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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

WoT If...Mat and Perrin Go to Shayol Ghul?


Mashiara Sedai

Welcome back to "WoT If?", Dragonmount's theory blog, and sorry for the delay. Since you've all been waiting, no doubt, with bated breath, let's jump right into today's topic: the three ta'veren, their connection to one another, and their purpose in the Last Battle.

 

Spoiler warning! This will include content from many books in the series, including Towers of Midnight, and speculation about A Memory of Light. Please read at your own risk.

 

Also, this WILL NOT contain spoilers from A Memory of Light's Prologue, Chapter 1, Chapter 2, or Chapter 11. Please refrain from posting any spoilers from A Memory of Light in the comments section. The A Memory of Light spoiler discussion board can be found here.

 

We know the fact that there are three ta'veren is significant. I think it shows that the Shadow is really strong and poised for victory during this Age. That is why the Wheel spun out the three together, to balance the evils within the world. And there are many threads connecting Rand, Mat, and Perrin together. They feel each others' need, they are able to see the others through an outside source with the swirling colors, and they have a similar sense of duty, knowing they must all be together during Tarmon Gai'don.

 

For the longest time, I've held the belief that Mat and Perrin would accompany Rand to Shayol Ghul, down into the mountain itself. There are a few pieces of evidence that support this theory, so I'll point them out quickly. First, three ta'veren together have more power than they do separately. Moiraine mentions this a couple of times in The Eye of the World. In this scene, she's speaking with Lord Agelmar, emphasizing why Rand, Mat, and Perrin must go to the Eye.

 

The Eye of the World

Chapter 47, "More Tales of the Wheel"

 

"Three ta'veren in one place are enough to change the life around them as surely as a whirlpool changes the path of a straw. When the place is the Eye of the World, the Pattern might weave even the Father of Lies into itself, and make him harmless again."

 

If three ta'veren can affect the Pattern around the Eye, and maybe weave the Dark One out, surely there's a greater chance of that if all three go to the Pit of Doom.

 

Another reason I think this is possible is because Mat and Perrin already have their functions for the Last Battle, and it will mirror their functions during the battle against the Seanchan in Falme. Mat and Perrin both fought, but not to the extent of being battle leaders. Mat sounded the Horn, Perrin held the Dragon Banner. During the Last Battle, they should have the same roles.

 

Naturally, there is some counter evidence to this too. The most obvious is the cover for A Memory of Light, which features Rand with Moiraine and Nynaeve going down into the Dark One's Bore. Of course, Mat and Perrin could be coming in right behind them.

 

Mat's battle reputation has increased significantly since Falme, so it may seem like a loss to the Light side if Mat doesn't help lead the battle. But there are still four of the Great Captains alive, plus Lan and the great Aiel leaders, and possibly even the Seanchan leaders—since all of them are considered to be like the Great Captains (Crossroads of Twilight, Chapter 23, "Ornaments"). I don't think Mat's presence would be missed too much.

 

If it's not possible for Mat and Perrin to be there physically, let's look at this from a different angle. Maybe their pull on each other is what the colored swirls are all about. I looked through the interview pages, and all major questions in regards to the colors was met with a RAFO. Brandon Sanderson answered one: that the colors can't be seen in Tel'aran'rhiod, or in the land of the Finns.

 

We know very little about this part of their connection, only that it increases as the books progress and now they can actually see what the others are doing. Maybe this will be how they stay together, through their ta'veren link. If Mat and Perrin do stay outside, they could go into a trance, being connected with Rand, though not actually inside the Bore with him.

 

And what of them seeing each other? This is such a strange aspect of their abilities. As I mentioned earlier, when the colors swirl, they see the others through an outside source—not from the others' eyes, or even from another person in the room. It's like an out-of-body experience; they float in the space in front of the others. Whose eyes are they seeing through? Is it the Pattern that picks a spot from which to see? Is the Pattern that all-encompassing? The Pattern, the fabric of reality, should have access to every aspect within the world, right?

 

Let's look at the first time Mat actually sees an image with the colors:

 

Crossroads of Twilight

Chapter 3, "A Fan of Colors"

 

Whenever he thought of Rand or Perrin, colors swirled in his head. A part of being ta’veren, he supposed. This time, he had not thought of either of his friends, but the colors had suddenly been there, a fan of a thousand rainbows. This time, they had almost formed an image, a vague impression that might have been a man and a woman seated on the ground facing one another.

 

And here's a more recent one, from when Tam tells Perrin he needs to go with the Aes Sedai:

 

Towers of Midnight

Chapter 29, "A Terrible Feeling"

 

The colors swirled. Rand walked the hallways of the Stone of Tear. His expression was dark. Dangerous.

 

This implies that Perrin's vision is moving with Rand, like a tracking shot. Most of the time, they dismiss the images, making them go away. If they didn't, would they stay connected for longer lengths of time?

 

It's been answered by Robert Jordan that souls cannot be split, so the out-of-body experiences they are having doesn't suggest that they are part of the same soul, able to view another third of their body.

 

But I'm sure the swirls of colors is the key in some way to the Light's triumph over the Shadow. Perhaps that's the true meaning of the prophecy, "the three shall be as one" (The Gathering Storm, Chapter 48, "Reading the Commentary").

 

That's all for this edition. Join me next week for an examination of whether Perrin and Faile will survive the Last Battle. Thanks for reading!



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You guys are a great group of posters. It makes me happy to see you here supporting my bloggers.

 

Mashi, the week before the AMOL release date would be New Year's. You can do that thread earlier if you don't want to do it that week.

 

I'm definitely keeping the Theory Blog around after the series is over, so no worries, guys!

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Hmm i always wondered if the 3 being one meant aiel, seanchan, and randlanders all being allies. I could be wrong though.

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Hmm i always wondered if the 3 being one meant aiel, seanchan, and randlanders all being allies. I could be wrong though.

 

I think that the Sea Folk would need to be represented in that group, too. I don't think they consider themselves Randlanders. They aren't as important to the story as the Aiel, but they are just as numerous, I believe.

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@Mashiara - That thread you mentioned where you made some predictions between KoD and TGS... can you share some of the theories you got wrong? Or give us a link?

 

I remember making a theory that seems totally outrageous now, though still technically possible I suppose. It was that Rand would lose the Last Battle (on purpose?), allowing the DO to break the Wheel of Time, and create linear-time, also eliminating the One Power, True Power, World of Dreams, Wolfbrothers, reincarnation, and everything supernatural; making Randland more like our world. My thought was that the way we live now IRL was exactly what the Dark One would want: easily divided, easily controlled, all the while believing that we still have choices.

 

I say it's outrageous now, because (1.) Veins of Gold made it perfectly clear that Rand has no intention of losing the Last Battle and (2.) the Dark One is not interested in "creating" anything, except as a means to destroy something else. He wants to negate all of existence, so a "linear-time" world seems unlikely.

 

And yes, the Sea Folk... they seem to have taken a back seat since TGS, We know their aptitude with weather. Makes me wonder if the Dark One is going to try to make the weather fatal near Shayol Ghul, and the Sea Folk channelers will be needed to stabilize it. There's another prediction for you.

 

I still think that Denzel must be lauging his a$$ off at us, him being the only person who's read it already and he knows which of our theories are bogus. I applaud the man for containing himself. I'm not sure I'd be able to.

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I always felt that the DO destroying Creation always depended on which Forsaken was Naeblis.... for example Moghedien believes that the DO will remake Creation, while Ishamael believes the DO will destroy Creation. I always thought that that was one of the reasons for the competition between Forsaken. As for this theory..... I think that they do not need to be right inside Shayol Ghul, just in the general location, and I think that would be important to come

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@Mashiara - That thread you mentioned where you made some predictions between KoD and TGS... can you share some of the theories you got wrong? Or give us a link?

 

I'd be too embarrassed to post most of it, but one thing I was convinced of was Moiraine's rescue from the Finns and her reappearance would be what solved Rand's inability to kill women. He would see that, though he thought he killed her, she was still alive, and that would give the peace he needed to do what needed to be done. I also thought Sharina Melloy would be in the circle with Nynaeve and Rand and Callandor. Another was that the Seanchan would settle into the Caralain Grass area north of Andor.

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youre taking the "three shall be one" out of context, the exact quote is this TGS ch 48

 

TGS ch 48 He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one

 

in my mind this is clearly about callandor and rand needing to be linked with 2 women to use it properly. nothing to do with mat or perrin or 3 taveren. in fact it makes me wonder if we've been too focused on lans potential death and not thought enough about if being linked to rand at the time will cost us Nyneave.

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Obviously we should not forget the context of Callandor, but it doesn't have to refer to the circle IMO.

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youre taking the "three shall be one" out of context, the exact quote is this TGS ch 48

 

TGS ch 48 He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one

 

in my mind this is clearly about callandor and rand needing to be linked with 2 women to use it properly. nothing to do with mat or perrin or 3 taveren. in fact it makes me wonder if we've been too focused on lans potential death and not thought enough about if being linked to rand at the time will cost us Nyneave.

i would agree that calendor is probably a part of the picture... but the "and" doesnt specifically mean that the 3=1 is a reference to linking... it could be rand+calendor, and mat and perrin... or some other combination...

 

tho, i should add that rand did have a blade of light in EotW, that wasnt calendor...

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The "and" suggests that both situations will happen simultaneously; so while "He" is holding the "blade of light," the "three shall be as one." I don't think that necessarily means the three also need to be holding (or using the Power through) the blade of light. That's why these riddles confuse us, and the scholars. Remember, even the Beldeine and the other Aes Sedai thought it meant the three Nations (Illian, Tear, Cairhien).

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The three becomes one thing is very interesting and a recurring feature of the books, everything seems to be threes and multiples of three! 3 ta'veren, Rand's 3 lovers, 9 impossible things ( a multiple of three) there will probably 3 female channelers at Shayol Ghul (Moiraine, Nynaeve, Egwene?) the number three will be a huge part of this.

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What if Rand using Calendor is what causes the 3 to be one.  I've alwasy thought that the swirling colors were caused from the wheel beginning to unravel around the three and that the color were cause by their specific patterns overlapping.  This led me to think that maybe the massive influx of power cause by Calendor will cause the pattern to unravel enough to allow their patterns to completly flow together, effectively becoming one single part of the pattern, causing some significant effect.  The idea is definitly not perfect and out there but I have learned from reading these books that sometimes thinking outside of the box is the only way you'd ever be able to predict these prophecies.

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