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algspkr

Aes Sedai and Rand

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I believe that Aes Sedai, like everyone else who opposes the shadow need to follow Rand.

 

I believe that Egwene once held this view, or at least something close to it based on her comment to Moiraine along the lines of: Rand must be free to effect the world. I believe that Cadsuane holds a similar view given the fact that she views her "purpose" as ensuring that Rand reaches Tarmon Gai'don (plus that laughter tears thing). At least some of the sworn sisters have this view, most notably the five Rand "holds in his hand", but I believe the first to come to this realization was Moiraine sometime between her oath in Rubidhean and Cairhaine, most likely when she learned of the break in the tower.

 

Any comments?

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I think it's interesting how totally focused on unifying the tower most Aes Sedai are. They seem to not even be aware of how close to Tarmon Gai'don they really are. Certaintly they are afraid, of the signs of the approaching battle yet they continue to concentrate on their own affairs.

 

Egwene needs to bring the tower down soon and swear herself and the rest of the Aes Sedai to Rand.

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Thats what i think the Seanchan assault will sevre to do. In reality the seeds are all in place. The Tower Aes Sedai hate Elaida, have come, or are coming to respect Egwene. All that is needed now is the catalyst to facilitate that join.

 

As for follow Rand... yes and no. They will we allies, i think, and he will command the overall alliance, but i doubt there will be any subservience happening.

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At the very least they need to be obediant to Rand and his advisors commands. No doubt some of those advisors will be Aes Sedai themselves.

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Thats what i think the Seanchan assault will sevre to do. In reality the seeds are all in place. The Tower Aes Sedai hate Elaida' date=' have come, or are coming to respect Egwene. All that is needed now is the catalyst to facilitate that join.

 

As for follow Rand... yes and no. They will we allies, i think, and he will command the overall alliance, but i doubt there will be any subservience happening.[/quote']

I never thought the majority would be subsevient to Rand, but those not close to Rand, Elayne included seem to believe that Rand should follow Egwene or Elaida, not the other way around.

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Yea Elaida (sp sorry?) thinks thats automatically here. Its Egwene guarenteed. Either mad at him because he killed/hurt Gawyn or got Elayne pregnant or something else alot is possible.

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I have to say here, I still consider the White Tower (once they mend it again) to be to most powerfull instrument of the Light by far.

Yes, the Seanchan Hordes and the Black Tower may be equally strong or even stronger but both their motivations are questionnable.

Also, the WT has already proven itself over and over again. Yes, they failed a lot too, but globally I think they've done very well.

I'd even say that in a lot of ways the WT could have done a much better job on a lot of things then Rand is doing. Of course, the tower broke and now, when it's needed the most, it's unable to deliver.

They could have forged a better coalition of the nations for example.

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I have to say here' date=' I still consider the White Tower (once they mend it again) to be to most powerfull instrument of the Light by far.

Yes, the Seanchan Hordes and the Black Tower may be equally strong or even stronger but both their motivations are questionnable.

Also, the WT has already proven itself over and over again. Yes, they failed a lot too, but globally I think they've done very well.

I'd even say that in a lot of ways the WT could have done a much better job on a lot of things then Rand is doing. Of course, the tower broke and now, when it's needed the most, it's unable to deliver.

They could have forged a better coalition of the nations for example.[/quote']

 

Nope, sorry but all they would have done is tried to keep Rand locked up and pull him out once in awhile to 'fulfill' known prophecies. The Car'a'can' wouldn't have happened, nor did they know about the coramoor. Who knows how much they would have cruxed things up if in their arrogance they kept him from doing as needs to be done?

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I'm really interested in finding out how they (Aes Sedai) could have forged a better coalition between the nations then Rand.

 

 

 

Considering all the obstacles Rand faces, he's done a mighty fine job.

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Don't forget part of Elaida's foretelling here (ACoS)

Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.

While I don't doubt he will face and know Egwene's (probably) anger, I believe Rand will not be affected by it. Egwene will yell, well probably not yell, at Rand for something, I would guess the sworn sisters, and he will ignore it or laugh or simply tell her to stop being so arrogent.

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WT is even less focused towards the Last Battle than the BT. The sole motivation of the BT (discounting Mazrim Taim and his power mad dreams) is to create warriers and killers to fight the shadow at the last battle.

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Nope, sorry but all they would have done is tried to keep Rand locked up and pull him out once in awhile to 'fulfill' known prophecies. The Car'a'can' wouldn't have happened, nor did they know about the coramoor. Who knows how much they would have cruxed things up if in their arrogance they kept him from doing as needs to be done?

Yep, I agree with this. They would've focussed too much on Rand. In a lot of ways the breaking of the WT enabled Rand to choose and follow his own path.

I'm really interested in finding out how they (Aes Sedai) could have forged a better coalition between the nations then Rand.

Well, what do you think would've happened if Rand, at a certain time wrote a note to one of the WT's and said: Hey, Sammael is in Illian, would you mind going after him. Suppose too, that the WT then sended 5 or 6 circles of 13 to Illian.

Or even if after Rand had killed the forsaken that had been holding up in a certain country, the WT could've send 'diplomats' to forge a union.

Aes Sedai, saying, sorry chaps, but Tarmon Gaidon is coming and we need to bundle our strength here. Everybody can keep a part of their independance but we need to stand as one. Oh, and the Dragon is the leader of the war. Wich nation would've ignored that, coming from the mouth of an Aes Sedai?

Definitly a whole lot better then Rand acting like a Tiran.

This is all speculation of course, it happened the way it did but that doesn't make a lot of Rand's actions good.

WT is even less focused towards the Last Battle than the BT.

Agreed, and it's one of their biggest faillures.

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My biggest problem with the WT is thier refusal to take part in the world outside Tar Valon.

Most AS spend thier lives inside Tar Valon, the most influential group of people in Randland and only one in fifty even knows what they look like. Look at thre Borderlands, the AS say that they are sworn to fight the shadow but every year they have to fight and die to keep the rest of Randland safe from the Blight. and never an AS in sight. even 10 Yellows could half the death toll. or 10 Greens could have done as much as 500 soldiers but they are all to busy being "Aes Sedai" to serve the world as thier name infers.

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The WT wouldn't have been able to do anything better than Rand simply because they're so ... Aes Sedai. Everything is their way or the highway. They do things the way they do things because they've always done them that way. That's why the need for the savior and why it needs to be someone like Rand who grew up at the back end of nowhere. The world needs someone who is not bound by any one tradition, who can see what needs to be done without having his vision clouded by the way things have always been done.

 

Which is not to say Rand has made every right decision just that there's a reason it's Rand. I don't think the Aes Sedai should follow or be obedient...they do need to realize that they can't pull the strings though.

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Well, what do you think would've happened if Rand, at a certain time wrote a note to one of the WT's and said: Hey, Sammael is in Illian, would you mind going after him. Suppose too, that the WT then sended 5 or 6 circles of 13 to Illian.

 

Well, the Aes Sedai DID know Sammael was in Illian, and did nothing. Valinde Nathenos was actively looking to Rand to drive him out.

 

Or even if after Rand had killed the forsaken that had been holding up in a certain country, the WT could've send 'diplomats' to forge a union.

Aes Sedai, saying, sorry chaps, but Tarmon Gaidon is coming and we need to bundle our strength here. Everybody can keep a part of their independance but we need to stand as one. Oh, and the Dragon is the leader of the war. Wich nation would've ignored that, coming from the mouth of an Aes Sedai?

 

The problem is that the Aes Sedai would have put their own additions into the negotiation which would have negated the purpose, more like then not.

 

As for which nation would have ignored it... likely all of them. Even the borderland nations are currently ignoring them, and they were the most fervent in following the lead of the Tower.

 

The fact is the Tower united would have tried to lead events, and that would have been disasterous, they too blinded by their desire to look mysterious to actually see what needed to be done. Rand needed the freedom, and he achieved alot more then they would have--for one, he started the Black Tower, and it now looks like he's going to achieve a peace with the Seanchan. He brought in the Aiel too. That right there represents as much as 11,000 channelers and 1.2 million soldiers... the best soldiers in the world, between the Aiel and the Seanchan.

 

The Tower is obselete. Sure, because of their training program sisters are of above average intelligence, education and will, but they are not gods.

 

Look at thre Borderlands, the AS say that they are sworn to fight the shadow but every year they have to fight and die to keep the rest of Randland safe from the Blight. and never an AS in sight. even 10 Yellows could half the death toll. or 10 Greens could have done as much as 500 soldiers but they are all to busy being "Aes Sedai" to serve the world as thier name infers.

 

True. I've always felt the Greens and Yellows should have permenant lodgings in the borderlands--in all the cities really. If each major city had a hospice/Aes Sedai embassy, each with say, four or five yellow sisters, and teams of herb healers not only would it do wonders for their image and increased their power and reach, it likely would have dramatically increased the amount of girls that went to be tested.

 

The fact is going all the way to Tar Valon for a girl between the age of 14 and 20 would be daunting.

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Guest Fire Lord

I agree with Luckers. The Aes Sedai look at you crossly if you mention the Black Ajah, I don't think they could have taken the initiative to go and remove Sammael or Rahvin from power, not with the awe (or perhaps fear?) they held the Forsaken in.

 

 

True. I've always felt the Greens and Yellows should have permenant lodgings in the borderlands--in all the cities really. If each major city had a hospice/Aes Sedai embassy, each with say, four or five yellow sisters, and teams of herb healers not only would it do wonders for their image and increased their power and reach, it likely would have dramatically increased the amount of girls that went to be tested.

 

Perhaps the rulers of those cities/countries would have seen it as more meddling from the Aes Sedai? (Despite the certain advantages of them being there).

In any case, the AS are too taken up with being AS, they could not have accomplished more than Rand (because of the reasons Luckers stated).

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