World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Zander?]

 

 

Well, answer me this: Do you think a scum player is more likely to "smudge" somebody, or to avoid a form of behavior which that player routinely criticizes as town?

I think it's far, far more likely they'd try to smudge someone without fully calculating out the repercussions, yes.

 

Not even a question.

 

 

Heh.  I don't think that's something we'll see eye-to-eye on.

 

I think a lot of players fail to recognize what is generically scummy behavior, but most have a few tells they look for.  The tells are often misguided, but for better or worse they are lodged in an individual's head as what scum do, and when they rand mafia they will be pretty self-conscious to avoid that sort of behavior.  But as town, especially when the "scum tell" amounts to jack, a player is liable to repeatedly break his own rule and never realize it.

 

 

I think most players have their town tells and their scum tells. I dont think that many players actually subconsciously use their scum tells while towning.   Maybe Im wrong but thats how I feel fwiw

[Cory Caboose]

 

@ BFG

 

I dislike that you say I go with the flow.

 

 

ISO's Besie and doesn't like how she's going with the flow

I can even pinpoint to the post that  probably formed this idea in the back of your mind.

 

 

Besie:

 

She seems to be going with the flow* a lot and a lot of her posts are not game related. She asks questions but don´t do anything with the answers. I have not played with her before so I can´t judge her from previous games so I don´t know why Zander is saying she is town. 

 

* many have had the same oppinion so it´s hard to say that this is purely negative. I have expressed some of the same thoughts.

 

 

I'm not going with the flow. I'm making my own deductions from my own ways of reasoning. The only way I'm going with the flow is in reading, understanding and agreeing with several people's arguments. Including you. Do you WANT me to make a very random list? My list differs conciderably from Pizza's. Many people are at different alignments when compared to Cory and Zander's, with the main being Shad, I believe. And you just went and moved Shad to null-town, so I don't see how that's a problem. The only other thing I did was to move Len quite a bit, and you could possibly have seen that as going with the flow. It was not. It was my thoughts about things he said early game. And once again, no. I'm not referring to the "secret info" that Cory saw and Zander apparently sees too. It's my own, and I actually added even more to Len's villa after his argument with Pizza, and Pizza's reasoning.

 

If you want to say that I'm sheeping (cause that's what go with the flow is!) then at least give proper examples. I'm NOT sheeping my top scum read. I'm not even sheeping my top town reads, except on Tina. Want me to stop going with the flow? Then I refuse to vote someone who I have no experience with and can see no reason for their negative alignment.

 

Another example is Dice.  I don't feel good on him. And he's towny for most people. Is that going with the flow too?

 

:/

 

 

 

Are you deepwolfing with Tina?

 

Cory, I liked Besie's reaction here earlier today. Particularly the reaction in spoilers, felt townie defensive more than anything else.

 

Be wary, kitty's got claws and we've seen them before.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/?p=3574925

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-54?do=findComment&comment=3575958

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-66?do=findComment&comment=3576279

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-55?do=findComment&comment=3575964

 

Of the reasons most people have of clearing her, her indignation is an extremely poor one. I'm gunning through the Mafia QT as well, but her getting a mixture of indignant and defensive when accused is pretty much how she reacted as scum toward Yates' pushes during diablo. Working through her ISO now with diablo and her tone in both games are identical even if the content is improved.

 

I have some thoughts already through about 20-30 (i guess) just skimming her filter this game but withholding for now until I finish.

[Zander?]

 

And don't give me the "oh you think you are special bit" because the reason why I have the reputation I do has nothing to do with me thinking I'm smarter than everyone else and has everything to do with the hours I pour into reading games, staying in the thread as much as humanly possible and sacrificing my mental health, sleep and social life in order to be as informed as humanly possible in a silly internet yelling game. I bleed for my team, and that's what people know about me. My town game is basically a nervous breakdown in slow motion.

 

You want to act like you deserve time or credence because you're mentally superior at making reads, that's not going to fly with me. A village is built with hard labor and brick-by-brick and for the most part you seem emotionally detached from the game and not at all interest or enthused in moving us further.

 

If I am wrong I need someone to show me why so I can re-assess. You can be that guy, but you have to actually start playing first.

 

This is the kind of post that makes me nervous I'm reading you wrong again. 

 

 

 

 

Im interested in hearing YOU explain this out further if you don't mind?

[Zander?]

 

Been napping now I'm off to dinner.

Before I do..

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

 

I feel like you are significantly less engaged in this game than in NBC.  I had to look back to remember you were even scum reading her.

 

 

 

Pot meet kettle imo.

[Cory Caboose]

for me its the attitude. Shes saying what she thinks, isnt backing down. see her little go with pizza. Theres been a couple of things where shes been uncertain but on the whole I think she is town. And when she speaks i hear BESIE. she sounds pretty normal.

 

Granted Ive played one game but I am basing that tone read off skype convos and the Band forum

 

I think this might be Cass in HoC all over again.

 

Her attitude and indignation and willingness to give people grief is something that was a crux element of her wolf game in Diablo and probably got her several town reads before she got peeked and Yates did her in.

 

I can see a lot of worlds where this game is a development of her wolf game.

 

The more I go through it she just seems... IDK, too composed? Too confident in the reads she is making? Most of her interactions with me have been coy little supplements of my posts and no challenge whatsoever. Like I said, she's either a natural or something else entirely.

 

Remember this would be her first game as a villager ever.

[Cory Caboose]

Besie

Nolder

Nikon

Shad
Tina

 

We have 11 alive now with one kill guided by us, so for all intents and purposes we should be able to resolve at least 5 slots before losing.

 

You get rid of the above, I think you win this game every time.

 

I am going to leave a Besie caveat as soon as I find what I said about Cass in HoC because I think it'll be a fun callback.

[Zander?]

Vote Count:

 

Pizza (7): Lenlo, Tina, Shad, Nikon, Blom, Zander, Cory

Tina (3): Sooh, Dice, Pizza

 

Not Voting: bfg, Nolder

 

With 12 players, 7 needed to lynch

 

That's a lynch !!

 

 

I generally think Lenlo is town and find Pizza's push scummy in a vacuum, but scum!Pizza would be pretty much throwing the game at this point if Lenlo's town, and I expect he's farsighted enough to not get caught up in an argument that will secure his death on N1.  Meh.

 

 

So did you actually think Pizza was throwing the game for his Scum team atp?  Cause I mean you did vote him after all.  Just wondering brother.....

[Nolder]

Cory you should ask each of us 5 which ONE other person in that 5 we'd like to kill.

Or something like that. The results could be telling I think

 

I will answer my own question and say...Tina.

I can't figure her out and it's bothering me.

I'd rather she were dead than anyone else on that list even the inactive guy tbh.

[Cory Caboose]

I FOUND IT AND I EDITED IT:

 

Like seriously if I die I think almost all the potential pressure on Besie will stop and I find that bothersome. Reminds me of when I tried to lynch Err in the WITD game before I got NKed and people kept clearing him for meh reasons until the game became borderline ~locked and people were forced to lynch him, or when I tried to lynch Cass in the HoC game and nobody bit until after she killed me.

 

Besie I am really sorry if I am misreading you but reading through you're firmly in my PoE and if worse comes to worse I have at least five players I think are more villagery than you with 11 alive.

 

So everyone: if you get to f3 please remember back to my posts and don't just wing a villager read on her because she can make abrasive posts and act "indignant". I think I have an okay feel of the situation and there's nothing she's done this game that she isn't capable of doing as a wolf. Just jot it down, you don't have to do anything about it now, just keep it somewhere because if Besie as a wolf and she wins I will be furious about it.

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

Cory you should ask each of us 5 which ONE other person in that 5 we'd like to kill.

Or something like that. The results could be telling I think

 

I will answer my own question and say...Tina.

I can't figure her out and it's bothering me.

I'd rather she were dead than anyone else on that list even the inactive guy tbh.

 

What do you think about Besie and Shad?

[Zander?]

 

Shad lets talk about something else before I call it a night,  Who is your top town and scum read and why?

You're my top town and I think it's shining more here than D1 of NBC because you haven't shown that level of conviction on a single target that you fake so well. I'm kind of torn on Pizza for the reasons I just gave, leery of Tina and Nolder's lack of many thoughts since they've actually read up in the game, would like to see what happens after the Christmas bustle fades before I pass much judgment because god knows I've barely been able to keep up with this game and I'm a lot more dedicated to doing so than most players.

 

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

Like as much detail about what you've thought about this game as possible.

 

I don't care what you think of their opinions being right/wrong or whatever, just want to know what's on the mental page you are keeping in your head for them.

[Cory Caboose]

It's okay Zander

 

He's just a wolf

[Zander?]

Zander

Dice

Lenlo

BLomBessie

Cory

Sooh

BFG

AskThePizzaGuy

Nikon

Tina

Nolder

 

glgl, I'm actually up to current content and should be able to maintain that pending this flu hitting me like a truck again.

 

 

No remote solid Scum reads.  Has Pizza in part green and later votes him.  Shad's a little more on the ball then this imo.

 

And I hate to throw this in but this is not the first AtE type post that's come from Shad.  Again man not calling you a liar just the more you mention it the more it seems like youre hiding behind it.

[dicetosser1]

noted cory

[Cory Caboose]

Honestly if I had three shots right now I'd take out Tina, Shad and Besie.

 

Besie or Nikon is probably the decision for the third but I think Besie has more equity to go deep. If Nikon is a wolf he's not getting far.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

I dont hate this but it seems your scummier leans are stemming more from PoE then really casing...is that a fair assessment Shad?

That's pretty fair.

 

 

 

Then you understand why this concerns me some right??!!

 

 

Not really, no.

 

 

Town Shad builds cases, like in Matrix against Lenlo.  I like to feel youre a bit more confident with your reads.  Though fwiw Im thinking that there MAY have been some similarities between this game and Nightmare for you in that regard.  I guess maybe Im not feeling #FULLTOWNSHAD atp is what Im getting at.

 

 

Fair enough.  #FULLTOWNSHAD is probably never going to show up to this party.  Me, my wife, and Ollie all have the flu, and frankly I've barely been able to keep up with the game let alone take charge of it.

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

If I had to pick one villager out of the five it'd probably be Nolder.

 

With that said, the gap between him and BFG/Zander/Lenlo/Dice/Sooh is large.

 

I believe in the line.

[Zander?]

I would shoot Pizza.  Backing off of Lenlo pretty well negated all the reasons I didn't think he would do what he was doing as scum.

 

But in the meantime, I'm itching to [v]Nolder[/v].

 

He was scrappy as hell throughout NBC, and if it left me with a scum lean on him for most of the game there was a thread of towniness to it that prevented him from ever getting mislynched.  I haven't felt any of that attitude here and it's starting to worry me.

 

tbf heres a reason for backing off Pizza.

 

Switch to Nol is interesting though.  Why Nol over the others in you Null Pile?

[BFG]

 

 

@ BFG

 

I dislike that you say I go with the flow.

 

 

 

 

 

ISO's Besie and doesn't like how she's going with the flow

I can even pinpoint to the post that  probably formed this idea in the back of your mind.

 

 

Besie:

 

She seems to be going with the flow* a lot and a lot of her posts are not game related. She asks questions but don´t do anything with the answers. I have not played with her before so I can´t judge her from previous games so I don´t know why Zander is saying she is town. 

 

* many have had the same oppinion so it´s hard to say that this is purely negative. I have expressed some of the same thoughts.

 

 

I'm not going with the flow. I'm making my own deductions from my own ways of reasoning. The only way I'm going with the flow is in reading, understanding and agreeing with several people's arguments. Including you. Do you WANT me to make a very random list? My list differs conciderably from Pizza's. Many people are at different alignments when compared to Cory and Zander's, with the main being Shad, I believe. And you just went and moved Shad to null-town, so I don't see how that's a problem. The only other thing I did was to move Len quite a bit, and you could possibly have seen that as going with the flow. It was not. It was my thoughts about things he said early game. And once again, no. I'm not referring to the "secret info" that Cory saw and Zander apparently sees too. It's my own, and I actually added even more to Len's villa after his argument with Pizza, and Pizza's reasoning.

 

If you want to say that I'm sheeping (cause that's what go with the flow is!) then at least give proper examples. I'm NOT sheeping my top scum read. I'm not even sheeping my top town reads, except on Tina. Want me to stop going with the flow? Then I refuse to vote someone who I have no experience with and can see no reason for their negative alignment.

 

Another example is Dice.  I don't feel good on him. And he's towny for most people. Is that going with the flow too?

 

:/

 

 

 

Are you deepwolfing with Tina?

 

Cory, I liked Besie's reaction here earlier today. Particularly the reaction in spoilers, felt townie defensive more than anything else.

 

 

Be wary, kitty's got claws and we've seen them before.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/?p=3574925

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-54?do=findComment&comment=3575958

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-66?do=findComment&comment=3576279

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-55?do=findComment&comment=3575964

 

Of the reasons most people have of clearing her, her indignation is an extremely poor one. I'm gunning through the Mafia QT as well, but her getting a mixture of indignant and defensive when accused is pretty much how she reacted as scum toward Yates' pushes during diablo. Working through her ISO now with diablo and her tone in both games are identical even if the content is improved.

 

I have some thoughts already through about 20-30 (i guess) just skimming her filter this game but withholding for now until I finish.

 

Lol it's not just that. Besie was pinging me in Diablo, far more so than Zander, and she isn't in this game. I'd argue that there's a difference between the posts you linked and the one above, in the one quoted from this game she's more defensive than combative. I can't argue that it means much, I haven't seen her town and players change a lot in their first few games. I'll probably ISO her tomorrow after Shad before commenting much more though.

 

And your posts are noted (as always <3)

[Zander?]

I'm going to take another alkaseltzer and watch some football, won't have my laptop with me.

 

Being sick is lame.

 

 

Do I need to keep quoting these or what?

 

 

lmklmk

[Cory Caboose]

Zander I think you've had enough

[BFG]

Really gone now :/

[Cory Caboose]

Bye BFG <3

[Zander?]

 

 

 

@ BFG

 

I dislike that you say I go with the flow.

 

 

 

 

ISO's Besie and doesn't like how she's going with the flow

I can even pinpoint to the post that  probably formed this idea in the back of your mind.

 

 

Besie:

 

She seems to be going with the flow* a lot and a lot of her posts are not game related. She asks questions but don´t do anything with the answers. I have not played with her before so I can´t judge her from previous games so I don´t know why Zander is saying she is town. 

 

* many have had the same oppinion so it´s hard to say that this is purely negative. I have expressed some of the same thoughts.

 

 

I'm not going with the flow. I'm making my own deductions from my own ways of reasoning. The only way I'm going with the flow is in reading, understanding and agreeing with several people's arguments. Including you. Do you WANT me to make a very random list? My list differs conciderably from Pizza's. Many people are at different alignments when compared to Cory and Zander's, with the main being Shad, I believe. And you just went and moved Shad to null-town, so I don't see how that's a problem. The only other thing I did was to move Len quite a bit, and you could possibly have seen that as going with the flow. It was not. It was my thoughts about things he said early game. And once again, no. I'm not referring to the "secret info" that Cory saw and Zander apparently sees too. It's my own, and I actually added even more to Len's villa after his argument with Pizza, and Pizza's reasoning.

 

If you want to say that I'm sheeping (cause that's what go with the flow is!) then at least give proper examples. I'm NOT sheeping my top scum read. I'm not even sheeping my top town reads, except on Tina. Want me to stop going with the flow? Then I refuse to vote someone who I have no experience with and can see no reason for their negative alignment.

 

Another example is Dice.  I don't feel good on him. And he's towny for most people. Is that going with the flow too?

 

:/

 

 

 

Are you deepwolfing with Tina?

 

Cory, I liked Besie's reaction here earlier today. Particularly the reaction in spoilers, felt townie defensive more than anything else.

 

 

Be wary, kitty's got claws and we've seen them before.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/?p=3574925

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-54?do=findComment&comment=3575958

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-66?do=findComment&comment=3576279

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96176-diablo-the-mafia-game/page-55?do=findComment&comment=3575964

 

Of the reasons most people have of clearing her, her indignation is an extremely poor one. I'm gunning through the Mafia QT as well, but her getting a mixture of indignant and defensive when accused is pretty much how she reacted as scum toward Yates' pushes during diablo. Working through her ISO now with diablo and her tone in both games are identical even if the content is improved.

 

I have some thoughts already through about 20-30 (i guess) just skimming her filter this game but withholding for now until I finish.

 

Lol it's not just that. Besie was pinging me in Diablo, far more so than Zander, and she isn't in this game. I'd argue that there's a difference between the posts you linked and the one above, in the one quoted from this game she's more defensive than combative. I can't argue that it means much, I haven't seen her town and players change a lot in their first few games. I'll probably ISO her tomorrow after Shad before commenting much more though.

 

And your posts are noted (as always <3)

 

 

???