World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Cory Caboose]

It's not a part of Nikon's alignment, it just is something probably easy to focus on as a wolf.

 

What bothers me is the vote. I don't understand his spatial relation to the thread. He's on page 50, he's not sure about Lenlo/Pizza.

 

The game is on page 90 and there's a Pizza wagon at ~4 votes.

 

He cites his reads up to 50 (which are mixed) and then votes Pizza and he's gone.

[Cory Caboose]

We'll know who is dead Pral :P

[Cory Caboose]

Hi Cory.

 

Why shouldn't I lynch you tomorrow assuming you don't get shot by Pizza?

[Cory Caboose]

It's not a part of Nikon's alignment, it just is something probably easy to focus on as a wolf.

 

What bothers me is the vote. I don't understand his spatial relation to the thread. He's on page 50, he's not sure about Lenlo/Pizza.

 

The game is on page 90 and there's a Pizza wagon at ~4 votes.

 

He cites his reads up to 50 (which are mixed) and then votes Pizza and he's gone.

 

And yes it seems sort of obvious and someone can go "TWTBAW!"

 

But I don't think like that, and BFG seems to indicate that Nikon's wolfy as a wolf.

 

And what he did was wolfy af.

[Niniel]

I have only read the last pages quick so I won't comment much on it now but I want to adress Sooh's vote on me again. It was totally OMGUS after I voted her, nothing else. There were no reasons stated. "Trending down" is not a reason.

[Niniel]

 

Hi Cory.

 

 

Why shouldn't I lynch you tomorrow assuming you don't get shot by Pizza?

I'm town. That's why. Maybe I can be of more use tomorrow when I know two alignments.

[Sooh]

Alright. I've only looked at games here in the BT so far, and what I've found is that I town read Dice in Mass effect when he was scum, and I also read him town in Cliche mafia until Cory came in and cleared everything up for me. I wasn't able to find a good reasoning for my town read of Dice in Cliche, but I suspect that's because I was a SK in that game and didn't really need to substantiate my reads.

 

Need more examples?

[Zander?]

 

Made it to page 40 then quick skimmed to 50 but really getting tired after 14.5 hours of work-commute home-Mafia Catchup...

 

I believe I saw an email that there was a deadline and think it's tomorrow so at least want to get something in and for now I'll hope my reads so far are correct [v]PIZZA[/v]

 

Will try to continue and catch up tomorrow but will be at work until 5:00ish PST and think the deadline is somewhere around then.

 

 

 

Made it to page 40 then quick skimmed to 50 but really getting tired after 14.5 hours of work-commute home-Mafia Catchup...

 

I believe I saw an email that there was a deadline and think it's tomorrow so at least want to get something in and for now I'll hope my reads so far are correct [v]PIZZA[/v]

 

Will try to continue and catch up tomorrow but will be at work until 5:00ish PST and think the deadline is somewhere around then.

 

 

we need a reads list brother!!!!

 

 

 

 

Nikon.. Got an email...?

 

Huh what now? Am I missing something about the internet?

 

im pretty sure i know what he means.  Would you rather wait for him to explain?

 

 

 

I auto-follow topics I reply to, replies get forwarded to my email and pop up on the computer screen if I'm on my desktop/laptop.  Don't read them in full but will usually catch a glimpse when skimming through or if it pops up while I'm reading to catch up.  Also how I saw your question (while deleting the MANY emails which filled my inbox just from this game alone).  And now off to sleep, hope to catch up tomorrow cause I know there will be a ton more to read by the time I get home.

 

 

 

No i'm confused. I've also had a few drinks and am phone posting from bed so it's likely just me and lolcory

 

 

When you set notifications for threads on DM theres an option that DM will send you an email to alert you if someone posted in one of the threads you're following.  I think that's what it is imo.

 

 

And I know this is going to seem weird coming from me

 

But Zander's step-in bothers me.

 

I still think he's >>>> villager, but I can't help thinking it seems just sort of convenient.

 

Nikon literally only answers me (like somebody told him to clarify) and ignores Zander afterwards.

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to lynch bad posters, I'm trying to lynch wolves.

 

 

Sometimes they are one in the same brother!!!!!

 

 

 

really wanna see more from the low poster especially Nikon cause I have nothing to work with on him.

 

 

Gonna do a reads list before ISO's and see if anything changes plus i have to many null's not enough info to go on arp:

 

Besie- ive explained my thoughts on her numerous times. But is my strongest read thus far.

 

Cory- Though I know Cory is fully capable of fooling me I dont think he is atp.  Ive liked most of his posts and also feel when he backed off a solid Town read of me prolly came from Town!Cory cause he knows if he was a Wolf he could just pocket me.

 

Shad-  Not a lot to go on but since he's been back on today he's making some insightful posts and thoughts. 

BFG- Havent seen some of the stuff im looking for yet but its early and shes engaged more then her start last game but not at the point of what im looking for yet.

 

Lenlo- Has made some posts I liked (concerning Dice for example and Im agreeing with some of his thoughts on Pizza as well) .  He's made some comments and posts that really pinged me and looked bad/strange.  Big reason he's not lower though is the fact he built very quickly concerns me greatly.

 

Sooh-  ALWAYS read her wrong.  Have liked her sass but again easy to fake.  Couple things she said have made me wonder though...

 

Dice- I do tend to read Dice better as the game goes on.  But and again sorry if Im wrong brother but some of his responses seem over the top/over reacting to me.  And it feels like he's stretching as well at some points.  I know Dice pretty well away from the game to know he can get annoyed easy and can be stubborn.  So I wanna see how he comes back in but i cat really shake the stuff Ive mentioned from him.

 

Pizza- I know what a great player he is and can just be doing stuff that I don't get/understand from a Town!Pizza mindset but that early clear of me and Cory does not sit right with me.  Almost like a TMI thing and same with some of the comments he made concerning Lenlo.  I dunno it just seems weird.  Also not seeing the wordy posts I seen from him in Nightmare

 

Need More.

 

 

Tina- Never been able to read her right.  Wanna gather more info from others on her.

Nikon- Nothing to go on with both content and Meta.

Nolder- Not much to go on yet.

 

 

Anyone else starting to think Nikon's lack of posting stems from randing wolf???

 

 

Still feel the same brother?

[Zander?]

FWIW Zander, I'm already bored by this task.

 

 

Thank you Soohray!!!!!!

[Cory Caboose]

Do I think you are incapable of lightly bussing a partner as a wolf?

 

...

 

No?

 

You're Zander FFS.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Voting is something I need to work on, but I vote if I want to lynch somebody, the switch that lets people vote to pressure hasn't been made in my brain yet.

Reply

 

Yeah, I know. This is so minor, not really trying to criticize you for it or say what you're doing is wrong, because you can and should play how you want to play. Basically I'm just trying to convince you of my position on this one. Sometimes I vote in a way I don't want to, or don't think is the strongest move, because teamwork slash "the tally situation" combine to force me to do so. It's outside your comfort zone, and I won't badger you about it. But I think we would have gained more info today had Tina's wagon been closer to hammer to make it at least a little bit likely that someone besides me dies D1. Mafia do well when the outcome of the lynch is not in doubt.

 

It would have helped you learn more about someone you weren't sure about. You can always move that vote later, and specifically request that no one hammers while you are away. Would be a good compromise?

 

Just suggestion from (probable) teammate, you decide if it's a good idea for future stuffs.

 

[Niniel]

I know that you are not asking me but I find it hard to judge someone that isn't even caught up on the game.

[Cory Caboose]

You're not on my radar anyway. It's a tinfoil I probably won't bother to investigate until I see Nikon resolved which will probably happen pre-d3 if God is willing through a variety of means.

[Zander?]

Do I think you are incapable of lightly bussing a partner as a wolf?

 

...

 

No?

 

You're Zander FFS.

 

 

EXACTLY I DONT DO ANYTHING LIGHTLY OR HALF ASSED....ITS ALL OR NOT. lololololololololol

 

 

Bellicheat- Lock Cleared Alanna Hard Bussed Talya

Matrix- Lock Cleared you. Really Hard Bussed Len and Hard Bussed Dice.

 

ofc i'm capable of it but do you honestly feel that its likely?

[Sooh]

You're not on my radar anyway. It's a tinfoil I probably won't bother to investigate until I see Nikon resolved which will probably happen pre-d3 if God is willing through a variety of means.

Is this for Zander?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

Dead people - as far as possible - please post in Blue - so it is easy to differentiate during night .

Did not see this.

 

That's.... difficult. And possibly very visually distracting.

 

I really don't want to do that.

 

 

Alright, I am just experimenting here. Post normally then ...I think it would be fine for people to know who is dead and who isn't. 

 

 

You're awesome, Pral.

 

We androids can't post during Day, and whoever just died will be the thing most folks will be concerned with day or night. I think peeps will be up to speed on it.

 

I could post *dead* at the top of all my posts and that would be far less effort, formatting wise, and much less distracting.

 

I don't think even that much will be necessary tbqh

[Cory Caboose]

ofc i'm capable of it but do you honestly feel that its likely?

 

I think it's possible. Do I think it's likely? Considering what I just said, you should have your answer in general.

Sooh: yes, that was at Z.

[Cory Caboose]

Oh I missed the androids can only post during night thing.

That's interesting.

[Zander?]

I see that I missed the whole day. Pizza being town makes me need to re-think my list. If I'm alive that is. I would still suggest killing Sooh.

 

 

Is that all for now?

[Zander?]

Alright. I've only looked at games here in the BT so far, and what I've found is that I town read Dice in Mass effect when he was scum, and I also read him town in Cliche mafia until Cory came in and cleared everything up for me. I wasn't able to find a good reasoning for my town read of Dice in Cliche, but I suspect that's because I was a SK in that game and didn't really need to substantiate my reads.

 

Need more examples?

 

 

You said mulitple times I was just curious   Was looking for some more solid intel from it.

[Zander?]

 

 

Hi Cory.

 

Why shouldn't I lynch you tomorrow assuming you don't get shot by Pizza?

I'm town. That's why. Maybe I can be of more use tomorrow when I know two alignments.

 

 

 

I know this is gonna sound stupid but for some reason when I read Tina's response it read to me like her response was a question and not a statement.

 

lololololololol

[Zander?]

 

ofc i'm capable of it but do you honestly feel that its likely?

 

I think it's possible. Do I think it's likely? Considering what I just said, you should have your answer in general.

Sooh: yes, that was at Z.

 

 

 

Fair enough.

[Sooh]

 

Alright. I've only looked at games here in the BT so far, and what I've found is that I town read Dice in Mass effect when he was scum, and I also read him town in Cliche mafia until Cory came in and cleared everything up for me. I wasn't able to find a good reasoning for my town read of Dice in Cliche, but I suspect that's because I was a SK in that game and didn't really need to substantiate my reads.

 

Need more examples?

 

 

You said mulitple times I was just curious   Was looking for some more solid intel from it.

 

I don't know that I can give you any. Cory talks about Dice as someone who hides when he's mafia and strolls along leisurely when he's not. I've tried to look for that, but so far I haven't been very successful in my endeavors to read Dice. I think he's hiding and he's not, I think he's just posting what's in his head with nothing concealed and he's scum. It's not a read I can be any sort of confident on currently. 

[dicetosser1]

Tina

 

null-mafia

 

TLDR: Ugh, the worst thing is the vote thing that Pizza brought up, but given her recognition of voting 'patterns' early game I'm wondering if it's more likely to be subconscious from town rather than from mafia. She's done 'work' for herself, not under pressure. But I'm not seeing sustained interest in solving yet. she's not spending time in thread talking to people (but I don't remember this from PF either, so it's not necessarily scummy). Her responses to people seem fine, but generally /meh I don't have the experience to know if she ramps up or not in later phases and know that she's been lynched Day 1 as town before and sussed, if not lynched as mafia day 1. No idea which this is.

 

And as much as I hate to say it, there are people I feel significantly better about than Tina, and that plays into this read

 

 

 

Can't remember a lot from her and sort of feel she's been POE'd into being suspicious rather than anything else. Possibly odd approach to Cory.

 

 

Votes Dice (joke) seems relaxed on thread early. Happy to be playing, but wary of the catch-up involved (I don't think this ever gets mentioned again which is a slight bonus)

 

On reread I like her post on Lenlo, I like that she's looking at his actions and not jumping on the mechanics talk with the rest of us. I also don't hate the early read on Dice, or the way it's given.

 

Responds to Cory directly saying he's wrong and she'll probe it (hopefully)

 

Doesn't like Pizzas comment about her given that he followed her onto Lenlo...

 

Doesn't understand Shad's comment about no NK? And I'm pretty sure she follows this up a couple of times

 

Responds to Lenlo and holds her position

 

I need to look at this with context on reread (which probably won't happen before deadline). She responds to someone asking why 'Lenlo pushing Dice as a suspect without voting' would be scummy with 'because she's seen mafia do that. That's an obvious reply that I love and will make me look sideways at whoever asked it. She doesn't like Pizza's tunnel.

 

From that initial list she seems to have Zander as town, Cory as maybe town, Dice as town, uneasy about Sooh and everyone else is some sort of null, unsure, need to ISO.

 

ISO's Sooh and doesn't like that she's null on so many players, this is consistent with her reasoning for not liking me this game

 

ISO's Besie and doesn't like how she's going with the flow

 

Leaves me in my own category XD

 

Nolder's null

 

There's the unvote off Lenlo, while finding Soon scummy and not having looked further into Lenlo/Pizza which reads oddly. It's a little WIFOMy but given Tina's preoccupation with votes and nudges early game, I think she'd be more self aware if mafia, but I don't think I'd be happy to clear her for this.

 

There are a number of people who seem to be reading Tina based off how she 'normally' reads them, I don't know what to make of this, part of me is doing the same wrt how she's acting towards Cory, but I don't really like the argument.

 

Znder reacts to her post on me and Besie saying there are people he thinks are scummier. I didn't really understand this at the time and I don't now, especially given that he 'likes' Nolder list for lack of consensus

 

Shad feels into the game and not trying to 'make' things scummy, leans town

 

Still hasn't read Lenlo-Pizza

 

Concludes:

 

Town: Tina, Cory, Sander, Dice (from early posts)

Null-town: Shad

Null: Nikon, BFG, Nolder

Null-mafia: Besie

Mafia: Sooh, Lenlo, Pizza

 

Given she still hasn't re-read Pizza/Lenlo I'm not sure how to feel about her putting them in her worst category.

 

"Right now I think Lenlo's posts are more scummy and Pizza's behaviour is more scummy" don't hate this though.

 

Responds to Lenlo expanding on her thoughts on him and Lenlo. Doesn't understand Pizza's reasoning on her, sort of understands his thoughts on Shad.

 

Votes Pizza for bad reasoning on her

 

Asks Sooh if her vote on Tina is OMGUS?

 

She responds to my 'list' sort of neutrally. My reasons for Tina being at the bottom are fairly poor and I'd expect a more argumentative response to it. I can't say it's meta based off one game, but the reasons for lynching her in PF were awful-none existent (with hindsight) and I'm not seeing that same response here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like as many people as possible to do the following for me:

 

In order from likeliest town -> scum list the follow four players:

 

Tina

Nikon

Shad

Pizza

Tina

Shad/Nikon

Pizza

 

Tina can you explain the positioning of Shad/Nikon on this list?

 

Sooh (in particular) and Dice can you explain/expand your reasons for voting Tina here. Dice, what's missing? Sooh I genuinely can't remember your reason for voting :/

 

 

I said this to cory too    whats missing is the Tina angle questions where u gotta look at it for a minute to figure them out.

[BFG]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96361-worlds-end-mafia-n1-the-old-familiar/page-97?do=findComment&comment=3584335

 

Post 1924

 

"Cory is a townie

Nolder is a townie

Zander is a townie

Pizza is a townie

Besie is a townie

BFG is a townie

Lenlo is a townie

Dice is a townie

 

That's why Tina is a scum."

 

(quoted portion)

 

Deepwolf candidates from that list?

 

 

 

 

Cory- early game enthusiasm of the specific sort I needed, plus the sabotage comment. Why that's always townie is because if Cory is a scum, he knows for a fact that I'm not a scum, and his first reaction to me threatening to shoot Zander because he's not villaging properly is to call it sabotage. That's not what a scumbag says there. Even if Zander is his partner. There's no way Cory-scum dissuades me from that shot, ever, even if Zander was his partner, especially not by using that reasoning. That's not a scum reason for trying to chastise that behavior, it's always townie and it is currently the reason why he's voting for me, and I understand that, because that behavior (my threatening Zander in that precise manner) is seen by Cory to be anti-town, and if there's doubt in Cory's mind about me, he's going to lynch the anti-town behavior.

 

Cory is wrong because Anti-town behavior is not scum behavior, it's against the town team in his opinion and mine, but in MY POSITION, I cannot allow myself to be the lynch and I have to attempt to persuade Zander not to lynch me, and I can't because he stonewalled me and stopped asking me solving questions. He asked a couple when he was catching up but when he was fully caught up, which is what I was waiting for, he did not pursue any further questions, and there's not a damned thing I can possibly do as his teammate to change his mind, he needs to see the flip first. That's bad for the reasons I told to his face, and he's letting me down.

 

It wasn't an idle threat but it was me doing what I could to affect the outcome.

 

My questions about his alignment because he was active but not pressing his suspects that hard disappeared in his later posts. The tack he's taken on me is so much more dangerous and straightforward than so many options he had available to him as a scumbag in his position of being town-read so much with an easy D1 lynch in his pocket.

 

Nolder's leans list looks outdated to me due to missing information, the kind you'd get from coming from a position of not being in the know and trying to get to the same page everyone else is. That kind of piecemeal information leans list is harder to fake as a scum and it rarely occurs to a scum to have such a list.

 

Zander has a responsibility to the scum team and should in no way be afraid of pretending to ask me solving questions, but it's possible(?).... it's less likely when the alternative is I shoot him tonight. He's letting me down in a big way by hiding in fear of the big scary pizza monster by saying to me that he's afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind, so he's gotta kill me because I'm a wolf lean. Killing pizza without a fair trial when you've got me on the witness stand and you're allowed to ask me questions is bad prosecution, period. That lesson needs to be learned for future games. He didn't budge from his position under threat, which he really should have if he's a townie, but almost undoubtedly would have budged if he were scum. I had questions about his alignment from his poor prosecution which read differently from the last game, but he's got balls of steel or is deliberately sabotaging his scum team today by not prosecuting me properly and therefore being en prise for no reason when he was being universally town-read again, even by the person he was trying to lynch.

 

I'm a townie because that's what I rolled. And I demonstrated that all round. It's not being listened to because big scary pizza monster might live for one more day. Thanks for the compliment but this is a self-inflicted wound. I towned and it wasn't exactly what it was in the previous game, and I'm being lynched, as I predicted, by Cory, for that exact reason that I predicted.

 

I am aware of how people react to my posts and I still made them.

 

Besie was a town lean, but I think there's little or no risk for Besie to put me at L-1, because she's not under a ton of suspicion. I don't know Besie, so this one is a little harder to say is a lock. But I'd not shoot her tonight if I died. If Besie instead lynches Tina and Tina is a scum, Besie can be blue until final 3.

 

I have repeatedly and in detail explained why Lenlo looked so godawful to me and that reversed, and it's very specific and very strong. And it's not bullshit. And it's really unlikely to be wrong.

 

Dice is voting where the PoE should be. Dice can be the deepwolf, but he's not going to survive the whole game if he lynches his not-deep wolves day one and then is never the murder or the retaliatory night lynch. I also went over Dice before and I'll do it again.

 

Sooh is voting where the PoE should be. I still don't trust her because her leans and votes have been opposite to mine most of the game. Lean on Lenlo started wrong and ended up right too quickly, imo. Seems reluctant to lynch Shad. If Tina is town and Shad is scum you must lynch Sooh. Sooh voting where the PoE should be isn't clearing for her the way it is for Dice because she's also under suspicion and she doesn't have a lot of choice, if she lynches me today she always dies.

 

Nikon is null-POE. I don't trust him, but I need more time to read him.

 

Shad is bad for the reasons that are subtle but have been noticed by not just me.

 

Tina is bad because of that hard unvote and no real pushing. Lenlo was going to look bizarre early game for what he was doing, that was an easy thing for a wolf to attack. Tina's suspects weren't getting pushed and her vote also vanished from Lenlo when the wagon didn't look like it was going that way.

 

I can and did thoroughly and at length explain my unvote, and it's never a reason that comes from Pizza-scum.

 

Tina's was never explained and makes no sense from a villaging perspective.

 

 

From the cited post.

 

Which aspects of my thinking were wrong?

 

Don't just sheep me. I gave my reads. Which ones are the most solid? Which ones would you pick at and go no, pizza.... that's wrong because raisins.

 

I didn't get to BFG because I was spitting this out on the fly. I have her as a town lean.

 

I want input because follow the leader is how scums hide. It's like when a mason or detective claims and then everyone follows that person. Right or wrong it's easy for scum to hide there.

 

So in particular, my top suspects, my nulls, and yes even my villagers, should be telling me where I'm wrong, and where the scums are.

 

I may still do my own thing if I am convinced I did a good job with my reads.

Cory is extremely likely town. There are several things I look for on his mafia game, and I haven't seen any. He's hit a town tell that I haven't seen him fake in 2? years of watching him play, I can elaborate if and when its necessary, but I don't think it is right now.

 

Zander is likely town, but I don't read him well period. At the moment he's my deep wolf candidate.

 

Besie is likely town. Still haven't ISO'd her, but specifically as mafia almost all her reads were associated and I haven't seen anything like that. She was extremely apologetic for Zander, but that might be specific to them being hydr'd together. I also really like her reaction to what she thought I said earlier.

 

Sooh is likely town. I can't explain it well, I've felt in sync with her pretty much all game, there were early game moments when I felt she wasn't watching what she was saying. I can't say I read her well, we haven't played many games together and I've never played with her when she was mafia.

 

Lenlo is likely town. His response to your argument chiefly, his approach to the game mechanics. He does suffer from being absent recently

 

Dice is likely town. I still can't be confident on this one and I cannot describe how much that frustrates me. Dice should be my strongest read in every game, this game he isn't. He's someone I'll be ISOing tonight.

 

 

 

 

 

That leaves me with Nolder, Tina, Nikon and Shad. I can't say I find any particularly scummy and that bothers me.

 

I'm probably going to spend some time looking at them tonight.

 

Bluntly I don't really see what Tina's done that's so scummy, although I'd like her to answer my question from her ISO earlier.

 

Nikon is worrying, I can see that catch up coming from either alignment, but the vote is 'off'

 

Shad is also tricky, he's had 3 games as mafia and acted differently in each. Bluntly, although I couldn't say anything at the time the chief reason I 'caught' him in Grimmm was because of how differently he was acting between that game and Matrix, lol.

 

Nolder, the chief thing in is favour is his non-consensus list, but I think he can do that as either alignment.

 

 

 

Sorry, at this point the above isn't much use. I need to reread and ISO. I'm probably going to carry on with ISO's tonight and will reread at the start of Day 2.