World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was going to ask why you hammered like 12 hours before deadline but it doesn't matter

 

Cory

 

Quote unrelated.

 

Remember when I said I wanted you to vote for Tina because I would be dead before you got back?

 

If there's one thing that is predictable it is group behavior. An individual player might surprise me but I've got group behavior down pat.

 

That's why I'm so difficult to catch as a wolf.

 

Please listen to me when I call what the group is going to do before they do it.

[Sooh]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96361-worlds-end-mafia-n1-the-old-familiar/page-97?do=findComment&comment=3584335

 

Post 1924

 

"Cory is a townie

Nolder is a townie

Zander is a townie

Pizza is a townie

Besie is a townie

BFG is a townie

Lenlo is a townie

Dice is a townie

 

That's why Tina is a scum."

 

(quoted portion)

 

Deepwolf candidates from that list?

 

 

 

 

Cory- early game enthusiasm of the specific sort I needed, plus the sabotage comment. Why that's always townie is because if Cory is a scum, he knows for a fact that I'm not a scum, and his first reaction to me threatening to shoot Zander because he's not villaging properly is to call it sabotage. That's not what a scumbag says there. Even if Zander is his partner. There's no way Cory-scum dissuades me from that shot, ever, even if Zander was his partner, especially not by using that reasoning. That's not a scum reason for trying to chastise that behavior, it's always townie and it is currently the reason why he's voting for me, and I understand that, because that behavior (my threatening Zander in that precise manner) is seen by Cory to be anti-town, and if there's doubt in Cory's mind about me, he's going to lynch the anti-town behavior.

 

Cory is wrong because Anti-town behavior is not scum behavior, it's against the town team in his opinion and mine, but in MY POSITION, I cannot allow myself to be the lynch and I have to attempt to persuade Zander not to lynch me, and I can't because he stonewalled me and stopped asking me solving questions. He asked a couple when he was catching up but when he was fully caught up, which is what I was waiting for, he did not pursue any further questions, and there's not a damned thing I can possibly do as his teammate to change his mind, he needs to see the flip first. That's bad for the reasons I told to his face, and he's letting me down.

 

It wasn't an idle threat but it was me doing what I could to affect the outcome.

 

My questions about his alignment because he was active but not pressing his suspects that hard disappeared in his later posts. The tack he's taken on me is so much more dangerous and straightforward than so many options he had available to him as a scumbag in his position of being town-read so much with an easy D1 lynch in his pocket.

 

Nolder's leans list looks outdated to me due to missing information, the kind you'd get from coming from a position of not being in the know and trying to get to the same page everyone else is. That kind of piecemeal information leans list is harder to fake as a scum and it rarely occurs to a scum to have such a list.

 

Zander has a responsibility to the scum team and should in no way be afraid of pretending to ask me solving questions, but it's possible(?).... it's less likely when the alternative is I shoot him tonight. He's letting me down in a big way by hiding in fear of the big scary pizza monster by saying to me that he's afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind, so he's gotta kill me because I'm a wolf lean. Killing pizza without a fair trial when you've got me on the witness stand and you're allowed to ask me questions is bad prosecution, period. That lesson needs to be learned for future games. He didn't budge from his position under threat, which he really should have if he's a townie, but almost undoubtedly would have budged if he were scum. I had questions about his alignment from his poor prosecution which read differently from the last game, but he's got balls of steel or is deliberately sabotaging his scum team today by not prosecuting me properly and therefore being en prise for no reason when he was being universally town-read again, even by the person he was trying to lynch.

 

I'm a townie because that's what I rolled. And I demonstrated that all round. It's not being listened to because big scary pizza monster might live for one more day. Thanks for the compliment but this is a self-inflicted wound. I towned and it wasn't exactly what it was in the previous game, and I'm being lynched, as I predicted, by Cory, for that exact reason that I predicted.

 

I am aware of how people react to my posts and I still made them.

 

Besie was a town lean, but I think there's little or no risk for Besie to put me at L-1, because she's not under a ton of suspicion. I don't know Besie, so this one is a little harder to say is a lock. But I'd not shoot her tonight if I died. If Besie instead lynches Tina and Tina is a scum, Besie can be blue until final 3.

 

I have repeatedly and in detail explained why Lenlo looked so godawful to me and that reversed, and it's very specific and very strong. And it's not bullshit. And it's really unlikely to be wrong.

 

Dice is voting where the PoE should be. Dice can be the deepwolf, but he's not going to survive the whole game if he lynches his not-deep wolves day one and then is never the murder or the retaliatory night lynch. I also went over Dice before and I'll do it again.

 

Sooh is voting where the PoE should be. I still don't trust her because her leans and votes have been opposite to mine most of the game. Lean on Lenlo started wrong and ended up right too quickly, imo. Seems reluctant to lynch Shad. If Tina is town and Shad is scum you must lynch Sooh. Sooh voting where the PoE should be isn't clearing for her the way it is for Dice because she's also under suspicion and she doesn't have a lot of choice, if she lynches me today she always dies.

 

Nikon is null-POE. I don't trust him, but I need more time to read him.

 

Shad is bad for the reasons that are subtle but have been noticed by not just me.

 

Tina is bad because of that hard unvote and no real pushing. Lenlo was going to look bizarre early game for what he was doing, that was an easy thing for a wolf to attack. Tina's suspects weren't getting pushed and her vote also vanished from Lenlo when the wagon didn't look like it was going that way.

 

I can and did thoroughly and at length explain my unvote, and it's never a reason that comes from Pizza-scum.

 

Tina's was never explained and makes no sense from a villaging perspective.

 

 

From the cited post.

 

Which aspects of my thinking were wrong?

 

Don't just sheep me. I gave my reads. Which ones are the most solid? Which ones would you pick at and go no, pizza.... that's wrong because raisins.

 

I didn't get to BFG because I was spitting this out on the fly. I have her as a town lean.

 

I want input because follow the leader is how scums hide. It's like when a mason or detective claims and then everyone follows that person. Right or wrong it's easy for scum to hide there.

 

So in particular, my top suspects, my nulls, and yes even my villagers, should be telling me where I'm wrong, and where the scums are.

 

I may still do my own thing if I am convinced I did a good job with my reads.

I think BFG is most definitely town. She didn't vote before work because she thought she'd have time to come back and do just that. She seemed to want to discuss more before making up her mind. Comfortable with her in town reads. 

 

Zander probably also definitely town. Though he has had that "I'm going to read someone scum and nobody is going to persuade me other wise"-attitude that I've seen before. He pretty much does that regardless of alignment though, so I still think he's town.

 

Cory I want to believe is town. There's the nagging hammer which will always and forever be a WIFOM reason to suss someone. Then there's the hedging reads on Tina and also partially on Dice and myself. He has had problems pinning us down which could mean he needs to hold mislynch options open. Then again, that's also just WIFOM. Cory is a difficult one for me. 

 

Lenlo I have no clue about. I have him as town lean, but he was let off the hook by Pizza earlier in game and hasn't really done much since. While I am fairly confident he's town there's always that off chance. 

 

Besie is better when she's doing real time interaction. I have a slight town read of her right now from our short real time interaction earlier. A bunch of what she pulls out when she's catching up in the game strikes me as far fetched and reaching for reasons, but that might also lead her to scum. It just looks weird to me when I read it. 

 

Dice is also tricky, but I want to believe he's town for taking a stance and defending it. He has fooled me multiple times, so what do I know. I wouldn't look there for wolf today at least.

 

Shad has been very not Shad this game. He was fine early on, but I'm missing the Shad who does cases and lays out his thought process for me. 

 

Tina has been slightly scummier than the rest to me, which is not really news. I constantly suspect her in mafia. 

 

Nolder has also not been a huge presence this game. I think he has been on the sideline, coming in with commentary when he sees fit. 

 

Nikon could almost be described as frozen scum at this point in the game. Perhaps not where we should focus our bullet tonight. 

 

Myself, well, if you're all going to keep sussing me this game and eventually have it lead to a mislynch/mis-androidkill (?) I would rather it happened sooner than later. I seem to not be able to clear myself very well in this game, and yes, I know, that's my one job as a townie. I don't want to be the one in F7/5/3 who you just lynch by default because I had some scummy thoughts. I would rather you just get it over with so I can help from the sidelines. 

 

I think I just POE'd myself into a scum slot. Well done me.

[Cory Caboose]

Nikon spends his entire limited time in the thread debating Lenlo/Pizza.

 

I would guess that whole argument was v/v, but it's basically all Nikon talks about.

 

He comes to no real observable conclusion but throws a vote on the growing Pizza wagon citing deadline apparently still 40 pages behind.

 

Not good.

[Sooh]

Nikon spends his entire limited time in the thread debating Lenlo/Pizza.

 

I would guess that whole argument was v/v, but it's basically all Nikon talks about.

 

He comes to no real observable conclusion but throws a vote on the growing Pizza wagon citing deadline apparently still 40 pages behind.

 

Not good.

Not good, but still not someone I would want to waste tonight on though. I would much rather catch a less obvious person. 

[Cory Caboose]

Made it to page 40 then quick skimmed to 50 but really getting tired after 14.5 hours of work-commute home-Mafia Catchup...

 

I believe I saw an email that there was a deadline and think it's tomorrow so at least want to get something in and for now I'll hope my reads so far are correct [v]PIZZA[/v]

 

Will try to continue and catch up tomorrow but will be at work until 5:00ish PST and think the deadline is somewhere around then.

 

 

 

Made it to page 40 then quick skimmed to 50 but really getting tired after 14.5 hours of work-commute home-Mafia Catchup...

 

I believe I saw an email that there was a deadline and think it's tomorrow so at least want to get something in and for now I'll hope my reads so far are correct [v]PIZZA[/v]

 

Will try to continue and catch up tomorrow but will be at work until 5:00ish PST and think the deadline is somewhere around then.

 

 

we need a reads list brother!!!!

 

 

 

 

Nikon.. Got an email...?

 

Huh what now? Am I missing something about the internet?

 

im pretty sure i know what he means.  Would you rather wait for him to explain?

 

 

 

I auto-follow topics I reply to, replies get forwarded to my email and pop up on the computer screen if I'm on my desktop/laptop.  Don't read them in full but will usually catch a glimpse when skimming through or if it pops up while I'm reading to catch up.  Also how I saw your question (while deleting the MANY emails which filled my inbox just from this game alone).  And now off to sleep, hope to catch up tomorrow cause I know there will be a ton more to read by the time I get home.

 

 

 

No i'm confused. I've also had a few drinks and am phone posting from bed so it's likely just me and lolcory

 

 

When you set notifications for threads on DM theres an option that DM will send you an email to alert you if someone posted in one of the threads you're following.  I think that's what it is imo.

 

 

And I know this is going to seem weird coming from me

 

But Zander's step-in bothers me.

 

I still think he's >>>> villager, but I can't help thinking it seems just sort of convenient.

 

Nikon literally only answers me (like somebody told him to clarify) and ignores Zander afterwards.

[Cory Caboose]

Not good, but still not someone I would want to waste tonight on though. I would much rather catch a less obvious person. 

Dead wolf is a dead wolf, Sooh.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza please don't take this the wrong way but I'm sort of glad you are dead.

 

I mean this in the highest regard and it's very specific to this set-up but I need somebody to bounce things off of and talk to and just run the gamut with and I haven't really found anyone to do that with this game that I feel comfortable with. 

 

I hope you don't take the lynch as a reason to be mad at the village or as a WIM killer, because I'd really like you to stick around and help sort through things with at least me (and certainly everyone else). I was wrong and I'm an idiot, but you can salvage this and my reads get far better d2+ on and you can still be a giant asset.

 

Nah. continued-

 

 

I was too irritated to do further good work, so I took a breather, but I'm fine. This is a guessing game, I'm not holding bad guesses against my fellow townies. It wasn't the suspicion that irritated me, it was the sloppiness of the prosecution. That's all.

 

I've been mislynched far more often than you'd think. Everyone is constantly suspicious of me all the time. I'm very used to it. I won't take it personally. it's a compliment really. When I was Nomi on this site I was almost the D1 lynch too. What I do attracts tons of suspicion and attention. And my scum behavior/skill level makes everyone doubt any town read on me they have, and are willing to pull the trigger more to avoid being wrong. I know this but I'm not changing my scum game that works, and I won't stop revealing my thought process no matter how alien it is.  Catch 22.

 

Don't ever let me survive the game, but people need more time to get a read on me than a day. I don't think I've been caught on day one cold more than once or twice in eight years outside of turbos, in 50+ games as scum. But I have been lynched D1 far more often than this.

 

I also do my best work when I've got some flips. My day 2 and onward are usually my best work, where I help win the game for town. I gotta survive that long. This game will be an exception perhaps.

 

 

 

And I will continue to talk to people, especially those who want to talk to me. But why talk to me when you can poke at the scums instead?

Also, @ All

 

I am still aligned town, presently. But while I am still aligned town, I want to say for the record that in my opinion, it's possible the androids can get converted to scum, which might be how this "experimental" game remains balanced.

 

Don't simply dismiss everything I say, or the opinions of the newly demised either. If we are town and remain that way we will do everything to help.

 

But it is not gospel. You only can count on your own opinions and alignment. Do not be led blindly by the deceased or the "confirmed".

 

That is my tinfoil hat. If I am correct about this, I should get super ultra mega deluxe bonus points for calling it.

[Sooh]

 

Not good, but still not someone I would want to waste tonight on though. I would much rather catch a less obvious person. 

Dead wolf is a dead wolf, Sooh.

 

True, I just think we'll gain more from hitting another wolf tonight. Someone who has posted nothing and made no impact isn't really optimal IMO. 

[Cory Caboose]

I'm not going to guide Pizza's shot though, I want him to decide it himself and own it. He may have a better view of this game than I do right now, for all I know.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Boy I wish I could edit. This blue is irritating to me and I'd love to spoiler my big posts.

[BFG]

 

Sorry, some friends surprised me by coming by yesterday and kept me busy most of the day but I hope to catch up now.  I had two people whose posts seemed to rub me the wrong way so I want to look deeper at them while catching up and seeing if I still feel those two or if anything new comes to mind.

 

 

Pages 10 to 20, feeling like Pizza is more town-like than the earlier first day posts but not completely out of my radar... Lenlo hasn't shown much that to change my thoughts but still trying to catch up on my first catchup read through.

 

Sorry for the lack of posts, RL keeps me busy which is why I usually try to avoid mafia but that's still a bad excuse...

 

 

After reading pages 20-30 Lenlo is looking a little better and I'm stuck feeling one of my leads is wrong... but which one? Leno and Pizza both seem to vie for the other so doubt both are mafia team together but from my reads so far can't tell which one I trust more.

 

Up to page 30 so making some progress but still a long way to go to catch up to the end...

Made it to page 40 then quick skimmed to 50 but really getting tired after 14.5 hours of work-commute home-Mafia Catchup...

 

I believe I saw an email that there was a deadline and think it's tomorrow so at least want to get something in and for now I'll hope my reads so far are correct [v]PIZZA[/v]

 

Will try to continue and catch up tomorrow but will be at work until 5:00ish PST and think the deadline is somewhere around then.

 

I should not need to explain why these posts are not good, why the conclusion is not good, and why the vote itself seems alarmingly conveniently timed.

 

BFG, you said Nikon was pretty wolfy when you were teamed with him some time back. What do you think?

 

I really don't like the assumption he has that one of Lenlo/Pizza has to be mafia here and the way he never considers anything else. I'd need to check OUAT to see what it was I thought there though. His focus on those 2 doesn't seem to match his stated approach of reading everything. I'd rather he wa caught up and interacting, but I'm not sure how much more time I'm willing to give, or how much more time there is. Games going to go much faster now

[Cory Caboose]

Boy I wish I could edit. This blue is irritating to me and I'd love to spoiler my big posts.

What's Pral going to do, modkill you?

[Zander?]

I think BFG is most definitely town. She didn't vote before work because she thought she'd have time to come back and do just that. She seemed to want to discuss more before making up her mind. Comfortable with her in town reads. 

 

Zander probably also definitely town. Though he has had that "I'm going to read someone scum and nobody is going to persuade me other wise"-attitude that I've seen before. He pretty much does that regardless of alignment though, so I still think he's town.

 

Cory I want to believe is town. There's the nagging hammer which will always and forever be a WIFOM reason to suss someone. Then there's the hedging reads on Tina and also partially on Dice and myself. He has had problems pinning us down which could mean he needs to hold mislynch options open. Then again, that's also just WIFOM. Cory is a difficult one for me. 

 

Lenlo I have no clue about. I have him as town lean, but he was let off the hook by Pizza earlier in game and hasn't really done much since. While I am fairly confident he's town there's always that off chance. 

 

Besie is better when she's doing real time interaction. I have a slight town read of her right now from our short real time interaction earlier. A bunch of what she pulls out when she's catching up in the game strikes me as far fetched and reaching for reasons, but that might also lead her to scum. It just looks weird to me when I read it. 

 

Dice is also tricky, but I want to believe he's town for taking a stance and defending it. He has fooled me multiple times, so what do I know. I wouldn't look there for wolf today at least.

 

Shad has been very not Shad this game. He was fine early on, but I'm missing the Shad who does cases and lays out his thought process for me. 

 

Tina has been slightly scummier than the rest to me, which is not really news. I constantly suspect her in mafia. 

 

Nolder has also not been a huge presence this game. I think he has been on the sideline, coming in with commentary when he sees fit. 

 

Nikon could almost be described as frozen scum at this point in the game. Perhaps not where we should focus our bullet tonight. 

 

Myself, well, if you're all going to keep sussing me this game and eventually have it lead to a mislynch/mis-androidkill (?) I would rather it happened sooner than later. I seem to not be able to clear myself very well in this game, and yes, I know, that's my one job as a townie. I don't want to be the one in F7/5/3 who you just lynch by default because I had some scummy thoughts. I would rather you just get it over with so I can help from the sidelines. 

 

I think I just POE'd myself into a scum slot. Well done me.

 

 

 

:wub:

 

Can you list all the games in which Dice was scum and you read him Town and why you did so please?

 

 

 

Also agree with your thoughts on BFG Shad and kinda on Cory as well.

[Cory Caboose]

But why talk to me when you can poke at the scums instead?

 

Poking Tina and Nikon has resulted in mostly zilch so far.

[Sooh]

 

I think BFG is most definitely town. She didn't vote before work because she thought she'd have time to come back and do just that. She seemed to want to discuss more before making up her mind. Comfortable with her in town reads. 

 

Zander probably also definitely town. Though he has had that "I'm going to read someone scum and nobody is going to persuade me other wise"-attitude that I've seen before. He pretty much does that regardless of alignment though, so I still think he's town.

 

Cory I want to believe is town. There's the nagging hammer which will always and forever be a WIFOM reason to suss someone. Then there's the hedging reads on Tina and also partially on Dice and myself. He has had problems pinning us down which could mean he needs to hold mislynch options open. Then again, that's also just WIFOM. Cory is a difficult one for me. 

 

Lenlo I have no clue about. I have him as town lean, but he was let off the hook by Pizza earlier in game and hasn't really done much since. While I am fairly confident he's town there's always that off chance. 

 

Besie is better when she's doing real time interaction. I have a slight town read of her right now from our short real time interaction earlier. A bunch of what she pulls out when she's catching up in the game strikes me as far fetched and reaching for reasons, but that might also lead her to scum. It just looks weird to me when I read it. 

 

Dice is also tricky, but I want to believe he's town for taking a stance and defending it. He has fooled me multiple times, so what do I know. I wouldn't look there for wolf today at least.

 

Shad has been very not Shad this game. He was fine early on, but I'm missing the Shad who does cases and lays out his thought process for me. 

 

Tina has been slightly scummier than the rest to me, which is not really news. I constantly suspect her in mafia. 

 

Nolder has also not been a huge presence this game. I think he has been on the sideline, coming in with commentary when he sees fit. 

 

Nikon could almost be described as frozen scum at this point in the game. Perhaps not where we should focus our bullet tonight. 

 

Myself, well, if you're all going to keep sussing me this game and eventually have it lead to a mislynch/mis-androidkill (?) I would rather it happened sooner than later. I seem to not be able to clear myself very well in this game, and yes, I know, that's my one job as a townie. I don't want to be the one in F7/5/3 who you just lynch by default because I had some scummy thoughts. I would rather you just get it over with so I can help from the sidelines. 

 

I think I just POE'd myself into a scum slot. Well done me.

 

 

 

:wub:

 

Can you list all the games in which Dice was scum and you read him Town and why you did so please?

 

 

 

Also agree with your thoughts on BFG Shad and kinda on Cory as well.

 

Ugh, really?

 

But teacher!!!! That is so much work!!!

 

Actually it's more the other way around. I have believed him to be town and he has been scum.

 

Fine. I'll go look up games.

 

I hate homework

 

*sulks*

[Sooh]

FWIW Zander, I'm already bored by this task.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Boy I wish I could edit. This blue is irritating to me and I'd love to spoiler my big posts.

What's Pral going to do, modkill you?

 

 

You'd lose your N1 android shot.

 

No one dies permanently this game but a Modkill is a Modkill. I have accidentally broken rules before but never deliberately.

[Cory Caboose]

Was a joke. Please don't break the rules. LDO

[Niniel]

I see that I missed the whole day. Pizza being town makes me need to re-think my list. If I'm alive that is. I would still suggest killing Sooh.

[Cory Caboose]

Hi Tina.

[Niniel]

Hi Cory.

[BFG]

 

I was going to ask why you hammered like 12 hours before deadline but it doesn't matter

 

Cory

 

Quote unrelated.

 

Remember when I said I wanted you to vote for Tina because I would be dead before you got back?

 

If there's one thing that is predictable it is group behavior. An individual player might surprise me but I've got group behavior down pat.

 

That's why I'm so difficult to catch as a wolf.

 

Please listen to me when I call what the group is going to do before they do it.

 

You called it and I'm sorry. But my vote's my own, and I'm not going to vote somebody because somebody hat i'm suspicious of asks me to. Deadline's in 8? hours from now, would have left me enough time to ISO you and Shad at the least.

 

Voting is something I need to work on, but I vote if I want to lynch somebody, the switch that lets people vote to pressure hasn't been made in my brain yet.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nikon spends his entire limited time in the thread debating Lenlo/Pizza.

 

I would guess that whole argument was v/v, but it's basically all Nikon talks about.

 

He comes to no real observable conclusion but throws a vote on the growing Pizza wagon citing deadline apparently still 40 pages behind.

 

Not good.

 

In general I agree with this (bold), don't know how strong it is in determining Nikon's alignment.

[BFG]

 

Nikon spends his entire limited time in the thread debating Lenlo/Pizza.

 

I would guess that whole argument was v/v, but it's basically all Nikon talks about.

 

He comes to no real observable conclusion but throws a vote on the growing Pizza wagon citing deadline apparently still 40 pages behind.

 

Not good.

Not good, but still not someone I would want to waste tonight on though. I would much rather catch a less obvious person.

 

I disagree, but I might be wrong.

 

I'd rather shoot omeone inactive with mafia equity and lynch somebody active with mafia equity. I think you get more information that way /shrug

I think I'm in a minority there though.

 

Right now I'd probably shoot Nikon and lynch Tina.

 

I'm going to spend a while looking at Shad though tonight, then work upwards through my reads.

[Pralaya]

 

Dead people - as far as possible - please post in Blue - so it is easy to differentiate during night .

Did not see this.

 

That's.... difficult. And possibly very visually distracting.

 

I really don't want to do that.

 

 

Alright, I am just experimenting here. Post normally then ...I think it would be fine for people to know who is dead and who isn't.