World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry, I couldn't handle the nonsense at a certain point, or I would have stayed and fought it out.

 

Now then, that's over. I'm also glad I checked the rules because I was thinking about fake claiming something to get that bad lynch off of me.

[Zander?]

... what?

 

 

You KNOW what I'm talking about......Are you slumming around in the Minority Village???

[Cory Caboose]

 

... what?

 

 

You KNOW what I'm talking about......Are you slumming around in the Minority Village???

 

 

are you serious?

[Cory Caboose]

oh my god i can't be any more obvious than i've been this game.

 

i'm literally killing myself trying to figure this game out.

 

don't you start. don't you even think about it.

[Zander?]

Sorry, I couldn't handle the nonsense at a certain point, or I would have stayed and fought it out.

 

Now then, that's over. I'm also glad I checked the rules because I was thinking about fake claiming something to get that bad lynch off of me.

 

 

I'm sorry brother honestly I am!!!

 

Who you shooting?  Who are the wolves?  Who do I lunch tomorrow in your honor? 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Gentlemen.

 

Hush.

 

My reads list. Am I correct or do I need to rethink something?

[Cory Caboose]

and if nothing else give me a couple hours to get my composure back before hurling things at me because i am still pretty shook and will be for a bit.

 

i do not like being wrong or feeling like i've led people astray.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Sorry, I couldn't handle the nonsense at a certain point, or I would have stayed and fought it out.

 

Now then, that's over. I'm also glad I checked the rules because I was thinking about fake claiming something to get that bad lynch off of me.

 

 

I'm sorry brother honestly I am!!!

 

Who you shooting?  Who are the wolves?  Who do I lunch tomorrow in your honor? 

 

Zander, you need to talk to your suspects in real time when they're in the thread with you.

 

I know it feels good to style all over them, but it gets pretty irritating to be on the other end of that and be a townie and see so clearly that that is what you're trying to do.

 

Don't be afraid to talk to someone, and don't be afraid to be incorrect sometimes.

 

No apologies needed. Learn and we move on.

[Zander?]

 

 

... what?

 

 

You KNOW what I'm talking about......Are you slumming around in the Minority Village???

 

 

are you serious?

 

 

 

oh my god i can't be any more obvious than i've been this game.

 

i'm literally killing myself trying to figure this game out.

 

don't you start. don't you even think about it.

 

[Cory Caboose]

i remember this feeling from pral's lynch in ragnarok. where i assess additional responsibility and feel like i've let the entire team down by not thinking differently or making a different decision.

 

give me time to mourn and hate myself and then i can be a punching bag. right now nobody is going to hit me harder than me, and any attempt at nonsense is going to make me more abrasive than i want to be.

[Askthepizzaguy]

and if nothing else give me a couple hours to get my composure back before hurling things at me because i am still pretty shook and will be for a bit.

 

i do not like being wrong or feeling like i've led people astray.

 

Bah.

 

My leans list. Pick it apart. What assumptions did I make which were wrong? I can link it.

 

My reads list. What's wrong with it?

[Zander?]

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't handle the nonsense at a certain point, or I would have stayed and fought it out.

 

Now then, that's over. I'm also glad I checked the rules because I was thinking about fake claiming something to get that bad lynch off of me.

 

 

I'm sorry brother honestly I am!!!

 

Who you shooting?  Who are the wolves?  Who do I lunch tomorrow in your honor? 

 

Zander, you need to talk to your suspects in real time when they're in the thread with you.

 

I know it feels good to style all over them, but it gets pretty irritating to be on the other end of that and be a townie and see so clearly that that is what you're trying to do.

 

Don't be afraid to talk to someone, and don't be afraid to be incorrect sometimes.

 

No apologies needed. Learn and we move on.

 

 

 

Im still legit sorry man.  I do get a little "amped" up sometimes....I wont dispute that,,,,I will certainly learn from this and the only proper way to move on is for us to still get the W!!!!!!

[Cory Caboose]

Gentlemen.

 

Hush.

 

My reads list. Am I correct or do I need to rethink something?

 

I think one of the most important things I've learned playing this game is "gauge new information into your existing reads" rather than "let new information change your reads entirely". I don't throw out the book because a page tears.

 

And you don't really have "new information".

[Zander?]

Pizza you still feel like you and Len were t vs t?

[Pralaya]

 

 

"Äre you for real,Andy? Drinking water? Come on, this is the legendary Pub Crawl !", Gary screamed. 

 

Gary got up from his seat for a long piss. On the way to the restroom, he glanced at the person sitting on the far stool and instantly recognised him. Guy Shephard. Memories came running back.

"What do you want to do with your life, Gary", he had asked when Gary was in school. 

And, he had replied with aplomb "All I want to do is to have a good time". Alas, life doesn't turn out the way you want it to.

 

He started to go and talk to him but he had disappeared. Disappointed, Gary came back and ordered his friends "We are done here. Let's go to the next pub - the Old Familiar!"

 

Meanwhile, unknown to him, Guy Shephard was harvested for his DNA back in the store room of the pub. The Network was expanding !

 

Askthepizzaguy, Guy Shephard - vanilla town is now an android

 

Pizza has 24 hours to vote. He can post in the game, during night. With 1 person dead, need 1 to lynch (hybrid hammer - remember)

 

I take it bold means that scum has no NK?

 

 

Like I said before, PAFO .

[Cory Caboose]

I still think Tina is probably a wolf.

 

Shad I backed off a little because I felt he was softclaiming and that stuff works on me on some level.

 

Nikon I think I should have attacked more. His catch-up posts don't really show any thought process and I think it's odd he claims to be perpetually behind but still had the wagon knowledge to drop a vote on Pizza. I don't know why I didn't explore that more.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about Sooh, I don't know.

 

Ugh.

[Zander?]

Vote Count:

 

Pizza (7): Lenlo, Tina, Shad, Nikon, Blom, Zander, Cory

Tina (3): Sooh, Dice, Pizza

 

Not Voting: bfg, Nolder

 

With 12 players, 7 needed to lynch

 

That's a lynch !!

 

Who are the wolves on Pizza's train?

[Cory Caboose]

 

and if nothing else give me a couple hours to get my composure back before hurling things at me because i am still pretty shook and will be for a bit.

 

i do not like being wrong or feeling like i've led people astray.

 

Bah.

 

My leans list. Pick it apart. What assumptions did I make which were wrong? I can link it.

 

My reads list. What's wrong with it?

 

 

Please do link fwiw.

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96361-worlds-end-mafia-n1-the-old-familiar/page-97?do=findComment&comment=3584335

 

Post 1924

 

"Cory is a townie

Nolder is a townie

Zander is a townie

Pizza is a townie

Besie is a townie

BFG is a townie

Lenlo is a townie

Dice is a townie

 

That's why Tina is a scum."

 

(quoted portion)

 

Deepwolf candidates from that list?

 

 

 

Cory- early game enthusiasm of the specific sort I needed, plus the sabotage comment. Why that's always townie is because if Cory is a scum, he knows for a fact that I'm not a scum, and his first reaction to me threatening to shoot Zander because he's not villaging properly is to call it sabotage. That's not what a scumbag says there. Even if Zander is his partner. There's no way Cory-scum dissuades me from that shot, ever, even if Zander was his partner, especially not by using that reasoning. That's not a scum reason for trying to chastise that behavior, it's always townie and it is currently the reason why he's voting for me, and I understand that, because that behavior (my threatening Zander in that precise manner) is seen by Cory to be anti-town, and if there's doubt in Cory's mind about me, he's going to lynch the anti-town behavior.
 
Cory is wrong because Anti-town behavior is not scum behavior, it's against the town team in his opinion and mine, but in MY POSITION, I cannot allow myself to be the lynch and I have to attempt to persuade Zander not to lynch me, and I can't because he stonewalled me and stopped asking me solving questions. He asked a couple when he was catching up but when he was fully caught up, which is what I was waiting for, he did not pursue any further questions, and there's not a damned thing I can possibly do as his teammate to change his mind, he needs to see the flip first. That's bad for the reasons I told to his face, and he's letting me down.
 
It wasn't an idle threat but it was me doing what I could to affect the outcome.
 
My questions about his alignment because he was active but not pressing his suspects that hard disappeared in his later posts. The tack he's taken on me is so much more dangerous and straightforward than so many options he had available to him as a scumbag in his position of being town-read so much with an easy D1 lynch in his pocket.
 
Nolder's leans list looks outdated to me due to missing information, the kind you'd get from coming from a position of not being in the know and trying to get to the same page everyone else is. That kind of piecemeal information leans list is harder to fake as a scum and it rarely occurs to a scum to have such a list.
 
Zander has a responsibility to the scum team and should in no way be afraid of pretending to ask me solving questions, but it's possible(?).... it's less likely when the alternative is I shoot him tonight. He's letting me down in a big way by hiding in fear of the big scary pizza monster by saying to me that he's afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind, so he's gotta kill me because I'm a wolf lean. Killing pizza without a fair trial when you've got me on the witness stand and you're allowed to ask me questions is bad prosecution, period. That lesson needs to be learned for future games. He didn't budge from his position under threat, which he really should have if he's a townie, but almost undoubtedly would have budged if he were scum. I had questions about his alignment from his poor prosecution which read differently from the last game, but he's got balls of steel or is deliberately sabotaging his scum team today by not prosecuting me properly and therefore being en prise for no reason when he was being universally town-read again, even by the person he was trying to lynch.
 
I'm a townie because that's what I rolled. And I demonstrated that all round. It's not being listened to because big scary pizza monster might live for one more day. Thanks for the compliment but this is a self-inflicted wound. I towned and it wasn't exactly what it was in the previous game, and I'm being lynched, as I predicted, by Cory, for that exact reason that I predicted.
 
I am aware of how people react to my posts and I still made them.
 
Besie was a town lean, but I think there's little or no risk for Besie to put me at L-1, because she's not under a ton of suspicion. I don't know Besie, so this one is a little harder to say is a lock. But I'd not shoot her tonight if I died. If Besie instead lynches Tina and Tina is a scum, Besie can be blue until final 3.
 
I have repeatedly and in detail explained why Lenlo looked so godawful to me and that reversed, and it's very specific and very strong. And it's not bullshit. And it's really unlikely to be wrong.
 
Dice is voting where the PoE should be. Dice can be the deepwolf, but he's not going to survive the whole game if he lynches his not-deep wolves day one and then is never the murder or the retaliatory night lynch. I also went over Dice before and I'll do it again.
 
Sooh is voting where the PoE should be. I still don't trust her because her leans and votes have been opposite to mine most of the game. Lean on Lenlo started wrong and ended up right too quickly, imo. Seems reluctant to lynch Shad. If Tina is town and Shad is scum you must lynch Sooh. Sooh voting where the PoE should be isn't clearing for her the way it is for Dice because she's also under suspicion and she doesn't have a lot of choice, if she lynches me today she always dies.
 
Nikon is null-POE. I don't trust him, but I need more time to read him.
 
Shad is bad for the reasons that are subtle but have been noticed by not just me.
 
Tina is bad because of that hard unvote and no real pushing. Lenlo was going to look bizarre early game for what he was doing, that was an easy thing for a wolf to attack. Tina's suspects weren't getting pushed and her vote also vanished from Lenlo when the wagon didn't look like it was going that way.
 
I can and did thoroughly and at length explain my unvote, and it's never a reason that comes from Pizza-scum.
 
Tina's was never explained and makes no sense from a villaging perspective.

 

From the cited post.

 

Which aspects of my thinking were wrong?

 

Don't just sheep me. I gave my reads. Which ones are the most solid? Which ones would you pick at and go no, pizza.... that's wrong because raisins.

 

I didn't get to BFG because I was spitting this out on the fly. I have her as a town lean.

 

I want input because follow the leader is how scums hide. It's like when a mason or detective claims and then everyone follows that person. Right or wrong it's easy for scum to hide there.

 

So in particular, my top suspects, my nulls, and yes even my villagers, should be telling me where I'm wrong, and where the scums are.

 

I may still do my own thing if I am convinced I did a good job with my reads.

[Zander?]

 

Vote Count:

 

Pizza (7): Lenlo, Tina, Shad, Nikon, Blom, Zander, Cory

Tina (3): Sooh, Dice, Pizza

 

Not Voting: bfg, Nolder

 

With 12 players, 7 needed to lynch

 

That's a lynch !!

 

Who are the wolves on Pizza's train?

 

 

 

Like 3 of the top general consensus suspects are on the train (Shad Tina Nikon)

[Cory Caboose]

The only thing that bothers me about BFG is that she was a non-voter. Everything else screams villager to the point where I feel like that's just a footnote.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That post is at everyone, town and scum leans included.

 

If I got a scum lean on you and you don't do the work, your team can blame you when I shoot you.

 

If I have a town lean on you and you don't discuss, I might get a little trigger happy because I would also like to shoot the deep wolf candidate so we don't waste time chasing our town reads by day.

[Zander?]

The only thing that bothers me about BFG is that she was a non-voter. Everything else screams villager to the point where I feel like that's just a footnote.

 

Pretty conifdent BFG is Town.  In Bellicheat she didnt vote for like the first 3 days and she was Town and the Doc I think.  If anything I think her none vote is more likely to come from Town!BFG cause in Nightmare she voted D1 and voted in a poor manor imo (Sorry my dear) as Scum!BFG.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza you still feel like you and Len were t vs t?

 

Haven't read everything but that's where I was last time I checked the game.

[Cory Caboose]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96361-worlds-end-mafia-n1-the-old-familiar/page-97?do=findComment&comment=3584335

 

Post 1924

 

"Cory is a townie

Nolder is a townie

Zander is a townie

Pizza is a townie

Besie is a townie

BFG is a townie

Lenlo is a townie

Dice is a townie

 

That's why Tina is a scum."

 

(quoted portion)

 

Deepwolf candidates from that list?

 

 

 

 

Cory- early game enthusiasm of the specific sort I needed, plus the sabotage comment. Why that's always townie is because if Cory is a scum, he knows for a fact that I'm not a scum, and his first reaction to me threatening to shoot Zander because he's not villaging properly is to call it sabotage. That's not what a scumbag says there. Even if Zander is his partner. There's no way Cory-scum dissuades me from that shot, ever, even if Zander was his partner, especially not by using that reasoning. That's not a scum reason for trying to chastise that behavior, it's always townie and it is currently the reason why he's voting for me, and I understand that, because that behavior (my threatening Zander in that precise manner) is seen by Cory to be anti-town, and if there's doubt in Cory's mind about me, he's going to lynch the anti-town behavior.

 

Cory is wrong because Anti-town behavior is not scum behavior, it's against the town team in his opinion and mine, but in MY POSITION, I cannot allow myself to be the lynch and I have to attempt to persuade Zander not to lynch me, and I can't because he stonewalled me and stopped asking me solving questions. He asked a couple when he was catching up but when he was fully caught up, which is what I was waiting for, he did not pursue any further questions, and there's not a damned thing I can possibly do as his teammate to change his mind, he needs to see the flip first. That's bad for the reasons I told to his face, and he's letting me down.

 

It wasn't an idle threat but it was me doing what I could to affect the outcome.

 

My questions about his alignment because he was active but not pressing his suspects that hard disappeared in his later posts. The tack he's taken on me is so much more dangerous and straightforward than so many options he had available to him as a scumbag in his position of being town-read so much with an easy D1 lynch in his pocket.

 

Nolder's leans list looks outdated to me due to missing information, the kind you'd get from coming from a position of not being in the know and trying to get to the same page everyone else is. That kind of piecemeal information leans list is harder to fake as a scum and it rarely occurs to a scum to have such a list.

 

Zander has a responsibility to the scum team and should in no way be afraid of pretending to ask me solving questions, but it's possible(?).... it's less likely when the alternative is I shoot him tonight. He's letting me down in a big way by hiding in fear of the big scary pizza monster by saying to me that he's afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind, so he's gotta kill me because I'm a wolf lean. Killing pizza without a fair trial when you've got me on the witness stand and you're allowed to ask me questions is bad prosecution, period. That lesson needs to be learned for future games. He didn't budge from his position under threat, which he really should have if he's a townie, but almost undoubtedly would have budged if he were scum. I had questions about his alignment from his poor prosecution which read differently from the last game, but he's got balls of steel or is deliberately sabotaging his scum team today by not prosecuting me properly and therefore being en prise for no reason when he was being universally town-read again, even by the person he was trying to lynch.

 

I'm a townie because that's what I rolled. And I demonstrated that all round. It's not being listened to because big scary pizza monster might live for one more day. Thanks for the compliment but this is a self-inflicted wound. I towned and it wasn't exactly what it was in the previous game, and I'm being lynched, as I predicted, by Cory, for that exact reason that I predicted.

 

I am aware of how people react to my posts and I still made them.

 

Besie was a town lean, but I think there's little or no risk for Besie to put me at L-1, because she's not under a ton of suspicion. I don't know Besie, so this one is a little harder to say is a lock. But I'd not shoot her tonight if I died. If Besie instead lynches Tina and Tina is a scum, Besie can be blue until final 3.

 

I have repeatedly and in detail explained why Lenlo looked so godawful to me and that reversed, and it's very specific and very strong. And it's not bullshit. And it's really unlikely to be wrong.

 

Dice is voting where the PoE should be. Dice can be the deepwolf, but he's not going to survive the whole game if he lynches his not-deep wolves day one and then is never the murder or the retaliatory night lynch. I also went over Dice before and I'll do it again.

 

Sooh is voting where the PoE should be. I still don't trust her because her leans and votes have been opposite to mine most of the game. Lean on Lenlo started wrong and ended up right too quickly, imo. Seems reluctant to lynch Shad. If Tina is town and Shad is scum you must lynch Sooh. Sooh voting where the PoE should be isn't clearing for her the way it is for Dice because she's also under suspicion and she doesn't have a lot of choice, if she lynches me today she always dies.

 

Nikon is null-POE. I don't trust him, but I need more time to read him.

 

Shad is bad for the reasons that are subtle but have been noticed by not just me.

 

Tina is bad because of that hard unvote and no real pushing. Lenlo was going to look bizarre early game for what he was doing, that was an easy thing for a wolf to attack. Tina's suspects weren't getting pushed and her vote also vanished from Lenlo when the wagon didn't look like it was going that way.

 

I can and did thoroughly and at length explain my unvote, and it's never a reason that comes from Pizza-scum.

 

Tina's was never explained and makes no sense from a villaging perspective.

 

 

From the cited post.

 

Which aspects of my thinking were wrong?

 

Don't just sheep me. I gave my reads. Which ones are the most solid? Which ones would you pick at and go no, pizza.... that's wrong because raisins.

 

I didn't get to BFG because I was spitting this out on the fly. I have her as a town lean.

 

I want input because follow the leader is how scums hide. It's like when a mason or detective claims and then everyone follows that person. Right or wrong it's easy for scum to hide there.

 

So in particular, my top suspects, my nulls, and yes even my villagers, should be telling me where I'm wrong, and where the scums are.

 

I may still do my own thing if I am convinced I did a good job with my reads.

 

Nolder/Besie/Dice I am not as comfortable with.

I'll go through why soon, but swamped at work atm.