World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Cory Caboose]

Zander I'm just letting you know I'm considering switching to Tina

 

Because I am weak, but also because I think it's right

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad  not pizza

 

 

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

 

 

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe"   not a fan

 

Dice so towny!

 

 

 

lol why cause he agrees with you about not lynching Pizza?  Cause if thats the reason its quite weak imo.

 

*waits for Zander to catch up*

 

 

 

Still havent seen you really list much in the way of SOLID reasoning.  Dice is playing like Dice so he's Town....like youre ruling out the fact he can't do the same as Scum.  I'm not even saying that i agree or disagree with the READ itself but again like I felt you did with Besie, its the reasoning I'm taking issue with,

[Cory Caboose]

Vote Count:

 

Pizza (5): Lenlo, Tina, Shad, Cory, Nikon

Shad (1): Zander

Tina (3): Sooh, Dice, Pizza

 

Not Voting: bfg, besie, nolder

 

With 12 players, 7 needed to lynch

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

[v]Shad[/v]

[Cory Caboose]

lolcorysaysonethingandthendoesanother.gif

[Pralaya]

Pral we should probably change thread title

Pssst. The First Post is the first pub in the movie :)

[Guest]

[v]Shad[/v]

lolcorysaysonethingandthendoesanother.gif

Well. Okay correh.

 

While you do that I'm going to do what I wanted to earlier, but didn't because I thought he would at least try to change my mind. Villagers have nothing to hide, right.

 

[v]Pizza[/v]

[Zander?]

 

*SNIP*

 

Zander has a responsibility to the scum team and should in no way be afraid of pretending to ask me solving questions, but it's possible(?).... it's less likely when the alternative is I shoot him tonight. He's letting me down in a big way by hiding in fear of the big scary pizza monster by saying to me that he's afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind, so he's gotta kill me because I'm a wolf lean. Killing pizza without a fair trial when you've got me on the witness stand and you're allowed to ask me questions is bad prosecution, period. That lesson needs to be learned for future games. He didn't budge from his position under threat, which he really should have if he's a townie, but almost undoubtedly would have budged if he were scum. I had questions about his alignment from his poor prosecution which read differently from the last game, but he's got balls of steel or is deliberately sabotaging his scum team today by not prosecuting me properly and therefore being en prise for no reason when he was being universally town-read again, even by the person he was trying to lynch.

 

I'm a townie because that's what I rolled. And I demonstrated that all round. It's not being listened to because big scary pizza monster might live for one more day. Thanks for the compliment but this is a self-inflicted wound. I towned and it wasn't exactly what it was in the previous game, and I'm being lynched, as I predicted, by Cory, for that exact reason that I predicted.

 

I am aware of how people react to my posts and I still made them.

 

*SNIP*

 

 

First off my "Only responsibility to the scum team" is to DESTROY THEIR SCUMMY LIVES!!!!  Secondly you know I'm not afraid of anything in life except short angry women and flying.

 

Wanna try that one again brother?  You know I'm not afraid to go after ANYBODY as either Alignment.  Also...add in the red it seems like quite the contradiction there doesn't Pizza? And for someone who claimed his Town reads off me and Cory were from a "Boss" and not TMI.  Is starting to now saying well only kinda possible if Zander is a wolf...or comes from Scum!Zander as your defense of my push of you.  Backpedaling not a good sign brother!!!

 

Why would a Townie have to back away from a threat from someone he thought was Scum and pushing them.  That makes 0 sense to me at all.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Vote Count:

Pizza (5): Lenlo, Tina, Shad, Nikon, Besie
Shad (2): Zander, Cory
Tina (3): Sooh, Dice, Pizza

Not Voting: bfg, nolder

With 12 players, 7 needed to lynch

 

[Guest]

I'll just as easily vote Sooh.

 

I'm not voting Shad. He's null-town for me. And I'm not voting Tina. She's done nothing IN THIS GAME that makes her scum. I believe you guys are voting her because you're comparing her to other games, right?

[ReleaseTheEvil]

 

Pral we should probably change thread title

Pssst. The First Post is the first pub in the movie :)

 

 

I totally knew that   (and I totally haven't lost track of if we are on day 1 or not...      )

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Seriously, don't lynch me.

If you lynch Tina, you won't die today or tonight by my dead android hand. Simplest course of action.

 

 

Hate these threat/ultimatum type posts from Pizza.

 

Like did he seriously think it was gonna make me make off?

 

Does he seriously think it will make Shad back off?

 

Still waiting to see a response from Pizza irt Shad's ISO of him,

 

Why not speak directly to me? I'm not afraid of townie Zander.

 

 

 

I am and you should be imo......lololololololol......but seriously....you should be.

[Guest]

Also interesting that the "trio" (page 92), and also 3 of my 4 top scum reads are voting Tina.

[Guest]

 

 

 

Pral we should probably change thread title

Pssst. The First Post is the first pub in the movie :)

I totally knew that (and I totally haven't lost track of if we are on day 1 or not... )

Lol RTE.

 

I love the mods of this game.

[Zander?]

 

@Pizza

 

 

 

 

 

16 hours to deadline, I should be back within 8.

 

Hammer generally doesn't fall that early without strong consensus on this site. If it does, that will be telling as well.

 

Explain why Tina is mafia? I have her as POE, but that's not the same thing

Cory is a townie

Nolder is a townie

Zander is a townie

Pizza is a townie

Besie is a townie

BFG is a townie

Lenlo is a townie

Dice is a townie

 

That's why Tina is a scum.

Cory- early game enthusiasm of the specific sort I needed, plus the sabotage comment. Why that's always townie is because if Cory is a scum, he knows for a fact that I'm not a scum, and his first reaction to me threatening to shoot Zander because he's not villaging properly is to call it sabotage. That's not what a scumbag says there. Even if Zander is his partner. There's no way Cory-scum dissuades me from that shot, ever, even if Zander was his partner, especially not by using that reasoning. That's not a scum reason for trying to chastise that behavior, it's always townie and it is currently the reason why he's voting for me, and I understand that, because that behavior (my threatening Zander in that precise manner) is seen by Cory to be anti-town, and if there's doubt in Cory's mind about me, he's going to lynch the anti-town behavior.

 

Cory is wrong because Anti-town behavior is not scum behavior, it's against the town team in his opinion and mine, but in MY POSITION, I cannot allow myself to be the lynch and I have to attempt to persuade Zander not to lynch me, and I can't because he stonewalled me and stopped asking me solving questions. He asked a couple when he was catching up but when he was fully caught up, which is what I was waiting for, he did not pursue any further questions, and there's not a damned thing I can possibly do as his teammate to change his mind, he needs to see the flip first. That's bad for the reasons I told to his face, and he's letting me down.

 

It wasn't an idle threat but it was me doing what I could to affect the outcome.

 

My questions about his alignment because he was active but not pressing his suspects that hard disappeared in his later posts. The tack he's taken on me is so much more dangerous and straightforward than so many options he had available to him as a scumbag in his position of being town-read so much with an easy D1 lynch in his pocket.

 

Nolder's leans list looks outdated to me due to missing information, the kind you'd get from coming from a position of not being in the know and trying to get to the same page everyone else is. That kind of piecemeal information leans list is harder to fake as a scum and it rarely occurs to a scum to have such a list.

 

Zander has a responsibility to the scum team and should in no way be afraid of pretending to ask me solving questions, but it's possible(?).... it's less likely when the alternative is I shoot him tonight. He's letting me down in a big way by hiding in fear of the big scary pizza monster by saying to me that he's afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind, so he's gotta kill me because I'm a wolf lean. Killing pizza without a fair trial when you've got me on the witness stand and you're allowed to ask me questions is bad prosecution, period. That lesson needs to be learned for future games. He didn't budge from his position under threat, which he really should have if he's a townie, but almost undoubtedly would have budged if he were scum. I had questions about his alignment from his poor prosecution which read differently from the last game, but he's got balls of steel or is deliberately sabotaging his scum team today by not prosecuting me properly and therefore being en prise for no reason when he was being universally town-read again, even by the person he was trying to lynch.

 

I'm a townie because that's what I rolled. And I demonstrated that all round. It's not being listened to because big scary pizza monster might live for one more day. Thanks for the compliment but this is a self-inflicted wound. I towned and it wasn't exactly what it was in the previous game, and I'm being lynched, as I predicted, by Cory, for that exact reason that I predicted.

 

I am aware of how people react to my posts and I still made them.

 

Besie was a town lean, but I think there's little or no risk for Besie to put me at L-1, because she's not under a ton of suspicion. I don't know Besie, so this one is a little harder to say is a lock. But I'd not shoot her tonight if I died. If Besie instead lynches Tina and Tina is a scum, Besie can be blue until final 3.

 

I have repeatedly and in detail explained why Lenlo looked so godawful to me and that reversed, and it's very specific and very strong. And it's not bullshit. And it's really unlikely to be wrong.

 

Dice is voting where the PoE should be. Dice can be the deepwolf, but he's not going to survive the whole game if he lynches his not-deep wolves day one and then is never the murder or the retaliatory night lynch. I also went over Dice before and I'll do it again.

 

Sooh is voting where the PoE should be. I still don't trust her because her leans and votes have been opposite to mine most of the game. Lean on Lenlo started wrong and ended up right too quickly, imo. Seems reluctant to lynch Shad. If Tina is town and Shad is scum you must lynch Sooh. Sooh voting where the PoE should be isn't clearing for her the way it is for Dice because she's also under suspicion and she doesn't have a lot of choice, if she lynches me today she always dies.

 

Nikon is null-POE. I don't trust him, but I need more time to read him.

 

Shad is bad for the reasons that are subtle but have been noticed by not just me.

 

Tina is bad because of that hard unvote and no real pushing. Lenlo was going to look bizarre early game for what he was doing, that was an easy thing for a wolf to attack. Tina's suspects weren't getting pushed and her vote also vanished from Lenlo when the wagon didn't look like it was going that way.

 

I can and did thoroughly and at length explain my unvote, and it's never a reason that comes from Pizza-scum.

 

Tina's was never explained and makes no sense from a villaging perspective.

 

 

About your thoughts on me. Yes. There is no threat to me if YOU are put at L-1. I did that because, oh that's right, to hear BFG's thoughts, and then to also because I'm not, in your words, "afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind". Talk to me. Answer my questions.

 

And then, I don't see how my vote or not vote on Tina will change anything. I know nothing about her. I've not seen anything, and I've said that many times. You people that have played with her say that she's scummy in this game. So you just want me to trust you? How's that villa in any way at all - especially since youre scummy in my eyes? She's null to me. Null to town if I have to add an alignment because I liked sooh's reasoning (page 67) to what Tina said, and agreed with it. So please explain to me how MY vote on Tina will change anything?

 

 

I am being cooperative and answering questions, but I don't need this edge to your words. I'm already steamed.

 

I'm doing my job as a teammate and member of this village, but you, my teammates, could make it easier for me to not throw in the towel and say fudge it, lynch me. I don't care anymore.

 

 

 

Likelihood Town Pizza is willing to give up is slim to none imo.  Im not feeling this post.  If I'm wrong brother I'm sorry but this is what I fee and I feel like I'm right about you being Scum.

 

This reads to me more like youre frustrated at being pegged Scum D1 then you being an actual frustrated Towny.

[Guest]

FTFM

 

Post #1988 on this page. It's not page 92, but page 95, with this quote where Sooh called it "trio":

 

 

 

*snip*

 

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad  not pizza

 

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe"   not a fan

Dice so towny!

Yeah I don't see how this makes him towny AT ALL. At all. There's so many other factors that contribute to Pizza being the most scummy.

Are you, Sooh, and Dice, w/w?

 

*snip*

Really?

 

I admit I'm not great at this game when wolfing, but it would be ridiculous of a wolf me to put our trio so close together. 

 

Dice is towny because Dice does Dice. He takes stances regardless of their popularity and defends them. This is one of those cases in which I believe his thinking is completely towny.

 

[Zander?]

I've reached my limit.

 

Askthepizzaguy died and was a villager. I've wasted enough time on this game today.

 

 

Ugggggggggggh feels like an AtE attempt to me.  Again brother I'm TRULY sorry if I'm wrong but the more I've been seeing the more I feel like I'm right.

[Cory Caboose]

I'll just as easily vote Sooh.

 

I'm not voting Shad. He's null-town for me. And I'm not voting Tina. She's done nothing IN THIS GAME that makes her scum. I believe you guys are voting her because you're comparing her to other games, right?

If she's scum, she isn't going to do anything "overtly scummy" - she plays it safe as scum in general. You are going to lose to her any game as scum if you approach her that way.

[Zander?]

This game is becoming frustrating to me. Frustrating because people make one assumption about people in early game and refuse to change their reads. 

 

I certainly agree with you that this game can be frustrating and is more often then not but its up to the suspect to change the people's mind not the other way around.  I can only speak for myself but I don't feel like that's what happening with who I can only assume you mean here and that's Pizza.

[Guest]

 

 

I'll just as easily vote Sooh.

 

I'm not voting Shad. He's null-town for me. And I'm not voting Tina. She's done nothing IN THIS GAME that makes her scum. I believe you guys are voting her because you're comparing her to other games, right?

If she's scum, she isn't going to do anything "overtly scummy" - she plays it safe as scum in general. You are going to lose to her any game as scum if you approach her that way.

Mmmm. Understood.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

@Pizza

 

 

 

 

 

16 hours to deadline, I should be back within 8.

 

Hammer generally doesn't fall that early without strong consensus on this site. If it does, that will be telling as well.

 

Explain why Tina is mafia? I have her as POE, but that's not the same thing

Cory is a townie

Nolder is a townie

Zander is a townie

Pizza is a townie

Besie is a townie

BFG is a townie

Lenlo is a townie

Dice is a townie

 

That's why Tina is a scum.

Cory- early game enthusiasm of the specific sort I needed, plus the sabotage comment. Why that's always townie is because if Cory is a scum, he knows for a fact that I'm not a scum, and his first reaction to me threatening to shoot Zander because he's not villaging properly is to call it sabotage. That's not what a scumbag says there. Even if Zander is his partner. There's no way Cory-scum dissuades me from that shot, ever, even if Zander was his partner, especially not by using that reasoning. That's not a scum reason for trying to chastise that behavior, it's always townie and it is currently the reason why he's voting for me, and I understand that, because that behavior (my threatening Zander in that precise manner) is seen by Cory to be anti-town, and if there's doubt in Cory's mind about me, he's going to lynch the anti-town behavior.

 

Cory is wrong because Anti-town behavior is not scum behavior, it's against the town team in his opinion and mine, but in MY POSITION, I cannot allow myself to be the lynch and I have to attempt to persuade Zander not to lynch me, and I can't because he stonewalled me and stopped asking me solving questions. He asked a couple when he was catching up but when he was fully caught up, which is what I was waiting for, he did not pursue any further questions, and there's not a damned thing I can possibly do as his teammate to change his mind, he needs to see the flip first. That's bad for the reasons I told to his face, and he's letting me down.

 

It wasn't an idle threat but it was me doing what I could to affect the outcome.

 

My questions about his alignment because he was active but not pressing his suspects that hard disappeared in his later posts. The tack he's taken on me is so much more dangerous and straightforward than so many options he had available to him as a scumbag in his position of being town-read so much with an easy D1 lynch in his pocket.

 

Nolder's leans list looks outdated to me due to missing information, the kind you'd get from coming from a position of not being in the know and trying to get to the same page everyone else is. That kind of piecemeal information leans list is harder to fake as a scum and it rarely occurs to a scum to have such a list.

 

Zander has a responsibility to the scum team and should in no way be afraid of pretending to ask me solving questions, but it's possible(?).... it's less likely when the alternative is I shoot him tonight. He's letting me down in a big way by hiding in fear of the big scary pizza monster by saying to me that he's afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind, so he's gotta kill me because I'm a wolf lean. Killing pizza without a fair trial when you've got me on the witness stand and you're allowed to ask me questions is bad prosecution, period. That lesson needs to be learned for future games. He didn't budge from his position under threat, which he really should have if he's a townie, but almost undoubtedly would have budged if he were scum. I had questions about his alignment from his poor prosecution which read differently from the last game, but he's got balls of steel or is deliberately sabotaging his scum team today by not prosecuting me properly and therefore being en prise for no reason when he was being universally town-read again, even by the person he was trying to lynch.

 

I'm a townie because that's what I rolled. And I demonstrated that all round. It's not being listened to because big scary pizza monster might live for one more day. Thanks for the compliment but this is a self-inflicted wound. I towned and it wasn't exactly what it was in the previous game, and I'm being lynched, as I predicted, by Cory, for that exact reason that I predicted.

 

I am aware of how people react to my posts and I still made them.

 

Besie was a town lean, but I think there's little or no risk for Besie to put me at L-1, because she's not under a ton of suspicion. I don't know Besie, so this one is a little harder to say is a lock. But I'd not shoot her tonight if I died. If Besie instead lynches Tina and Tina is a scum, Besie can be blue until final 3.

 

I have repeatedly and in detail explained why Lenlo looked so godawful to me and that reversed, and it's very specific and very strong. And it's not bullshit. And it's really unlikely to be wrong.

 

Dice is voting where the PoE should be. Dice can be the deepwolf, but he's not going to survive the whole game if he lynches his not-deep wolves day one and then is never the murder or the retaliatory night lynch. I also went over Dice before and I'll do it again.

 

Sooh is voting where the PoE should be. I still don't trust her because her leans and votes have been opposite to mine most of the game. Lean on Lenlo started wrong and ended up right too quickly, imo. Seems reluctant to lynch Shad. If Tina is town and Shad is scum you must lynch Sooh. Sooh voting where the PoE should be isn't clearing for her the way it is for Dice because she's also under suspicion and she doesn't have a lot of choice, if she lynches me today she always dies.

 

Nikon is null-POE. I don't trust him, but I need more time to read him.

 

Shad is bad for the reasons that are subtle but have been noticed by not just me.

 

Tina is bad because of that hard unvote and no real pushing. Lenlo was going to look bizarre early game for what he was doing, that was an easy thing for a wolf to attack. Tina's suspects weren't getting pushed and her vote also vanished from Lenlo when the wagon didn't look like it was going that way.

 

I can and did thoroughly and at length explain my unvote, and it's never a reason that comes from Pizza-scum.

 

Tina's was never explained and makes no sense from a villaging perspective.

 

 

About your thoughts on me. Yes. There is no threat to me if YOU are put at L-1. I did that because, oh that's right, to hear BFG's thoughts, and then to also because I'm not, in your words, "afraid if he asks me questions it might change my mind". Talk to me. Answer my questions.

 

And then, I don't see how my vote or not vote on Tina will change anything. I know nothing about her. I've not seen anything, and I've said that many times. You people that have played with her say that she's scummy in this game. So you just want me to trust you? How's that villa in any way at all - especially since youre scummy in my eyes? She's null to me. Null to town if I have to add an alignment because I liked sooh's reasoning (page 67) to what Tina said, and agreed with it. So please explain to me how MY vote on Tina will change anything?

 

I am being cooperative and answering questions, but I don't need this edge to your words. I'm already steamed.

 

I'm doing my job as a teammate and member of this village, but you, my teammates, could make it easier for me to not throw in the towel and say fudge it, lynch me. I don't care anymore.

I apologise. You are right, I have had the "edge".

 

I don't think a town will "I don't care anymore" though, ESPECIALLY after you JUST said that the pressure is on you when you're doing your town game.

 

 

#MINDMELD I also dont feel like you have anything to apologize for.  You were going after a suspect and you were in no way shape or form rude or mean.  Edge is fine being ignorant is not.  Its all the former and none of the latter imo.

 

Pizza's an adult and has played many games of Mafia where things happened that were over the top.  Like the game on 2+2 that I played with him and Sooh and people were making ignorant type comments and pokes concerning Sooh and Kawmi (prolly have the name wrong but shes played CAH with us before_ and though he was upset and spoke about it.  He was less upset about that then I feel like he is here and that doesnt sit right with me. 

[Cory Caboose]

lol kawamii

 

Zander I need a little push from you to follow through on Pizza here

 

Slap me in the face or something

[Zander?]

 

 

I try to save my strongest villager reads. As of right now those are Zander, BFG and Dice with a side of Cory. Neither of them are in danger. 

 

I'm less certain of Shad's guilt than Tina's, that's why my vote is where it is. I might change it closer to DL, but I won't change it to Pizza. Not today. 

 

 

So basically 2 (maybe more) of your top town reads (Me and Cory) are both sussing Pizza and yet you choose not to follow us on it.  Like 2 players that as Town have a pretty proven track record of lunching wolves.  I do get that Dice isnt about lynching Pizza and Ill have to double check about BFG irt Pizza but still its not making much sense to me but it's not damning or anything.  But like you don't even seem willing to CONSIDER that we are right and that CONCERNS me

 

AFAIK you both are not exempt from making mistakes. 

 

I refuse to sheep your every thought, especially when I think you're wrong.

 

 

We are absolutely not exempt from being wrong Sooh.  I dont expect you to sheep my every thought.  And OFC I can be wrong.  The issue I have with it is that you have Cory and myself as your top 2 towns reads.  So obv youve placed some trust in our two slots.  And its certainly ok to think that one of us is wrong but your suggesting that we BOTH are, and BOTH of us have proven track records that speak for themselves (IM NOT TRYING TO GLOAT OR BRAG HERE) its just simply the truth and you don't believe EITHER of us are correct on this.  Add on top of that the you're voting from Pizza's scum reads who is not in your top end town reads like we are over ours causes great concern for me.

 

Do you understand where I'm coming from with this Sooh?  Its straight up like youre not even willing to CONSIDER like I mentioned earlier that we could be right on this read,

[Zander?]

 

 

*snip*

 

I didn't like her play all game. Tbh the only reason she was high up in my first list was that she was sussing me, which is something she generally does as town and not as mafia. Her play from there on has been rather formulaic, nothing really surprising about her posts. She said one day that she would spend a lot of time in the thread (or at least I seem to recall that she did), but no real time interaction occurred from what I remember. 

 

In addition to that there's POE, where too many others seem more towny to me than she does. Also the reads from people I trust to be town plays into my read of her. I'm actually surprised that Cory hasn't pinned her firmly down as town or scum yet. 

 

All of these factor into my vote and subsequent comment that she's trending down for me.

 

 

 

So youre saying that you're vote on Tina wasn't OMGUS but based on Meta reasons that she tends to suss you as Town and not Mafia and that makes her scummy?  Am I missing something because that makes no sense to me at all?

 

Your vote seemed to stem from her push at Pizza as all you replied with was "trending down": atp.....

 

Regarding the bolded part:

 

She would have been further down on my initial list had she not suspected me. That particular piece of information had nothing directly to do with my vote.

 

 

 

But you can see how that can read to others though right?

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I try to save my strongest villager reads. As of right now those are Zander, BFG and Dice with a side of Cory. Neither of them are in danger.

 

I'm less certain of Shad's guilt than Tina's, that's why my vote is where it is. I might change it closer to DL, but I won't change it to Pizza. Not today.

 

So basically 2 (maybe more) of your top town reads (Me and Cory) are both sussing Pizza and yet you choose not to follow us on it. Like 2 players that as Town have a pretty proven track record of lunching wolves. I do get that Dice isnt about lynching Pizza and Ill have to double check about BFG irt Pizza but still its not making much sense to me but it's not damning or anything. But like you don't even seem willing to CONSIDER that we are right and that CONCERNS me

AFAIK you both are not exempt from making mistakes.

 

I refuse to sheep your every thought, especially when I think you're wrong.

We are absolutely not exempt from being wrong Sooh. I dont expect you to sheep my every thought. And OFC I can be wrong. The issue I have with it is that you have Cory and myself as your top 2 towns reads. So obv youve placed some trust in our two slots. And its certainly ok to think that one of us is wrong but your suggesting that we BOTH are, and BOTH of us have proven track records that speak for themselves (IM NOT TRYING TO GLOAT OR BRAG HERE) its just simply the truth and you don't believe EITHER of us are correct on this. Add on top of that the you're voting from Pizza's scum reads who is not in your top end town reads like we are over ours causes great concern for me.

 

Do you understand where I'm coming from with this Sooh? Its straight up like youre not even willing to CONSIDER like I mentioned earlier that we could be right on this read,

In her defense, I asked for an updated list and in it she does have Tina as her top scum. (Defense to ONLY that bit)