World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Shad_]

Pizza part 2

 

 

 

#718 -- calls Lenlo scum

 

#719 --

 

 

 

 

 

Well, answer me this: Do you think a scum player is more likely to "smudge" somebody, or to avoid a form of behavior which that player routinely criticizes as town?

I think it's far, far more likely they'd try to smudge someone without fully calculating out the repercussions, yes.

 

Not even a question.

 

Heh. I don't think that's something we'll see eye-to-eye on.

 

I think a lot of players fail to recognize what is generically scummy behavior, but most have a few tells they look for. The tells are often misguided, but for better or worse they are lodged in an individual's head as what scum do, and when they rand mafia they will be pretty self-conscious to avoid that sort of behavior. But as town, especially when the "scum tell" amounts to jack, a player is liable to repeatedly break his own rule and never realize it.

 

 

 

~~Quoted with my response, what I'm getting at here is that in NBC Lenlo was pretty relentless about insisting people take firm stances of town or scum on everybody. At this point in the game he'd repeatedly stated that he wasn't trying to call Dice scum earlier, and he'd waffled a lot on whether he thought Dice's further comments were actually scummy or not. I think a lot of players have a few key behaviors they look for when scum hunting, and whether these are reliable tells or not they will probably make a conscious effort to avoid doing them as scum. Scum!Lenlo is probably more likely to lay down a read on Dice in this scenario. I wanted to see if Pizza would ever reach this sort of conclusion.

 

#721 -- Says that there is no elaborate plan behind what he's doing with Lenlo

 

#723 -- calls Lenlo scum

 

#727 -- Lenlo asked Pizza if he'd even read Dice's post, said it made no sense to him. Pizza agrees, but says Dice showed no scummy motive, whereas Lenlo treated him as a wolf and then backpeddled. Pizza asks why Lenlo is redirecting the conversation to Dice if Lenlo isn't accusing Dice.

 

~~Lenlo's been arguing that he didn't find the post scummy, just stupid, and Pizza keeps bringing it back to no, Lenlo treated it as scummy. I don't really get where Lenlo is trying to "redirect" anything. It's the topic Pizza's been hounding on all along.

 

#729 -- Lenlo asked Pizza what he would do if Lenlo flips town. Pizza calls him scum.

 

#731 -- Zander had said Pizza is his strongest scum read but if he's wrong he'll follow up on Pizza's case on Lenlo. Pizza replies with "And Dice is a villager. And Cory is probably a villager. And you are. And kill anyone who says otherwise."

 

~~It kind of strikes me as blatant ass kissing at a glance. >_>

 

#733 -- says he's not smudging, he's blatantly calling Lenlo a wolf

 

#736 -- Lenlo brought up his question again of what Pizza will do if Lenlo flips town, since Pizza blew it off the first time. Pizza says the question doesn't help solve the game and brings up Lenlo "redirecting" the conversation onto Dice in #727

 

~~I kind of get the feeling that Pizza is just making up random crap at this point and flinging it with the force of titans, no offense if you're town. <_<

 

#740 -- irt #731 Lenlo had pointed out that Cory had called Dice scummy, so by Pizza's logic we'll have to kill Cory. Pizza responds with "Going for the inconsistency route? That's certainly specious, considering that Cory has said Dice is trending up."

 

~~Kind of grasping at straws from both parties tbh.

 

#742 -- Lenlo had challenged #733, Pizza responds with "Yes, it is completely different, and every single townie in this game with half a brain cell understands the difference between explicit voting and implicit smearing, wolf." ~~Agreed here.

 

#752 --

 

 

 

 

 

 

Btw, nowhere in your catchup did you answer my or Zanders concerns about you. Ignore me all you want, but Zander is someone you apparently have a town read on. Why ignore it?

 

Once again btw explain how every single thing I have done is scummy. Cause honestly, that takes alot of skill or bad luck to make every single thing someone does scummy.

I'm responding to your posts in seconds, and you're bringing up distractions, and you're calling it ignoring.

 

This is why real time is important.

 

Wolves resort to confusing the issues, and it only appears to be an equal fight on the surface, because you're spending all your time attacking, as am I.

 

But there's a difference between our attacks. Mine are honest, and are leading to a premise, whereas yours are pointing away and attempting to conflate and attempting to create sameness where there are differences.

 

That's the dishonesty.

 

That's the difference.

 

Responding to my posts in seconds by not responding to parts you dont care to.

Honest yet twisting my words.

Confusing issues by pointing you towards stated problems with your case about me.

Really?

 

Irrelevancies, red herrings, trivialities that don't solve or have nothing to do with my alignment, or yours, or Dices.

 

I haven't twisted any of your words. Not one.

 

Confusing matters by changing the subject, by invoking those red herrings.

 

Really.

 

 

 

~~My take away to this point is pretty much the exact opposite. Lenlo asked a lot of questions that I would have liked to hear answers to, Pizza spun all of them into reasons to call Lenlo scum instead of answering (and blew off my questions. and blew off Zander's questions). Lenlo did eventually transition into some bad points towards the end, but I kind of feel like he was forced into them because Pizza absolutely would not let him get a word in.

 

#753 -- calls Lenlo scum

 

#756 -- not ready to suss Nikon for inactivity

 

#757 -- says Sooh might be Lenlo's partner because she had no excuse to back off of him earlier, says Dice is never Lenlo's partner.

 

#764 -- says he's not worried if he dies today because Lenlo's scum and he'll just kill him at night

 

#766 -- says (I think in reference to #757?) that if Pizza was scum he wouldn't have suggested (Sooh was a wolf?); he'd have presented it more convincingly

 

#768 -- acknowledges that "if I was scum" posts are self-defeating

 

#777 -- Zander had asked Pizza if Lenlo could really be this obviously scummy when other good players in the game aren't terribly concerned about him. Pizza says that one player usually has to draw the attention before others will notice, cites his case on BFG in NBC. He says people will ignore Lenlo's actual content at this stage of the game because he is present and highly active. He also says:

 

"There are other things. Specious arguments, which on the surface appear plausible. It means any townie putting in the work, skimming to catch up, is going to see Lenlo and Dice arguing about something, and since Lenlo is on the attack and going BUT HOW COULD THIS NOT BE TOWNIE RARARARARARA all caps, some people not putting in the fine-tooth combing will go, yeah, maybe Lenlo is right, Dice doesn't have all his ducks in a row with his arguments, and it's a question which doesn't have a good rebuttal because it's an argument which begins with the implicit assumption that the idea is pro-town, being against it is anti-town, and obviously anyone who questions this pro-town thing is a questionable person, and he who points out the questionable person is likely to be town."

~~I don't really like the paraphrase, if he's going to get into nitpicking detail about it. Lenlo had said "IN WHAT WORLD DOES KEEPING TWO VCS TODAY HURT TOWN?" Pizza says it's a question that doesn't have a good rebuttal, but it's a pretty straight question. Yes it's encased in possibly fake frustration, but either you have a rebuttal or you agree. I thought it couldn't hurt but wouldn't really help either and would be a sort of pointless exercise, and I said as much. Pizza himself gave an explanation for how it could hurt, and that explanation was kind of crap, and when I challenged him on it he blew me off repeatedly.

 

Tells us to look at the argument they just had and we'll see that Lenlo was being dishonest and attempting to confuse everything. ~~I really just see Pizza saying that over and over again, not Lenlo doing it...

 

Emphasizes that they can't be w/w ~~I don't think it was w/w, but I think it's a little odd that Pizza's pointing this out?

 

Points out that others noticed Lenlo was being scummy too prior to the fight ~~and he was, for totally different reasons that still sketch me out a bit when I see them but don't bother me across the larger spectrum of content and aren't really relevant to the case Pizza presented.

 

#778 -- Lenlo had responded to Zander's question saying that when Lenlo asks the same questions Pizza calls it misdirection yet Pizza's probably going to either answer Zander or ignore him. Pizza bolds the italics above and mocks him by saying it has to be one or the other so Lenlo can't be wrong. ~~It's not like Lenlo had some profound point, but I don't really understand the point of pulling it out of context here.

 

 

#781 -- says Lenlo hasn't done jack to try and find scum yet besides an OMGUS vote, tells him to go try and figure out who the wolves are

 

#782 -- mocks Lenlo saying "HOW IN THE WORLD COULD THAT IDEA NOT BE PRO-TOWN"

 

#785 -- Lenlo had pointed out that he'd quit pushing for two vote counts once people offered legitimate criticism of the idea, Pizza makes fun of him, calls him scum, basically says that the suggestion itself was scummy so stepping away from it changes nothing.

 

#789 -- irt #781, Zander had said that he thinks Lenlo's content amounts to more than just OMGUS. Pizza replies that Lenlo's content consists of suggesting we intentionally lynch a town player, TMI spew that town will control the night kill if a town player gets lynched, smudging Dice, and an OMGUS vote, challenges Zander to prove otherwise.

 

#790 -- irt #785, Lenlo said that when he poked a whole in Pizza's case Pizza just resorted to insults. Pizza explains that Lenlo walking back the idea after people scum read him doesn't poke a hole in anything, tells Lenlo to convince Zander otherwise and not bother persuading Pizza because Pizza is a wolf. ~~dude's been joke claiming scum a lot in this game. I'm not going to not suss you because "you wouldn't do that as scum"...

 

#793 -- irt #789 Znader says it wasn't anything monumental but Len had at least posted a read list and commented on some other people. Pizza says the reads list consists of nothing but consensus towns, a bunch of nulls, and one other scum. Says he might have missed the Tina scum case but gets the premise that Len thinks she's tied to Pizza somehow.

 

#796 -- makes fun of Lenlo

 

#799 -- Lenlo said lynching two VCs wasn't scummy, and lynching town intentionally is scummy but he never advocated that. Pizza responds by asking Lenlo why he kept bringing up the town lynch scenario, says it's going to happen anyway if we don't catch scum, wants to know why it was the premise of several of his posts. Lenlo responds to this reiterating to him that under the condition that living players can't talk at night he still thinks the two VCs would have been a good idea, says what ultimately made him drop it was the rule change.

 

#804 -- Pizza says a large reason he thought Lenlo looked scummy was because he had made a lot of posts without hunting wolves. He says he saw what looked like a scum lean on Dice, and then Lenlo walked it back to a null comment. Says he's tracking so far. But then doesn't understand why Lenlo brought up Dice in their argument. Doesn't understand why Lenlo would interject him there unless he wanted Pizza to think Dice was scummy. Says if this is an honest misunderstanding it's Lenlo's obligation to walk him through it. Says that Lenlo is bad at communicating in real time so he'll slow down the pace a bit.

 

~~This is one too many leaps for me. Pizza got into Lenlo about how wanting two vote counts was scummy. When I called Pizza's argument bad and wouldn't let it drop he suddenly had been bothered by Lenlo's smudge on Dice all along, and he refused to discuss the two VCs topic further. After a while of Lenlo fighting the smudge argument and Zander not buying it, all of a sudden it was Lenlo's lack of scum hunting that had been bothering him along and why was Lenlo bringing Dice into the picture in the first place? But Pizza was the one who made this about Dice, when the two VCs = scummy argument didn't stick.

 

#806 -- points out that very few people are going to read Pizza's argument with Lenlo ~~I did. Sorry?

 

#814 -- I resurrected some more issues with the "two VCs = scummy" line:

 

 

 

 

 

 

A wolf who earns the "second VC" bullet isn't terribly deep though.

I didn't say they would be, but deeper than their partner the probable day lynchee.

 

But you kind of did.

 

In some games there is a possibility of a "deep wolf", a wolf so townie they'll slide right on by.

It was your entrypoint for the argument as to why scum benefit more than town from a runner-up vote count.

 

And I suppose it's a somewhat trivial distinction, but you've yet to convince me that you aren't just making up your answers on the fly.

 

I don't feel like you're understanding my argument, so you're contrasting two disparate parts of it inappropriately because you don't understand what I meant, and think they conflict.

 

How do I explain this. Simplify simplify

 

My premise is in a typical game, there can be a deep wolf sometimes, or they'll try to create one.

 

Suppose that the lynchee is a townie, but thinks the deep wolf is scum. Most people don't think the deep wolf is scum, that's why he's the deep wolf.

 

Suppose the lynchee dies and shoots the deep wolf. Alright, now that's bad, because what you have remaining are wolves that more townies actually think are wolves.

 

So how do you combat it?

 

If you have a heads-up that deep wolf could get shot, you don't hard town read him. Maybe start distancing sooner.

 

Shad, I'm a townie, and this makes absolutely 100 percent perfect sense in my head.

 

I understand my thought processes don't register in other people's brains at times. But I am not making this up on the fly. It is internally consistent, if you start with the premise of, what if the lynchee can suddenly fire back, which is the difference between this game and the usual.

 

A running tally of who the lynchee should shoot if town, could be used to give the wolves a heads up who they shouldn't town-read so hard.

 

Now, that's speaking from the perspective of a guy who has an intuitive feel for the usual dynamics, and my reaction to what the differences here could be, and how I'd exploit them if I'm in the shoes of someone who can't exactly silence a townie by lynching them.

 

How you get from there to where you're at is pure misunderstanding. Or I didn't explain my thought process well which contributed to it. I don't know.

 

It makes sense in my head. If it still doesn't in yours, I gotta shrug. I'll continue explaining if you're still not understanding.

 

 

 

--Basically the argument here is if the wolves know that one player in particular is on to their deep wolf, and that player is in line to get lynched, they'll know to distance in case he wouldn't have posted a reads list otherwise and he hero vigs instead of abiding by the collective NK vote count? Did I get that right? ~~I think it's an... intensely far stretch to believe that this might have crossed scum!Lenlo's mind. Or really anyone's mind prior to Pizza writing this post. <_< And if town!Pizza is really this paranoid about letting scum know who towns are sussing, why does he advocate that we all drop two scum we'd wtl, which is effectively the same thing?

 

#816 -- I had commented to Pizza that I did get the impression he was blowing Lenlo off and just shouting wolf. He explains that he did so where necessary to prevent Lenlo from attempting to derail their conversation.

 

#817 -- if Pizza was scum he would try to deepwolf, not lead a lynch on a town who is guaranteed to shoot him N1. Why would he invest so much time into this argument and his notes if he was planning to blow it all out the gate? ~~I actually came to this realization right at the same time and it really didn't make a bit of sense why he would do this as scum. I said as much in-game.

 

#823 -- Goes into more detail on why he would never do this as scum when Zander asks.

 

#824 -- irt #782 I pointed out that Pizza's suggestion wouldn't be "pro-town" based on the logic he used to argue 2VCs=Scummy. He said he was being sarcastic. Emphasizes that if there is one thing we should take away from the Pizza-Lenlo fight, it's that Pizza can't be scum because he would never do this as scum.

 

#825 -- Lenlo said Pizza probably thought Lenlo's mislynch would have been easier and he was forced to go all-in when the plan didn't pan out at first. Pizza said he could have backed out any time he wanted to and he'd been in complete control of the situation.

 

#826

 

You have to conclude I knew I would die if I managed to make you die.

 

To think otherwise is preposterous.

~~Should I be bothered that this statement assumes Lenlo is town?

 

#835 -- Zander had asked what Pizza would do if Lenlo flipped town ~~one of Lenlo's 'derailment' questions during the fight~~ Pizza says he would be embarassed and surely be the night kill, but he wouldn't be terribly bothered because "that's also 2 townies versus 1 wolf controlling the night lynch on night 2"

 

#866

 

 

 

 

Btw, I responded to Pizza's "Please to village Lenlo" but he hasnt gotten back to me yet. Lookin forward to it.

You reached the Yates Event Horizon.

 

So scummy and with dishonest arguments that for pages and pages, and hours and hours, I just think you're caught-er and caught-er scum, and then it dawns on me that you're a townie because a scum wouldn't do X.

 

Why "Yates" event horizon, because he faked a guilty result on me in game three, and made a mistake with his leans list which added an extra person to the game, hilariously, and it got worse and worse for hours and hours, so I just assumed he was caught and smirked my happy smirk and kept taking potshots at him here and there, until dat moment when I saw he had a legitimate reason to act that way.

 

If you were a scumbag, you probably would have walked away a few posts after the screw me post. I don't get what is accomplished by continued camping in the thread after all that.

 

I'm not saying you'd be scared of me or something, as a wolf, it just isn't accomplishing any kind of scum aim.

 

While I can't clear you for the same reason why I should look town objectively, since I was the aggressor in our tiff, there's a different kind of futility at work in that I think that a very large number of scumbags would not be sitting here right now still talking to me. It's going nowhere and you had a natural exit point, several of them, and you're still camping.

 

I've never used this town-tell before and may never again. I also can't say you're fully clean.

 

But that washes away a ton of that suspicion.

 

Unvote

 

I really wanted to go to bed thinking I've accomplished something more major than partly clearing a scum read. I can't say that. But it has been useful to me, particularly if this is correct.

 

PS- Yates Event Horizon is now trademarked, and probably won't ever be used as a town-tell again.

 

 

 

--clears Lenlo as twtbaw and because Lenlo didn't back down when realistically any scum would have in the scenario, says it's the first and possibly last time he clears someone for this reason and makes an exceptionally big deal about it

 

 

 

~~This is where I'm completely ready and willing to lynch him. I think his treatment of Lenlo up to this point was pretty intensely scummy. He blew off every counterpoint Zander and I made building up to his argument with Lenlo, he crafted everything Lenlo said into an excuse to call him scummy, he repeatedly changed the reasons he was calling Lenlo scummy to suit the moment, and it all built up to the moment of being able to convincingly state that he would never do this as scum. Job done, Lenlo was free to go with a lofty proclamation that amounted to very little.

 

No, I don't think scum!Pizza would be so eager to mislynch Lenlo that he would throw his game doing it on D1. Pizza is right. That would be stupid. Do I think he might pick low hanging fruit to go ape on for the opportunity to convince us he can't be scum? It's not like anyone was getting speed lynched with four players online. The fight felt fabricated. The unvote felt fabricated. The reason he can 'never be scum' dissolves to nothing if there was never a real commitment to lynching Lenlo in the first place. If a player is trying to trick people into town reading him instead of actually hunting scum, like he did pretty effectively in our last two games together, that's probably a sign.

 

And that's where I'm stopping. It's almost 4am. I recognize that I'm missing a full day of content from him afterwards. If my reasons are outdated, figure it out. I'll try my best to keep going when I am able.

[Shad_]

And good night. My wife has an appointment in the city tomorrow. Don't expect me on before about 7 or 8pm.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay, different question. Again for everyone because this one is important.

 

What are your two strongest reads? Doesn't matter if it's a wolf read or a village read. What are the two most confident reads you have this game that you'd bet the house on if you had to?

 

For me, it's Zander villager and BFG villager, but I think I've stated that already.

 

Never lynch Cory (borderline sabotage comment comes from town cory imo, blows away all the doubt)

 

Never lynch Zander (despite his bad towning toward me)

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think the thing to keep in mind with Pizza coming back in is that A) he was lead wagon in a game with ~2 days to deadline and B) there really wasn't anyone defending him and his wagon wasn't going to dissipate on its own.

 

There's a genuine element to some of his posts on re-entry but Pizza is a good wolf and would absolutely go into damage control to try and escape. He's not the type to lay down without a fight in either role.

 

I'd probably be a lot more willing to back off Pizza entirely if I hadn't seen similar bouts of posting from players like Tom (and hell, myself) in order to get back on enough people's good side to dodge a lynch and give myself time to wiggle back up the PoE.

 

I think Sooh village reading Pizza for it is genuine, though.

 

Attacking Shad and Tina who were not voters for me at the time- unless they're my wolf buddies, that's pretty dumb.

 

And even if they were my wolf buddies, that's also dumb because it's one of the first things that would pop into your head.

 

Haven't caught up, but for the record- the lynch on me is godawful.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was sleeping Z. I'm out for winter break so no way I'm waking up before 10.

 

Also... as much as I hate to admit ir... I don't hate Pizzas posts. They arnt bad at all, now that he is talking to someone other than me he completely lost that feeling of TMI/Already decided alignments I hated before.

 

Vote needs to migrate. Swallow your pride and do the townie dance.

[Nolder]

 

 

 

And with that finally posted, [v]Lenlo[/v]

 

I believe his plan at the start of the game was egregious and shouldn't be allowed to stand.

It was scummy, pure and simple.

 

is that really your best reason for your vote on Len?

 

It's the only reason that really matters.

 

 

 

As much as i enjoy this response I still think its not much of a reason imo.  Give me some other thoughts on him just to humor me if you don't mind Nol.

 

I left out things he said during his long arguments on purpose. Because I didn't want to rehash them and get bogged down in discussion about things that don't really matter. He should be lynched for his plan and that alone, no other reason should be necessary imo.

 

Let me give you an example of what I mean.

Say there's a guy. He doesn't pay his taxes, he robs a liquor store, he runs a red light, and then he murders a baby.

You're really not going to care that he didn't pay his taxes or ran that red light. You probably wont even care he robbed the store.

The only thing that matters is he murdered the baby. That's how I see the Lenlo situation. Whether or not he did anything else wrong is imo irrelevant.

 

But here are my expanded thoughts anyway just for you.

 

 

 

 

Starting with his very first post he's looking to gain Cory and Xanders approval. Xander fine ok maybe even then everyone was town reading him but personally I felt off about Cory for a long time so the attitude bothered me. Like he knew they were town and wanted to buddy up.

 

Post 129 he makes mention of wanting a villager card again which is a reason why I was keeping an eye out for Cory giving those out.

 

Don't like how he promised to kill Nomi "99% of the time" in post #724

 

Marks Nomi as the only person he'd like to lynch in a reads list. I don't agree and feel he should have an alternative suspect by now. Who's Nomi's teammates if he's mafia you know?

 

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Then lynch Pizza imo.  Chances of killing scum significantly > 0% and if he flips town you'll probably get your wish tonight.

 

@ All

 

Reverse the order.

 

Both Pizza and Shad still die, but true town heroes revealed.

[Guest]

Hi guys; catching up...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Another stupid conditional thing: Shad and Pizza have a fair share of wolf-wolf equity. They've acted supremely weird around eachother most of this phase, and little pinpricks went off in my brain when Shad mentioned Pizza in his "initial do not trust list" with me and Zander per his recognition of Pizza as a "high tier player".

 

I don't think Shad makes assumptions about a player's wolf game like that. He just seems more visceral than that.

 

I can #erase that wolf-wolf equity.

 

I'm still trying to use the force, while I am hashtag alive and hashtag not a robot.

 

But should I completely control the night lynch? Shad dies.

 

If I flip wolf and don't shoot Shad? The universe will come to an utter screeching halt, and protons and electrons will mingle with one another and have babies that look like Donald Trump, only with less comb-over.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Odds of me flipping wolf are about the same as Cory becoming a mute.

[Nolder]

Making a mistake lynching Nomi imo.

Lenlo is wolfier than he is.

If you want, lynch neither and let them continue to argue.

I am ok with switching to Sooh if the crowd is against lynching Lenlo for now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I won't be arguing with Lenlo (about his alignment anyway) anymore.

 

I hate letting wolves go free so I wouldn't have unvoted him if he was anywhere near more likely to be scummy than not.

 

He's not blue because godawful opening-midday. But he's not where the wolves are.

 

The wolves are contained within Tina and Shad.

 

Sooh not voting Shad is problem.

[Pralaya]

 

Assassin in the palace, all alt accounts named Zander, real one's the king.

 

 

imo

 

lololololololololol

 

RIP Lemmy

 

Zander with a creepy post.

[Sooh]

 

 

id vote shad  not pizza

 

 

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

 

 

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe"   not a fan

 

Dice so towny!

[Pralaya]

 

Assassin in the palace, all alt accounts named Zander, real one's the king.

 

 

imo

 

lololololololololol

 

RIP Lemmy

 

Zander, that was creepy coincidence.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Add a point to Nolder's village equity.

 

The reads list he posted around this point looks a little like someone who read halfway through the game and decided those leans based on stuff up to that point but no further.

 

Curiosity question- @Nolder, is this about right? Or was this based on 100 percent of the thread read up to the point of the leans list?

 

My read on Lenlo migrated. Did you see my reasons for not pushing him more? I know not everyone absorbed it on the first flyby.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

 

 

I'm still going to try and change that read even if you're intent on not moving it. Consider it a personal flaw of mine 

Then give me something new?

 

 

Ask me literally anything. Any slot, any read, a question why I did anything I did, anything you want. I'll give you a full and honest answer to the best of my ability, no tricks or coryisms or joking asides.

 

Why Shad over Pizza?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still going to try and change that read even if you're intent on not moving it. Consider it a personal flaw of mine 

Then give me something new?

 

 

Ask me literally anything. Any slot, any read, a question why I did anything I did, anything you want. I'll give you a full and honest answer to the best of my ability, no tricks or coryisms or joking asides.

 

Why Shad over Pizza?

 

 

You want an honest answer?

 

I probably had Pizza maybe a tick below Shad on my list, but at the time of my vote switch there was already a comfortable Pizza wagon and I didn't feel like me throwing my weight there made any significant difference; you have to lynch all of the wolves, not one wolf. I moved to Shad to hopefully develop meaningful pressure and let Shad know that time was of the essence, a test in which I think he fell flat and proved that he really isn't all that interested in solving this game.

 

But the majority of the purpose was, yes, to shake Shad up a little and make sure he knew someone was watching him. Pizza voted him, but what did Shad have to fear from Pizza? I'm a different animal altogether and had significantly more clout than Pizza did at the time.

 

Where I am at now with both of them is a little more complicated. I think there is a significant chance both of them are wolves outright.

 

As to whom I vote and push when EOD arrives is a question I'll answer at EOD when I know the answer better than I do now (lol). But at that point and probably still now I don't think pressure is really going to shift Pizza is any direction; he knows he's on the block and could go at any time, and it's up to him to respond to that however he pleases.

 

There's a backside note that during Pizza's re-entry he pushed Shad and Tina in ways that I felt could very much be w/w and an attempt to counterspew a wolf partner (specifically, his vote landed on Shad).

 

 

That's a terrible way to lose two wolves within the first couple of days of play, Cory.

 

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

"Let us raid Zander's wardrobe! If we find pants aflame, we'll know he's a dirty liar!"

*opens wardrobe*  See only Villager Blue in here!!!!!

I'm a villager and I can prove it:

 

OMW lol. Bonus points for the keyboard though.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Dice

 

 

Yes Dice

Goodbye Wolf

 

Somebody wanna explain what I have to do with these 2 posts?

I felt the same way when I read it. Left me like... HUH?

 

 

@ cory

 

let me guess.  Youre nodding.

 

 

nods

*nods*

 

 

 

 

I'm grounded from Mafia tomorrow night fwiw for lady reasons. Advance warning.

RIP me

Really unnecessary. :/

 

 

TinaPizzaShad wagons people

 

Let's get with the program

Change that to TinaPizzaSooh and I'll join.

 

And only because I trust you people with Tina experience.

 

>.>

 

<.<

 

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad  not pizza

 

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe"   not a fan

Not true AT ALL. Have you even read the thread?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

If you honestly think that saying my kid is sick is a scum tell

 

Nobody is saying that. But it's certainly something that you could subconsciously use as Mafia as an explanation for your lack of interest in a game.

 

It's what I hear from wolves a lot - my work schedule tightened up, I'm not feeling well, I'm stressed, etc. etc. and that's the reason I'm not playing the way I usually do. I'm not saying that they are lying - they very likely aren't, and yes, life creeps up on all of us - but I think it's a great deal easier for someone to mentally disconnect from a game where they are doing something that most people find unpleasant - active and continued deception, which usually takes a fair degree of endurance - than something like villaging, which can have moments of catharsis.

 

tl;dr - I think it's more likely for a wolf to come home after a long day / wake up / finally get free time and go "I don't really have the time for Mafia" than a villager in general.

 

If that's rough to hear, blame the wolves of the past who have slanked and used real life as their rationale. They may not be liars, but they were still wolves.

 

 

(bolding Cory's)

 

Boomshakalaka for this entire post

 

[Sooh]

Adding Dice to my top town reads. 

 

The site ate the post where I quoted and stuff.

[Nolder]

I won't be arguing with Lenlo (about his alignment anyway) anymore.

 

I hate letting wolves go free so I wouldn't have unvoted him if he was anywhere near more likely to be scummy than not.

 

He's not blue because godawful opening-midday. But he's not where the wolves are.

 

The wolves are contained within Tina and Shad.

 

Sooh not voting Shad is problem.

I'm confused.

Are you saying you think Lenlo is 3rd party?

[Sooh]

I won't be arguing with Lenlo (about his alignment anyway) anymore.

 

I hate letting wolves go free so I wouldn't have unvoted him if he was anywhere near more likely to be scummy than not.

 

He's not blue because godawful opening-midday. But he's not where the wolves are.

 

The wolves are contained within Tina and Shad.

 

Sooh not voting Shad is problem.

Why?

 

I could vote him.

 

I wasn't confident on my slightly towny read of him before, and I'm still not convinced he's a wolf, but I'm willing to trust others on this read because I've proven before that I can't catch ShadWolf.

 

Right now I'm more comfortable with Tina though, and seeing as she's one of your wolves, why is it a problem that I'm voting for her and not your other wolf?

[Nolder]

 

Add a point to Nolder's village equity.

 

The reads list he posted around this point looks a little like someone who read halfway through the game and decided those leans based on stuff up to that point but no further.

 

Curiosity question- @Nolder, is this about right? Or was this based on 100 percent of the thread read up to the point of the leans list?

 

My read on Lenlo migrated. Did you see my reasons for not pushing him more? I know not everyone absorbed it on the first flyby.

 

 

I did some rereading to remind myself of a few things (such as why i had a good feeling about Shad early on) but I wouldn't say I've read 100% of the thread.

I wouldn't say I stopped halfway or anything either though. 

 

Fwiw your posts are the ones I skim the most.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

I won't be arguing with Lenlo (about his alignment anyway) anymore.

 

I hate letting wolves go free so I wouldn't have unvoted him if he was anywhere near more likely to be scummy than not.

 

He's not blue because godawful opening-midday. But he's not where the wolves are.

 

The wolves are contained within Tina and Shad.

 

Sooh not voting Shad is problem.

I'm confused.

Are you saying you think Lenlo is 3rd party?

 

 

No. Not sure where you'd think that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

I won't be arguing with Lenlo (about his alignment anyway) anymore.

 

I hate letting wolves go free so I wouldn't have unvoted him if he was anywhere near more likely to be scummy than not.

 

He's not blue because godawful opening-midday. But he's not where the wolves are.

 

The wolves are contained within Tina and Shad.

 

Sooh not voting Shad is problem.

Why?

 

I could vote him.

 

I wasn't confident on my slightly towny read of him before, and I'm still not convinced he's a wolf, but I'm willing to trust others on this read because I've proven before that I can't catch ShadWolf.

 

Right now I'm more comfortable with Tina though, and seeing as she's one of your wolves, why is it a problem that I'm voting for her and not your other wolf?

 

 

I don't know.

 

I was thinking you were specifically avoiding lynching Shad.

 

But the math doesn't work out, if I die, Shad dies, so you're not really saving him.

 

You'd actually do better to help me lynch Shad in the Sooh-Shad universe. So that thought doesn't hold.