World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Cory Caboose]

What was odd about my unvote / switch to Pizza, BFG?

[Niniel]

Tina I'm guess that's Zander = v and Pizza = w?

 

Yes. Sooh is on the same level as Pizza.

[Cory Caboose]

But you're infinitely better at this game than I am, and I don't recall you needing meta on Zander in April Fools, or anyone in Twilight.

I don't want you to force reads and I can expand on my Bessie read if necessary, it's more nuanced than that above, but it might as well (imo) wait until I get to her ISO.

 

 

Zander was obvious in April Fools, though. He was the lead poster and literally said everything that ever entered his head. That wasn't a hard read, as Zander is an exceptionally open player, even then.

Besie is a far more closed player and I can't really see into the back of her head like I can with Z, even when I didn't "know" Z.

[Nolder]

Zander - Clearly town imo. Not much else to say here.

Cory - Cory I still feel a little weird about but his gameplay says town and I feel comfortable bumping him up to this level. I was kind of hoping to see who he'd give "village cards" to but iirc he hasn't given any yet.

 

BFG - She's hitting all the right town notes but it just feels off. Like I said she would be my candidate for deep wolf right now. She's asking a lot of questions and getting reads and responding when asked. It's all good townie behavior. I just don't get the impression that she's DOING anything with that information. I could be wrong though.

AskThePizzaGuy - Mostly effort but a little POE as well. The way he's interacted with people like Lenlo, Sooh, Xander, and a couple others leads me to believe he's probably town. It's hard to tell though because of the sheer volume of posts many of which are quite wordy. Regardless I think someone who puts so much effort into the game always deserves to pass D1 at the very least.

 

Tina - Tina has had a couple ups and downs for me this game. Can't make up my mind.

Shad - Shad I initially felt good about because he called out a weird statement by Lenlo on page 7 but since then he's dropped back to null for me. I don't like how he engaged me and then just dropped the matter. Maybe he felt like the discussion was over but I never really got the impression that it concluded.

Nikon - Pretty obvious why he's null. Hope to hear not just thoughts but maybe a case soon.

 

BLomBessie - Maybe it's because I've never played with her before but I'm leaning scum. She took a hedging stance on Lenlo's plan, then she came back and condemned him, then later voted him. It seemed to me like she was being led down a predictable path rather than organically coming to a conclusion on Lenlo. She randomly unvoted him later with no explanation and then took his side against Nomi with regards to their argument. It's nothing I can say is scummy really (except for the unvote) but it does tingle my wolfy senses.

Dice - Got really...snarky with Lenlo early in the game. Seemed manufactured imo. Doubly so because he backed off and unvoted Lenlo with a TWTBAW argument. His reasoning for wanting to hypothetically shoot me was non existant and cloaked in a joke. And beyond that...he hasn't really done much else imho. Had some back and forth with Cory and Xander after Lenlo but lately he's been MIA. 

 

Sooh - This may seem OMGUS-esque but I don't care. I didn't like how she seemed to defend Nomi at th start of the game and then imo she got overdefensive about it. And you can't say it was just me because she got into it with Xander shortly after when he called her out as well.

Lenlo - I think there's a lot that could be said about Lenlo but I don't want to get bogged down in the details. The biggest thing, the thing that matters, was his very bad plan he was trying to push at the start of the game. He says it was a mistake but I think he backed off it because he was getting so much heat.

[BFG]

Meh, not going to let it be a distraction.

Just sad for me. If you can't read me villager comfortably in this game, you probably just can't read me villager. Which means our village/village team will remain an unrequited love. My poor heart 

<3

 

I am reading you as town, just not as confidently as other people

 

Don't say stuff like that, Laine's probably scary when she wants to be

[Nolder]

And with that finally posted, [v]Lenlo[/v]

 

I believe his plan at the start of the game was egregious and shouldn't be allowed to stand.

It was scummy, pure and simple.

[Cory Caboose]

Honestly there are just personality types I read better than others. I have always had problems with Sensory types, which Besie looks to be, as opposed to ENFP Zander or INTP you or Tina, who is some NF/NT form almost assuredly.

 

I understand Zander and what he does on an intuitive level I can't really describe and always have; hell, ask him.

 

I can't understand Besie the same way naturally, so I have to be more reliant on other tools which I just don't have aorn.

 

Does that make sense?

[Cory Caboose]

Don't say stuff like that, Laine's probably scary when she wants to be

 

[Cory Caboose]

And fwiw I don't think I'm "better than you" - I think you are exactly as capable as I am at making reads, maybe not with the same level of aplomb and false confidence, but you are certainly pretty goddamn apt and it's one of the major reasons I'm extending such an effort to work with you.

 

I'm here to help, not to demean you. A lot of what I do as a villager is just resell reads from good players and make them louder.

[Cory Caboose]

Add a point to Nolder's village equity.

[BFG]

What was odd about my unvote / switch to Pizza, BFG?

I think it was a timing thing, I'd have to look back and check.

 

There were a number of people voting, then a number of people unvoted around the same time and it seemed odd. Your unvote of Tina stood out more, probably because it was on Tina and I recall something similar from Ragnarok so was surprised by it?

[Cory Caboose]

 

What was odd about my unvote / switch to Pizza, BFG?

I think it was a timing thing, I'd have to look back and check.

 

There were a number of people voting, then a number of people unvoted around the same time and it seemed odd. Your unvote of Tina stood out more, probably because it was on Tina and I recall something similar from Ragnarok so was surprised by it?

 

 

I don't remember ever unvoting Tina. I remember the following:

 

I asked people, specifically Zander, if they had one shot and had to hit a wolf to win, who they would shoot. My intention was to throw my vote behind whatever Zander's answer was, because Zander has been very obvious and putting a lot of effort into this game and generally makes very good reads but has trouble getting the weight to push them through.

 

Zander said Pizza. I voted Pizza.

 

Maybe that seems simple or dumb, but that's what I did.

[Nolder]

In addition to my reads list I'd just like to say that most of them revolve around Lenlo one way or another which is why I absolutely prefer lynching him over Sooh.

[BFG]

And fwiw I don't think I'm "better than you" - I think you are exactly as capable as I am at making reads, maybe not with the same level of aplomb and false confidence, but you are certainly pretty goddamn apt and it's one of the major reasons I'm extending such an effort to work with you.

 

I'm here to help, not to demean you. A lot of what I do as a villager is just resell reads from good players and make them louder.

I do, but thanks :)

 

Again, I'm not trying to work against you but my read is where it is and isn't going to change today without something new

 

And at no point do I think you're trying to demean me and I'm not implying that you are.

 

We can talk afterwards if you want?

[Cory Caboose]

I'm still going to try and change that read even if you're intent on not moving it. Consider it a personal flaw of mine 

[BFG]

 

Ok I'm delving into ISOs tonight. Extended family gathering tomorrow so I won't be around during the day, but will be around before deadline.

 

Before ISO's I can't say I'm that different to the consensus

 

Zander

Lenlo

Sooh

 

Cory

Besie

 

Dice

Nolder

 

Nikon

Shad

Tina

Pizza

 

Groups are only vaguely ordered.

 

Zander seems inquisitive this game, isn't focusing in one place too much

 

Sooh's difficult to explain, I haven't disagreed with any of her reads this game, or positions in thread.

 

Lenlo is mostly his response to pressure and his mechanics thoughts.

 

 

 

Cory is difficult. He hasn't hit any of the reliable tells I have for his mafia game, there are a few points of minor concern - his lack of read on Besie is one, the lack of follow through with a reread is another. In general I feel he's cruising in his 70% range which is both town and mafia for him, I agree with most of his posts and reads. Need him to ramp it up to 90+ to be more confident and not tinfoil.

 

Besie isn't pinging me this game like Diablo. She's acting differently, but I don't know that's her town game and there are very very minor things I disagree with /shrug

 

 

 

Nolder seems pretty relaxed so far, mostly waiting for more from him.

 

Dice I feel I should have a stronger opinion of him, I remember feeling better about him, but can't remember why and this is a pretty major concern.

 

 

 

Bottom 4 has a large element of POE about them, and less reason to feel 'good'

 

Nikon is almost completely null and here by POE. His 'catch up' seems focused on things that don't seem important to me, but I have knowledge of previous games he doesn't have. His catch-up didn't take him much past his first posts so I don't know why he couldn't have posted that much from the start. Desperately need him to start playing.

 

Shad I'm having a hard time remembering his stances, I get being busy in RL, but that doesn't stop him being mafia either. He's made a few observations I like, but there's something missing. His recent post about voting Pizza and if Pizza dies he'll kill Shad as well, while he's voting Nolder seems all sort of off. I like his position on Sooh

 

Tina is interesting, she's not addressing Cory, I remember in past games where Tina's been town and Cory mafia she's pretty much blackmailed him into reading her correctly and this game she seems more passive. Cory's unvote was 'odd'. Her initial posts were very focused, since then she's broadened a bit, but I'm left a bit /meh

 

Pizza is always going to be the same things; he seems more surface level this game, he hasn't handled multiple suspects, his reads aren't as well explained. BUT he's more aggressive than, say, Middle Earth, he's excusing differences in his mafia game, which is something he did that game and I don't remember from his town games. I will try to do a real meta search here, but that will come after ISO's from this game.

 

 

This doesn't feel right at this point, but I'm not sure why.

 

Odd things that probably aren't important

 

Pizza and Cory are both reading Besie conditionally on Zanders read of her.

 

Cory's unvote of Tina was really interesting timing, although I'm not sure what to make of that right now

 

I can´t get too focused on Cory and making him satisfied. I´ll play and I hope he will see me as town. Cory is going up and down between null and town. I don´t base that on what he believes about me. I haven´t found anything scummy with his play so far. He doesn´t seem to have an agenda. (But... I need to add a but... I´m not sure I would notice if he had one.) 

 

I don´t see how you (or anyone) can have Sooh that high on the list.

 

To answer Cory´s earlier question: Right now I´m most sure about Zander and Pizza. I wish I could be as sure about Dice as I was earlier but he hasn´t done much lately. 

 

From the posts I have read today not much have changed my mind. I think I just need a flip. If people would rather vote Sooh than Pizza then I´m okay with jumping on that train.

 

Sooh is someone I should probably ISO before being so certain because so many people read her lower. I've just felt in-sync with her pretty much all game and can't explain it better than that, she could be another Talya though

[Cory Caboose]

I have Sooh in light green as well, mostly for her general attitude and I think she's made some alright posts.

 

I don't really see what everyone else sees.

[BFG]

I'm still going to try and change that read even if you're intent on not moving it. Consider it a personal flaw of mine 

Then give me something new?

[BFG]

 

 

What was odd about my unvote / switch to Pizza, BFG?

I think it was a timing thing, I'd have to look back and check.

 

There were a number of people voting, then a number of people unvoted around the same time and it seemed odd. Your unvote of Tina stood out more, probably because it was on Tina and I recall something similar from Ragnarok so was surprised by it?

 

 

I don't remember ever unvoting Tina. I remember the following:

 

I asked people, specifically Zander, if they had one shot and had to hit a wolf to win, who they would shoot. My intention was to throw my vote behind whatever Zander's answer was, because Zander has been very obvious and putting a lot of effort into this game and generally makes very good reads but has trouble getting the weight to push them through.

 

Zander said Pizza. I voted Pizza.

 

Maybe that seems simple or dumb, but that's what I did.

 

Ok, I'll either come across it or will follow through with a reread when I can

[Cory Caboose]

 

I'm still going to try and change that read even if you're intent on not moving it. Consider it a personal flaw of mine 

Then give me something new?

 

 

Ask me literally anything. Any slot, any read, a question why I did anything I did, anything you want. I'll give you a full and honest answer to the best of my ability, no tricks or coryisms or joking asides.

[BFG]

Add a point to Nolder's village equity.

Like the non-conformity even if I disagree with his reads :)

[Nolder]

 

 

I'm still going to try and change that read even if you're intent on not moving it. Consider it a personal flaw of mine 

Then give me something new?

 

 

Ask me literally anything. Any slot, any read, a question why I did anything I did, anything you want. I'll give you a full and honest answer to the best of my ability, no tricks or coryisms or joking asides.

 

Who's lynch would give us the most information on other players?

[Cory Caboose]

Do you understand my pain BFG?

 

I think we're on the same exact page on 99% of this game. Your reads list is almost identical to mine. I feel like I can see everything you are seeing and most of your posts exactly explain feelings I have that even I am unable to vocalize legibly or willing to vocalize.

 

We were born to village together this game, but you have to take my hand and walk into the valley of the shadow. It requires trust, trust in someone you know has the capability to deceive, but trust regardless. This is my village game: I've extended that trust to you and Zander, and if I felt comfortable enough I'd look for more people I feel deserve it.

 

I know we're not really in conflict, but I'm asking you to go beyond conflict and trust in me. For the sake of the cohesion for this village, so that I know I'll have someone to rely on when the cards are on the table, so I know I have someone who has my back when I'm not here.

 

Do you understand?

[BFG]

 

 

I'm still going to try and change that read even if you're intent on not moving it. Consider it a personal flaw of mine 

Then give me something new?

 

 

Ask me literally anything. Any slot, any read, a question why I did anything I did, anything you want. I'll give you a full and honest answer to the best of my ability, no tricks or coryisms or joking asides.

 

Why Shad over Pizza?

[Cory Caboose]

Who's lynch would give us the most information on other players?

 

That was a BFG-only proposition, sorry.

 

And I don't really believe in conditional-villager flips; I think when a villager flips you learn nothing and gain nothing but a dead villager. The only goal is to lynch a wolf, not gather information. You gather far better information reading the thread.