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chongjasmine

Least favorite character?

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So far (im only up to the end of the third book), its gotta be Min.

 

could you elaborate?

She just seems a but useless. Ok she can see visions and hints of a persons future/death. Im only up to the fourth book but right now she seems unecessary.

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Elaida was duped into deposing Suan Sanche by the Black Ajah, so she didn't really have followers. The Younglings are pretty much her only supporters for a time. Elaida was an easy pawn to manipulate in the first place. It has been 10+ years since I read the series, and I am slowly catching back up again. I hate Elaida. Red Ajah should feel deeply ahamed to have her.

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It didn't take much to convince/dupe her since she didn't like the blues or Siuan.  So she would jump at any chance to to bring Siuan down.  Not to mention like most Reds she had a resentment that it had been so long since a red had been Amyrlin.  I think you see every Red Amyrlin has been a disaster.

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Not true. There are some good Reds, and I feel strongly that there is a valid reason to have them while the taint exists. Elaida was just a bad example of her Ajah, made a horrible Amyrlin seat due to her biases, and was just an overall embarrassment to the gender.

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I never said all red were bad.  But both Red's who had been Amyrlin before Elaida had both been removed from power.  According to Siuan in TGH "Tetsuan who betrayed Manetheren for jealousy of Elisande's powers, and Bonwhin, who tried to use Artur Hawkwing for a puppet to control the world and so nearly destroyed Tar Valon.  Both of the Red, and  both replaced by Amrylin from the blue.  The reason there has not been an Amyrlin chosen from the red since Bonwhin., and the reason the Red Ajah will take any pretext to pull down an Amyrlin from the blue, all wrapped neatly together."  So not that all reds are evil and bad just politics is politics and who play politcs more then the Aes Sedai?  Also as seen with the tower breaking the ajahs don't really get along very well anyway and seem to look to undermine other ajah's.  Not to mention just the reds outlook might make them bad  choices.  As Moriane explained in TGH "I cannot understand this apparent alliance between the Greens and Reds.  Their beliefs, their attitudes toward men, their views of the purpose of Aes Sedai, are completely opposite." Also when describing Egwene and Nyn to Siuan "  And there is no chance these two will choose the red.  They are amused by men, exasperated by them, but they do like the,."  So my guess is reds make bad amyrlins because most of them have very similar outlooks and mindsets like a general dislike of men.

Edited by Sabio

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about Faile, the most reasonable reasons to dislike/hate her seem to occur in Dragon Reborn and Shadow Rising; to me, she seems to improve after those books.

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There are reds I think that would make passable Amyrlins, it's just that they can't rise high enough. Pevara was a sitter but I think that's as far as she would've gone because she muttered about wanting a warder.

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I really, really don't like Elayne. She always annoyed me. I also seem to be the only person who doesn't like Min. Her role is basically "useless clingy love interest who occasionally uses foreshadowing in attempt to be useful."

 

Agree.  Min was pretty useless.

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Not true. There are some good Reds, and I feel strongly that there is a valid reason to have them while the taint exists. Elaida was just a bad example of her Ajah, made a horrible Amyrlin seat due to her biases, and was just an overall embarrassment to the gender.

 

Yes!  I hated the Reds in the books until I thought more deeply about them.  I also think they will have a role post Last Battle.

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about Faile, the most reasonable reasons to dislike/hate her seem to occur in Dragon Reborn and Shadow Rising; to me, she seems to improve after those books.

 

I have been rereading TCoS and the entire first portion of the book is about Perrin and him missing faile with them finally meeting again and having some sexual encounter. ugh, all the romantic banter perrin had for faile was enough to make anyone sick. I mean ok, I get it, he missed her a lot, but do we need 4 chapter detailing every breath that he didn't take because he thought she had been harmed....??

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Crown of Swords?  from what I recall, there was more stuff in the first chapters than just he missing Faile.  and the sexual stuff after they met seemed to be off screen.

 

edit::  the only on screen sex I recall was between Rand & Min.  first time after Rand is told about Fel and Min comes back from finding Caroline.  second & last time, one of Mat's taveren visions; I think when Mat is talking with Aludra about her "dragons".

and the closest besides those seems to be between Rand & Elayne; after Rand's 3 lovers bond him and when the other 2 women are talking with each other.

Edited by mb

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.

 

I would also like to add my thoughts to those early Perrin Crown of Swords chapters too, that at first I was wondering what the hell was wrong with goofy Perrin, but now, I feel that it pays off at the very end of 'A Memory of Light' when this bizarre plot actually merges into the main one -

(Perrin being able to overcome a certain Forsaken's Compulsion at the Light side's most desperate hour)

That was a great AHHHHH moment for me. *BRILLIANT*!!!  It gave all that Perrin brooding about his wife in his plot, new meaning to the whole story. It was not just story filler. It now had a very important purpose, as It now puts those chapters into a brand new light during rereads. Pretty darn cool, if you ask me.

 

And also, another neat payoff in those same early chapters from the book, was Perrin's final sentence in at the end of chapter 6-

 

.

"Where Faile was, was home." 

 

And as we see waaaaay later in book 13 tToM in the aptly named chapter 'The Strength of This Place': is when Perrin is having difficulty in his Wolf Dream training, Hopper teaches him to use his home(Two Rivers) to be able to use the strength in him to be able to master the wolf dream. As Perrin no longer really has a home, he uses Faile in it's place. And of note, this is immediately after Perrin and Faile's Shanna'har chapter too. Which is important:

 

"He was in the wolf dream. His body slumbered in the real world, on this hilltop, with Faile. He smiled, breathing deeply. His problems had not diminished. In fact, with the Whitecloak ultimatum, they seemed magnified. But all was well with Faile. That simple fact changed so much. With her at his side, he could do anything."

 

“I can try,” Perrin thought, interpreting the sending as best he could. But Hopper was wrong. This place wasn’t his home[Two Rivers]. Perrin’s home was with Faile. He needed to remember that, somehow, to keep himself from getting drawn into the wolf dream too strongly." 

 

"But do not come too strongly, Hopper chided.

Immediately, Perrin forced himself to remember Faile and the place where he slept. His home."

 

There are a few other examples with this continuing on, but you get the idea.  I have to give Brandon huge props for putting together all these pieces for this part of the story. Well done.

 

 

 

@mb:

The only time that I disliked Faile was in The Shadow Rising, when she slapped Perrin after the first bubble of evil. I also did not like that musical chairs number that she did at the stones board with Perrin in LoC. But I just mostly attribute that to a really very weird story line.

 

 

@ any admins or moderators here, how come there is no SPOILER button in the posting toolbar? Most of the forums that I visit have this function. Why not here? This forum seems to be a prime one for it's use. Can we get one added? Please.

Edited by Cosmic Champion

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I might like perrin slightly better if he didn't take 13 books and two authors to develop. Faile is just the flashy thing the author shows us so we won't see the dunce over there.

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what about rand and aviendha during their seanchan visit?

to the best of my knowledge rand lost his virginity to her...and lanfear went berserk..lol.

that I do not count as sex.  Rand was careful to not kiss her or cuddle with her.

Rand loosing his virginity seems to be either of these::

-kissing Elayne in the Stone of Tear

-the mentioned kiss with Min

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I might like perrin slightly better if he didn't take 13 books and two authors to develop. Faile is just the flashy thing the author shows us so we won't see the dunce over there.

.

 

Actually, I believe that's pretty darn close as to why he added her into the story. Over in Theoryland, one of Robert Jordan's quotes has him stating that he finds Perrin kind of boring. And I believe that this is why she was added to Perrin's story line, since like you mentioned, 13 books to resolve his character arc from the reluctant Conan.  She spices his story up a bit, and, it drives some readers nuts.

 

And of course, 13 books is very relative, as he is not in every single chapter of those books.  Some books he has only a few chapters in it.  If you read his whole story line singly from all the other ones(I have done this a couple of times already), it flows along pretty darn well, even the Shaido plot, *GASP!*  which does not have all that many chapters in it anyway;  IMO. Though a few of them could have been edited up quite a bit. No argument there.

Edited by Cosmic Champion

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Probably Nynaeve. I never really got the hate for Egwene, who I found pretty inoffensive until she became the greatest and smartest and most powerful Amyrlin ever over the course of one and a half books, but Nynaeve just never clicked with me as a main character. I never found her particularly sympathetic, her misplaced hatred for Moiraine and Aes Sedai in general ranged from petty to bizarre (you'd all be dead and your village would be ashes if they didn't pluck the cast out of their idyllic little village lives, genius), and her romance with Lan wasn't very compelling. Her annoying tics and unjustified temper and bad attitude didn't do much to endear her to me either. 

 

Slayer too. I found him a pretty underwhelming villain, and Lanfear supplanting him as Perrin's final TAR obstacle was a welcome twist. 

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you really do need to reread the scene between rand and aviendha lol.

went through the chapter just now.  Still do not count that scene as sex.

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@mb,

"still do not count that scene as sex".

you're completely wrong about this and ignoring the facts:

 

1.aviendha told elayne that she slept with rand.lord of chaos ch40.

 

2.after the 4-way bonding elayne told rand that aviendha and min got something from him

that she didn't and both of them went to bed.winter heart ch12.

 

3.the night before the field of merrilor meeting we have a conversation between rand and aviendha,

here's the relevant part:

aviendha:"enough talk.you will bed me now".

rand:"ah,well.at least i don't have to worry about you freezing to death this time".memory of light ch3.

a confirmation straight from the dragon's mouth.

robert jordan didn't write x-rated sex scene but it was a sex scene nonetheless.

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went through the chapter again after reading Encyclopaedia's summary of the chapter.  missed the part where Aviendha pulled Rand's mouth to hers.

though Rand loosing his virginity seems to be in Tear's Stone with Elayne.

 

about the Lord of Chaos discussion, it is difficult to determine which scene/scenes (on screen or off screen) Aviendha was refering to.

and sleeping with someone is not necessarily sex.  Aviendha told Egwene that she slept with men during raids to keep warm; the Aiel seem to be very careful people.

 

the bond seems to be a 3-way bond (not 4-way) since there were 3 bonders.

if I recall correctly, Elayne told Rand both of them; not just Aviendha.

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Rand never got with Elayne in the Tear, Elayne confirms this when she mentions to Rand that Avi and Min have had something she hasn't, forget her exact words.  His first "action" is with Avi.

Edited by Sabio

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