9 - 5 Mafia - Day 3 - GAME OVER! MAFIA WINS!

[Sooh]

I really need to go back and read, and will do that over the next couple of hours, but there are a couple of things I'm curious about.

 

1. I'm still unsure about Tina and her alignment. I really can't read her that well yet. I've been rereading my two games with her, and I see a pretty similar posting pattern there as here. I'm really going to have to rely on other people's meta here unless I can find something really glaring in her posts.

 

2. I don't like that Cory and Clov are not on the same page here, and that means I have to figure out which one to trust more. Good that several have mentioned looking at them more as we go along. As of right now I don't know who I'm more willing to believe, and that's no good for me. 

 

3. I'm inclined so far to think that Darthe is Town this game, because he keeps pointing out things I have been noticing too. 

 

4. Monstr seems town enough for now.

 

5. Zander and seph... honestly I don't know what to believe, but there might be mafia there in one or both. 

 

I really hope morning will come with better answers. 

[Cory Caboose]

I'll figure it all out anyway and leave some probably >> rand reads so that you can ignore them and lose the game after I die

 

Just don't expect me to be polite about it

 

DMers gonna DM

[Cory Caboose]

hot take: monstrman >> rand villager

[Cory Caboose]

hot take: seph's bounced back on zander 3 times now and had me as a villager and now has me as a wolf after i said i thought he was a wolf

 

not a good look

[dicetosser1]

 

 

 

 

Reviewed it. I'll stand by my earlier opinion that Sooh looked legit when voting.

 

Seph/Dice/Clov

 

Seph generally being townread by me but I thought Cory was going to say something about that earlier. Interested in getting a non-clovian opinion. Might be worth taking another peek at.

 

If I am vig I shot Ithi and intend to shoot one of Dice/Clov/Tina tomorrow.

since you're saying you may have shot her...why? Did you think she was mafia and lying?

No I clearly either thought she was town or third party. 3p is a good, safe D1 shot.

no. You consistently called her town. Your either lying now or were lying all day as you should have shot your mafia read. But mafia Darthe with a day kill would have had her shot thinking you could handle any fallout.

 

Driving again.

 

Fascinatingly wrong but not a bad line of reasoning overall.

 

 

Reviewed it.  I'll stand by my earlier opinion that Sooh looked legit when voting.  

 

Seph/Dice/Clov

 

Seph generally being townread by me but I thought Cory was going to say something about that earlier.  Interested in getting a non-clovian opinion.  Might be worth taking another peek at.

 

If I am vig I shot Ithi and intend to shoot one of Dice/Clov/Tina tomorrow.  

 

Soyou arnt reading the game Darthe? Ive given an opinion on seph and so has cory.  We would count as non clovian id say

 

Yours wasn't worth much and Cory's remains unfinished I believe.  Also scummy misrep imo, not your typical Dice play to see the bold.

 

a) mines worth as much as anyones except scum who would KNOW. and cory laid out what he was seeing. waqs talking about seph posting feeling agenda-y. i dont have time but if you ISO cory (and it work properly) you will see it. I remember it cause i responded to it. It wasnt far before EOD

 

and

 

b) i didnt misrep you at all I asked you a question.  If i just said you havent read thegame? then fair enuff. But you see that little question mark thingie??  that makes it a question to you. For you to answer.  For all i know your skimming the game or only reading certain people posts

[seph]

cory its called changing my mind. You are a really really hard person to read. You are one I am pretty sure could convince me of town when you were not. I changed to mafia because you did lead the charge on Ley.

I jumped on it because It sounded very reasonable and it was honestly my best guess at the moment. 

 

Like yates said though it will sort itself out with you shortly. 

[Cory Caboose]

 

I don't know if Darth is mafia. If he was I feel like he would, or should be more inclined to defend himself. He obviously is not just taking it. Just he was already irritated by the 5th page. Ithi is really trying to push everyone for darth

You can almost always find a flaw in anyone's post and make a argument. But I feel like while I want to trust dice,and his vote of confidence with ithi as everyone else. We know regardless that she can help or hurt the town..... that is pretty dangerous, because the point of the game is to win. So how long before she turns on the town.
With no solid evidence on anyone it seems like the logical choice, as it could always be a cover as well.

I feel as if Cory, clov, and turin, and zander are in the town. I would say dice as well but if it turns ithi was mafia after all, he did give his word. His word is why I want to give her the benefit, and the fact she has tried to prod alot of people into giving her responses.

Im so lost on what to do lol. But that is kind of where I am now. Sorry ithi <3

 

 

 

 

About Cory. He said that he wouldn´t start to give reads until later. It feels like it has been a long time since I played with him. I find it strange that he doesn´t get involved more but this is what he has said so far:

 

- He thinks Ithi is contributing to this game and says we should lynch third party at LYLO -1. He thinks Ley is wrong about Ithi but probably town being wrong.

 

- I take his question to Dice as him believing Dice to be town. Why?

 

- Zander is more controlled and rigid. Does that mean scummy?

 

- He doesn´t have me as town.

 

 

I understand if you don´t have me as town yet but if you don´t have it later today I will be worried. You are really good at knowing my alignment. So far I have you as null and hope that you will come up with something good later. 

 

 

 

 

About Ley - I got a townie vibe from his posts first  but... the amount of posts are fewer than in the last game that I played with him and there is something about that unvote. Not sure about him. 

Tina and Sooh, welcome to the party

I don't really have a good read on them, I however am leaning a bit towards town with Sooh

Though because of the comment, is the only thing I was concerned with. I didn't notice until someone pointed it out. I don't really like going on others suspicions, I would like to have my own reasons. I will be watching a bit more closely with the one's who were not able to post yesterday :)

 

(Quote)"I understand if you don´t have me as town yet but if you don´t have it later today I will be worried. You are really good at knowing my alignment. So far I have you as null and hope that you will come up with something good later. "  which others pointed out. 

Ley I am still unsure. As a new player I wasn't able to get your joke at the beginning,  but I do appreciate the ones who got the game moving. I am definitely back to null, slightly town with him with the later comments he made.

 

I am unsure of Dice, BFG( need some more posts!) and yates

With Zander I know mafia is different, and he was apparently lynched 1st last game. He is just not playing like HIS PERSONALITY. I am unsure, but a slight mafia lean.

darthe is the same as before, just waiting until he gets back in =p

 

 

For me zander, I know you said you had to switch your play style, but your play this game is just entirely different from your personality, I started to notice it after a couple of re-reads. maybe it will just take me some time to get used to mafia zanders play style lol. 

I always take other's points into account, but for me that is way I have you slightly towards the other side now.

It isn't anything solid, just going to definitely be watching. hope that cleared up my decision. 

 

 

 

 

As regarding a post a bit back I do believe their was scum on the vote for Ley. Would they put both there votes on him?

 

 

Darthe (4/7) - Turin, Ley, Tina

 

Ley (7/7) - Cory, Sooh, Seph, Dice, Clov, Darthe, Zander

\

I re-read a lot of darthe's posts I am going to move him to null actually I have like quite a few things he has pointed out.

 

votes on ley- mafia suspects in order- Cory, zander

 

 

I re-read a lot of darthe's posts I am going to move him to null actually I have like quite a few things he has pointed out recently.

 

So town involves

sooh (though interested in looking into)

yates 

bfg

manbat

 

 

null

Dice( though I watching)

Turin ( honestly I have no idea)

clov - I had him as more of a townie read but I have as null for now.

Tina-(I don't remember to much I will have to re read)

mafia suspects

zander

cory

 

also manbat I guess I am blind. I don't see What you see that dice can see><

 

Thought for now 

 

 

someone ignore that these posts are long and actually read them and tell me what you think

[Cory Caboose]

cory its called changing my mind. You are a really really hard person to read. You are one I am pretty sure could convince me of town when you were not. I changed to mafia because you did lead the charge on Ley.

I jumped on it because It sounded very reasonable and it was honestly my best guess at the moment. 

 

Like yates said though it will sort itself out with you shortly. 

LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF CORYCURREN:

 

Vote the hell out of Seph tomorrow.

[seph]

 

cory its called changing my mind. You are a really really hard person to read. You are one I am pretty sure could convince me of town when you were not. I changed to mafia because you did lead the charge on Ley.

I jumped on it because It sounded very reasonable and it was honestly my best guess at the moment. 

 

Like yates said though it will sort itself out with you shortly. 

LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF CORYCURREN:

 

Vote the hell out of Seph tomorrow.

 

lol, don't even know what else to say to that

[Cory Caboose]

None of you even have the balls to handle a leadership role yet the first SNAG that gets hit you want the captain's head on a platter.

Guess what? Games aren't won on D1. They are won through persistence, people making competent reads and people contributing and narrowing the PoE. I do not regret lynching Leyrann; he did not act like he does as a villager. If it was real life keeping him away then sorry, that sucks, but I've been watching wolves hide behind RL as an excuse here for years and it's just not something I am going to integrate into my READS LIST.

So throw your tomatoes at the big clown, cause

 

[seph]

maybe I need to stop posting what I am thinking and trying to help the town. and just do they left field approach. Vote random people, just vote on a hunch no reasons needed. OOH vote because we need another wagon. sounds good.

[Clovdyx]

Already caught up, but going back through to things that caught my attention.

 

 

Sorry, just fell asleep.

I'll be back before deadline to vote, but I hate blinds lynches and would rather give him time to claim.

Promise me if Ley checks out that you guys CFD on to either Zander or Turin. PROMISE ME.

 

 

 

Why zander

He's in my POE from the Ithi stuff. I don't have a case ready or anything but I took you, Clov, and Seph out of the pool so all that's left are Zander and Turin.

I'm tinfoiling a bit on Clov right now but he isn't a D1 lynch for me.

 

 

Did you have something on Turin besides he trusted Ithillian's claim right off the bat?

 

 

ive been going back and cathching up/re-reading posts.  to decide between the 2 people im leaning towards the most ley and darthe. and even though i wasn't liking the way darthe was on ilit and turrin ley calling out a vote regardless while having done the same thing in a previous game is the scummier of the two.

 

still have darthe on my list as well but i have a distinct dislike for hypocrisy.

 

also not sure why yates still has me on his list at all. 

 

[v] ley [/v]

 

was supposed to read regradless of alignment.

 

Sorry crazy tired and about to go to bed.

 

 

Even with the correct, this post doesn't make any sense to me.  Trying too hard to justify a hammer vote on somebody that he knew was going to come up town?

 

Zander prob town

Cory town equity will drop if he isn't NK'd.  

 

This: Sooh, Seph, Dice, Clov,  conglomerate is where I want to focus

 

So I take it you dont have a problem with that hammer of Zanders darthe?  Whys that?

 

I think this is a good question from Dice.  I don't have any issue with him hammering the lynch, itself, because it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.  But the way he explained it sounded awful to me.  Not sure why Darthe would think he was probably town for it.

 

 

Zander prob town

Cory town equity will drop if he isn't NK'd.  

 

This: Sooh, Seph, Dice, Clov,  conglomerate is where I want to focus

I just want to reiterate what Dice asked... Why take Zander out of the mix? Because he hammered he has to be town?

 

Also where did Tina go on your focus list?

 

 

Also like this question from Sooh.  Both seem like things I would expect Sooh to pick up on as town.  

 

Tina remains but I think to resolve her I need to hear more from her and maybe resolve Clov first.  I'm keeping things localized based on not liking that we went into EoD without movement and with two town trains.  Makes those four very sus because there essentially has to be mafia in them.  

 

Couldn't care less if Zander hammered, the "hammer=town" logic has always been crap.  But I think his vote was a good one and that a new player wouldn't want to draw that kind of attention right off the bat as mafia + a few other things.

 

So yeah, he is off the list for now.  

 

 

Strongly, strongly, STRONGLY disagree with the bolded statement.  First of all, he's being mentored by an experienced player, so I expect he had a suggestion of how to play it.  Secondly - and more importantly - DM has a culture that hammering is a good thing.  I'll back you 100% that thinking it's inherently pro-town to hammer is garbage, but that doesn't change the site's perception of the act. 

 

In one game, I got shot N1 by the townvig for refusing to hammer one of my townreads because "why didn't he consolidate?!".  Even though I explained why I was townreading him, gave alternative lynches, and there was no penalty for no hammer (it just ended as a no lynch).  Think about how much people have spoken against hybrid hammers.  Probably not as bad as WaFia (Cory gets this reference), but they're still not loved.  

 

If Zander was alone and playing his first game, I might side with you.  But as it is, I think there's a very realistic possibility new players in that same scenario hammer quite a bit.  

 

With all of that being said, I think it's actually pro-town of YOU to make this point.  Could be just whiteknighting somebody to make yourself look good, but I would be surprised if a Zander lynch was met with too much resistance, and I'm not sure Mafia!Darthe would give that up for a little bit of "told ya!" cred.

[Cory Caboose]

lol, don't even know what else to say to that

 

for future reference I am not at all a hard person to read

 

tone is easy to fake but interest is not

[Cory Caboose]

Clov I would argue that if Zander were listening to Tress and he were Mafia he would not have hammered, but IDK what Zander would have done on his own since I don't really know what he's thinking this game

 

Some genius wrote a good bit on DM's hammer culture in the DVC for the Warehouse 13 game:

 

"I think the DM reverse meta for wolves bussing is really funny.

Like wolves will hammer the hell out of their wolfbros for "credit" but they're afraid to hammer a villager cause "scummy hammer" or something.

To the point where you can probably pretty reliably catch wolves on who decisively hammers wolves but precipitately waits on villagers."

[Cory Caboose]

maybe I need to stop posting what I am thinking and trying to help the town. and just do they left field approach. Vote random people, just vote on a hunch no reasons needed. OOH vote because we need another wagon. sounds good.

 

Ah, the NotBob approach

[seph]

tress is my mentor and kaylee is zanders. also not sure what that means

[Clovdyx]

 

 

As regarding a post a bit back I do believe their was scum on the vote for Ley. Would they put both there votes on him?

 

 

Darthe (4/7) - Turin, Ley, Tina

 

Ley (7/7) - Cory, Sooh, Seph, Dice, Clov, Darthe, Zander

\

I re-read a lot of darthe's posts I am going to move him to null actually I have like quite a few things he has pointed out.

 

votes on ley- mafia suspects in order- Cory, zander

 

 

I re-read a lot of darthe's posts I am going to move him to null actually I have like quite a few things he has pointed out recently.

 

So town involves

sooh (though interested in looking into)

yates 

bfg

manbat

 

 

null

Dice( though I watching)

Turin ( honestly I have no idea)

clov - I had him as more of a townie read but I have as null for now.

Tina-(I don't remember to much I will have to re read)

mafia suspects

zander

cory

 

also manbat I guess I am blind. I don't see What you see that dice can see><

 

Thought for now 

 

 

If Cory is a strong mafia candidate, why did you follow him on a lynch?  Typically you should NOT be voting who likely mafia are actively trying to push.

 

Oh also the reason I think darthe/cory could be a w/w pairing is because ldo cory was leading tina lynch over darthe

I realize this is level one and should not be pursued too hard but I guess i just wanted to say it

 

This is completely untrue.  Cory said he wasn't townreading her early Sunday morning, and then had her as a tentative townlean by the afternoon.  Combine this with your multiple nudes on Cory for not having you as town, and I think you are looking for stupid reasons to NOT have Cory town.  Wonder why that is.

 

 

 

 

That was sarcasm.  I'm implying it's because I think you have a pretty good shot at being mafia

 

 

 

[Sooh]

 

 

I don't know if Darth is mafia. If he was I feel like he would, or should be more inclined to defend himself. He obviously is not just taking it. Just he was already irritated by the 5th page. Ithi is really trying to push everyone for darth

 

You can almost always find a flaw in anyone's post and make a argument. But I feel like while I want to trust dice,and his vote of confidence with ithi as everyone else. We know regardless that she can help or hurt the town..... that is pretty dangerous, because the point of the game is to win. So how long before she turns on the town.

With no solid evidence on anyone it seems like the logical choice, as it could always be a cover as well.

 

I feel as if Cory, clov, and turin, and zander are in the town. I would say dice as well but if it turns ithi was mafia after all, he did give his word. His word is why I want to give her the benefit, and the fact she has tried to prod alot of people into giving her responses.

 

Im so lost on what to do lol. But that is kind of where I am now. Sorry ithi <3

 

 

 

 

About Cory. He said that he wouldn´t start to give reads until later. It feels like it has been a long time since I played with him. I find it strange that he doesn´t get involved more but this is what he has said so far:

 

- He thinks Ithi is contributing to this game and says we should lynch third party at LYLO -1. He thinks Ley is wrong about Ithi but probably town being wrong.

 

- I take his question to Dice as him believing Dice to be town. Why?

 

- Zander is more controlled and rigid. Does that mean scummy?

 

- He doesn´t have me as town.

 

 

I understand if you don´t have me as town yet but if you don´t have it later today I will be worried. You are really good at knowing my alignment. So far I have you as null and hope that you will come up with something good later. 

 

 

 

 

About Ley - I got a townie vibe from his posts first  but... the amount of posts are fewer than in the last game that I played with him and there is something about that unvote. Not sure about him. 

Tina and Sooh, welcome to the party

I don't really have a good read on them, I however am leaning a bit towards town with Sooh

Though because of the comment, is the only thing I was concerned with. I didn't notice until someone pointed it out. I don't really like going on others suspicions, I would like to have my own reasons. I will be watching a bit more closely with the one's who were not able to post yesterday :)

 

(Quote)"I understand if you don´t have me as town yet but if you don´t have it later today I will be worried. You are really good at knowing my alignment. So far I have you as null and hope that you will come up with something good later. "  which others pointed out. 

Ley I am still unsure. As a new player I wasn't able to get your joke at the beginning,  but I do appreciate the ones who got the game moving. I am definitely back to null, slightly town with him with the later comments he made.

 

I am unsure of Dice, BFG( need some more posts!) and yates

With Zander I know mafia is different, and he was apparently lynched 1st last game. He is just not playing like HIS PERSONALITY. I am unsure, but a slight mafia lean.

darthe is the same as before, just waiting until he gets back in =p

 

 

For me zander, I know you said you had to switch your play style, but your play this game is just entirely different from your personality, I started to notice it after a couple of re-reads. maybe it will just take me some time to get used to mafia zanders play style lol. 

I always take other's points into account, but for me that is way I have you slightly towards the other side now.

It isn't anything solid, just going to definitely be watching. hope that cleared up my decision. 

 

 

 

 

As regarding a post a bit back I do believe their was scum on the vote for Ley. Would they put both there votes on him?

 

 

Darthe (4/7) - Turin, Ley, Tina

 

Ley (7/7) - Cory, Sooh, Seph, Dice, Clov, Darthe, Zander

\

I re-read a lot of darthe's posts I am going to move him to null actually I have like quite a few things he has pointed out.

 

votes on ley- mafia suspects in order- Cory, zander

 

 

I re-read a lot of darthe's posts I am going to move him to null actually I have like quite a few things he has pointed out recently.

 

So town involves

sooh (though interested in looking into)

yates 

bfg

manbat

 

 

null

Dice( though I watching)

Turin ( honestly I have no idea)

clov - I had him as more of a townie read but I have as null for now.

Tina-(I don't remember to much I will have to re read)

mafia suspects

zander

cory

 

also manbat I guess I am blind. I don't see What you see that dice can see><

 

Thought for now 

 

 

someone ignore that these posts are long and actually read them and tell me what you think

 

I have read, and to me it all comes down to how much lenience you want to give a new player. I can see his confusion as that of a new player trying to go with what he knows of people from other places on the board, not unlike what I did in my first game. That makes it likely that he would have people like myself, Dice and Zander as town from the get-go and be inclined to trust us because he knows us. 

 

However, like you said. He does have a mentor, and we are not privy to their conversation. 

 

To me it's all *shrug* at the moment. I'm not overly happy with some of the last responses he has made, but he might be feeling the pressure. I could still real easily go either way with him.

 

*sigh*

 

I try too much to see the good in people...

[Clovdyx]

cory its called changing my mind. You are a really really hard person to read. You are one I am pretty sure could convince me of town when you were not. I changed to mafia because you did lead the charge on Ley.

I jumped on it because It sounded very reasonable and it was honestly my best guess at the moment. 

 

Like yates said though it will sort itself out with you shortly. 

 

Pass.

[Niniel]

I think seph made a slip. He said "both" as in two mafia and Manbat followed him. Seph will be my vote tomorrow.

 

If we have two mafia then we could have two mafia teams or sympathy or... That will make it harder.

[Clovdyx]

Maybe I'm just jaded then after the Pral thing, Cory.  Because I definitely think people here are willing to hammer just because it's expected.  

[Cory Caboose]

Dk how Kay would respond in that situation

 

FWIW she was running the game or I was laughing about the meta and was in that DVC

 

I'm not really sure that means anything though

[Sooh]

I think seph made a slip. He said "both" as in two mafia and Manbat followed him. Seph will be my vote tomorrow.

 

If we have two mafia then we could have two mafia teams or sympathy or... That will make it harder.

Wasn't that Zander?

 

If so that might be because he was just in a game with two mafia.. open setup...

 

*goes to look*

[Cory Caboose]

Maybe I'm just jaded then after the Pral thing, Cory.  Because I definitely think people here are willing to hammer just because it's expected.

 

I think being jaded about that game is understandable

 

I avenged you though

 

I avenged everyone

[Cory Caboose]

Who said that it's weird that me and Clov are not on the same page

 

Remember reading that and feeling weird about it

 

Mostly because we are pretty famous for not being on the same page

 

And also because I don't feel like we really disagreed all that much this game anyway, at least not more than usual