Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Sabio

If you could make 1 change

Recommended Posts

I also think that Black Tower was handled poorly. I understand that BS wanted his Androl to shine a bit before the end, but Rand that traveled around the world trying to fix every small wrongness he had done and left his most important creation alone with it's own demons... well that's a bit strange...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About the Black Tower, to me Rand did not "leave them to their fate"; he sent a messenger to them.

 

About which for Rand to bring back; there seems to be no prophecies in the books about Bela.  There were several prophecies about Lan.

And from what I skimmed, it seems that Rand saw just the people deaths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rand avoided the BT since he assumed it was a trap set by Taim so he simply avoided it.  Especially when he heard traveling wouldn't work there, but it also comes down to simply not enough time and he had more important things to do. Peace with senchean, avoiding forsaken traps, finsing the forsaken, getting the nations ready etc..

Edited by Sabio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(Spoilers for the last two books follow.)

 

 

I would ask for one of three changes:

 

(1)  I would want greater reassurance that the future of Randland does not go the way of Aviendha's vision -- her vision of a world in which the Seanchan defeat the White Tower, send the Black Tower into hiding, essentially take over the world, and crush the Aiel.  Or at least that it does not have to go that way.  

 

I would like to know that there is at least a decent chance that everything that Rand, Egwene, and so many others have worked to build does not eventually get either destroyed or assimilated into the Seanchan empire.  Perhaps that chance is already there, but I got a real sense of inevitability from Aviendha's vision, which was reinforced by certain other events (such as the loss of Egwene's leadership for the White Tower).  I don't want a "happily ever after" ending, but I just want an ending that is somewhat less bleak than Aviendha's vision.

 

or 

 

(2)  I would want to change the ending so that Rand kills the Dark One, breaks the Wheel from its circular motion, and sets a new course of history which is linear rather than circular.  Or at least provide a better rationalization for why he does not kill the Dark One.  The reason given just didn't work for me.

 

or 

 

(3) Re-write the last battle to fix various problems, such as the fact that everyone talks about how great a general Mat is, but we see very little evidence of this in the tactics that he uses, or in the results that he obtains.

I agree, we hear all throughout the books from Moiraine and Rand about wards that could kill shadowspawn, add in the red razor wire filaments set in the air to slice a man apart, and many other nasty things and you could have had the channelers set nasty surprises around the Field of Merrilor, but we saw nothing.  Not to mention we sort of missed seeing blossoms of fire and the red flickering laser-like filaments bursting from the ends of Rand's fingers that allow a handful of channelers at Algarin's manor kill a hundred thousand trollocs, yet we see frail Aes Sedai with weak abilities and it just seemed that Brandon and RJ downplayed the channelers to make them the equal of regular soldiers and kept them under the thumb of the shadow's forces, always beaten back despite the tower forces being far larger than the Sharan channelers.  The Greens did not reveal any awesome weaves or abilities or even a victory of any kind that I can recall.  There were just so many missed opportunities.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of those its possible only Rand knew, I think the ones he was putting on the watgates was from LTT memories) .  Others might not be good in a large battle where positions might change frequently.  Having your armies remember where all these lethal wards are might be impossible.  Not sure what wards Moiraine knew that would actually kill shadowspawn besides detection or hiding from them.  I think the big issue is to make them powerful enough (think It was leaving the waste Rand thought this) was the more powerful the easier it is to detect.  For wards attuned to just shadowspawn, with that many shadowspawn any channeler would be able to detect them and try to remove them.  I just don't think BS had the time to go into detail with a lot of the weaves being used in the battle.  The shadow forces seemed content with balefire but my theory is by getting into weaves being used BS probably felt it would drag the book out even longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

about the glass column visions, difference in details would be enough for me.  If details of a prediction are different, the whole prediction would be different.

 

about killing the Dark One; the Dark One becoming dead/destroyed I take would cause the Pattern to become destroyed (since the Pattern seems to need both Creator and Dark One to exist).  And the Pattern becoming destroyed I take would cause existence (of all people/animals/creatures/things/etc) to become dead/destroyed (since those seem to need the Pattern to exist).

Not sure if any person/animal/creature could change the nature of time with any action.  I would guess that only the Creator could change the nature of time; and maybe also the Dark One when free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to change how verin died. I would rather her be at Tarmon Gadon battling against graendal and helping Rand at Shayol Ghul. To me she was what an ase sedai should be. Aloof yet endearing. Kind but firm, smart and mysterious.Almost a second mother figure behind Cadsuane and to a lesser extent Morraine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know what you mean about Verin being a proper Aes Sedai - wise, willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good etc.  Especially compared to many of them who seemed obsesses with WT politics almost right up to the LB. 

 

Egwene's death is the most interesting one for me.  I've seen BS has said that her story arc meant she had to die and I would love to know exactly what he meant by that. Did he mean she had to die because Gawyn had just died, and their love was so strong there was no way for her to get through the LB realistically? OR was she fated to die from earlier, maybe from when Gawyn put on the Bloodknife rings? Or maybe when she chose Gawyn over Galad? Or was she fated to die because her name is like Guinevere and Guinevere always dies in all Arthurian legends? That one makes least sense to me as the Arthurian allusions are so loose - I can't find anything on Guinevere loving Gawain - it's always Arthur and Lancelot.  I know Min has a viewing of Eg and gawyn having two paths, one leading to a long happy life, the other to death. I am just not sure exactly what decision is meant to have put them on the second path. So to sum up, I don't feel as if she did HAVE to die, and her survival would have meant it would be easier to be optimistic about the White Tower in the 4th Age. I also really like Gawyn, which my brief perusals of the WoT fandom sshows me to be a VERY unpopular opinion.

 

It's definitely the part of the ending that bothers me the most. As a poster said above (sorry for forgetting your name) her death means that WT is the part of Randland we are most unsure over, apart from arguably Seanchan (I don't care about Shara). Assuming Cadsuane becomes Amyrlin, will she honour Egwene's changes - to the novice book, retirement into the Kin, exchange programmes with Wise Ones and Sea Folk? I like to think she will, but it's definitely hard to convince myself.  So if I could make one MAJOR change to the book I would let Egwene survive.  Having said that, she is IMO by far the biggest and most emotional death in the whole series so altering that may be too drastic.  So for a smaller change, I wouldn't have had Cadsuane spot rand in the AMol epilogue.  I take a very optimistic view of the 4th age - rand lives a long and happy life, splitting his time between Min, Avi and El, he visits his father and reveals his survival, he visits Nyn and Lan, Mat and perrin too and generally it's happy ever after. That's how I decided to think of the 4th Age.  the major issue for me on this though is the Cadsuane point. She sees him and decides thats a useful bit of knowledge. If Randland falls apart in five years time, will she force him out of retirement, like some crappy cop movie?  So if I could change one small thing, I wouldn't have had her see him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oooh, one other thing. I wouldn't have had Arangar/Halima be quite so damn useless. Giving the young Amyrlin headaches so she can't Dream properly, ooh aren't you evil. I mean come on, I've seen some people are unhappy about Demandred' grand plan not being grand enough, but seriously he's like Alexander the Great compared to Arangar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Luke, the one problem is Verin being BA and taking the oaths wouldn't of been able to fight on the side of the light against the DO I believe.  "I swear I will not betray the Great Lord, to keep my secrets until the hour of my death."  she can double cross DF's and turn against the Choosen if she can justify it.  But she can't betray the DO.  So siding with Rand in the last battle would of been a no-no.  I found her death fitting since she basically got a sort of redemption.  Instead of simply dying in the last battle she was able to deal a major blow against the shadow in her own way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one change I would make? I'd rewrite every female character so that every single one wasn't an insanely shrewish man hating harpy. I remember the first time I read the passage where Nynaeve was astounded to find the riverboat captain who sincerely didn't like women. My immediate thought was "Why does any man on this world like any woman?" given the way that every woman regards every single man - even the ones she supposedly loves - as a contemptible incompetent retard incapable of the smallest thing without direct and minute female supervision.

Edited by Randlander123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me that very few characters of this series hate the opposite gender.  most characters to me seem to respect the opposite gender.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have done more with Alanna. She was this profound, important link to Rand, but ended up being functionally irrelevant, except for people to whine about/at. I would have had her kidnapped by a member of the forsaken, Graendal or Semirhage, and manipulated. Turn her into a darkfriend. Show us that process earlier in the books, and against someone who MATTERS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me that very few characters of this series hate the opposite gender.  most characters to me seem to respect the opposite gender.

 Really? Serious question - are you joking? No, none of the men hate women with the exception of the mentioned riverboat captain and all the men respect (or fear) all the  women whether channeler or no. Of course, this only applies to men on the side of the light - all male darkfriends seem to hate and wish to harm women - that's one easy way to identify darkfriends. But there is not a woman, light or dark,  in the books that has more than a shred of respect for any man and not one who has even that shred for men in general. Name me one passage in 14 books that any women thinking about or talking to a man does not precede or follow that without fool man, idiot man, stupid man or some other denigrating comment? The men may think - gee, women sure are strange and mysterious and I'll just never understand them but they are almost never insulting and contemptuous the way the women are even to the men they supposedly love. Think about it - virtually every time one of the main character women think about the man they love, it's almost always along the lines of how dare he this and how dare he that and how dare he make me love him and it's all his fault, stupid man!  With only a very few exceptions, every female character is arrogant, hypocritical, rather stupid in their narrow provincial shortsightedness and just .... petty. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Randlander123

Ok, that's overreacting a lot. Despite the R.J's dinamic of "men confused about women vs womens criticizing the men", this is more a general attitude than a general female opinion about men. Also, i don't see the female characters like arrogants, hypocritical or stupid. It seems to me that you're very angry with womens for some reason :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am with Randlander here. Most of the woman were badly written. Nynaeve on the first few books, especially.

On the other side, Moiraine was my favorite character there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Randlander123

Ok, that's overreacting a lot. Despite the R.J's dinamic of "men confused about women vs womens criticizing the men", this is more a general attitude than a general female opinion about men. Also, i don't see the female characters like arrogants, hypocritical or stupid. It seems to me that you're very angry with womens for some reason :/

Just angry with  the womens (har) of the story:) If you don't consider them arrogant and hypocritical - what do you consider arrogant and hypocritical? Truly, I do understand the basis of the arrogance and sexism considering the 3000 years of the taint and the brush tarring even men who can't channel and women being the sole safe users of magic for the same time, giving them the ultimate hold on power and that spilling over even to non channeling women. I do get it. It's just the sheer unrelenting repetitiveness on every single womens POV in this regard gets very old. It would have been nice if even one or two of the main female characters (the only POV's we consistently get to see) had grown and changed a bit. Nynaeve does a little bit but none of the others do in regard to their arrogance or sexism. My charge of shortsighted provincial stupidity actually applies to everybody, man or woman, despite nearly all the major characters saying that only fools expect strangers to not follow their own customs. Everyone is idiotic in that regard. 

But let me add fuel to the fire. The wonder girls are extreme ingrates also. Look at how many times they are saved by the guys and how long does their gratitude last? Usually about five seconds and they are right back to regarding the guys as irresponsible retarded boys. And their POV's always make it plain that they are absolutely furious that they feel they should be grateful and would almost rather have died or whatever rather than be beholden to a man.

Edited by Randlander123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't have portrayed Elaida as a monster in the final books. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I found her a pretty fascinating, and even layered, character before The Gathering Storm. Sure, she needed to be kicked out of the Tower, and certainly got what was coming to her in a karmic sense, but I didn't feel she was entirely beyond redemption until the dinner scene painted her as completely off her nut. The way she was removed from the storyline felt a bit cheap to me as well; it was an incidental and too-convenient way for her to avoid the consequences of her war with the rebels, and just plucked her out of the plot like the inconvenience she was. Either way, I was seriously hoping for some damane Elaida chapters in ToM, but alas not: she's in one scene and ends it selling out secrets to the Seanchan and offering to let 20 (?) other women be collared in her place. Eh. She didn't need to be this unsympathetic, RJ got the point across in a better way IMO.

 

Also, yeah, I think Logain should have been more prominent. He made a great first impression and was still a very cool character, but I came away feeling like he should've been more important overall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assumed part of her  madness (irrational behavior) was from her being around Fain.  I have to agree I didn't really like her offering other AesSedai if they let her go .For me her being taken was a way for Egwene to quickly takeover and  unite the tower without a trial and Ae Sedai still loyal to her trying to free her and such. It seemed like the convenient way to just unite the tower quickly.

Edited by Sabio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are sub-sections of the girls storylines that are completely useless once the book is finished. What's the point of the Black Ajah Hunters storyline? To show how the Black Ajah worked and that there were some people inside the White Tower who were willing to cooperate when the distrust was at its highest. Egwene finds them ... and then they play no part in her storyline after that. The breaking of the Tower is solved due to the Seanchan attack. The Black Ajah is hunted due to Verin telling her how to do it. And later the Black Ajah is defeated when they attack Mesaana in the world of dreams and in various battles in book 14.

 

The Shaido/Masema storyline took so long to solve (end of book 7 - end of book 11) that it, in the end, became useless. It was neat to know what happened to the Shaido, but Perrin's character development had to be done later by Sanderson in book 13 (finally solving the fear of becoming a wolf, getting skills at Tel'aran rhiod, accepting becoming a ruler), not to mention plot advancements (from book 7 to book 11, Perrin's army doesn't actually grow. The growth comes in book 13, when the matter of the Whitecloacks is solved and a new alliance is made).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only way I can think of the BA hunting storyline had any purpose was a way to get them out of the tower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...