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[BlueCon] - Super Hero Discussion


Red2111
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In this thread we;ll be discussing Super Heroes and Super Powers.  Each day i'll post a new topic of discussion in this post for use to discuss :)

 

 

Day 1 -

If you could choose 1 super power, what would you choose and why?  How would you use your super power?  Would you be a good guy, a villain or a merc?

 

 

Day 2 -

In the debate between DC versus Marvel, which universe is better in your opinion.  Also, who is your favorite: X-men, Avenger, Justice Leauger, favorite DC & Marvel hero/villain?

 

 

Day 3 -  

do you think the willingness to kill, to do what ever needs to be done to get the job done, is what makes a villain; or do you think that in certain scenarios, its okay for the good guy to use the last resort of killing.

 

take the recent Superman movie, where Superman kills in the end.  for a hero that basis his entire code around "i'll not kill" seeing him snap the neck in an un-avoidable situation was jarring to many fans.  Do you think this makes him less "Superman" and just a Vig with a moral compass.

 

Adding onto that, reading the "Mutant Registration" comics, a shield agent asked Captian America this question:

 

"Spiderman locks up Doc Oc 100 times a week, only to have Doc bust out again and go out and kill hundreds of people.  At what point is the blood of those innocents on Spidermans hands because he doesn't do what needs to be doing?"  (by "needs to be doing" the shield agent is implying killing Doc Oc)

 

this is a great philosophical question, especially in a realm with such super hero's and super villains.   at what point does the refusal of the heros to kill the villains put the blood of the innocent on the heros hands?

 

 

Day 4 -

 

Brandon Sanderson has written a series called "The Reckoners" which deals with every day people developing super powers (some people but not all people).  Steelheart came out last year, and last month Firefight came out.

 

what is your opinion on the world that Sanderson has created?  How the societies in that world have evolved (or devolved)?  How Sanderson treats the powers of the Epics (some having one one power, while others have layers of powers)? 

 

Adding onto this, if Mutants and Aliens and Gods and Super Intelligent people started coming about, like what we see in the DC and Marvel universes, how do you think it would effect our society?  Would they be our overlords, like in Sandersons series? would we fear and respect and cheer for them as vigilantes like in Gotham? would we hold them up as the symbol of our society and rever/worship them like in Metropolis?  Use them as the worlds police like in Avengers?  Or the route that Xmen takes, where we try to "cure" them and eventually Register them and imprison them?

 

How do you think the citizens and governments would try to keep a balance of power? Extermination, Legislation or Immunity?

 

 

Day 5 -

 

in Disney's "The Incredibles" super hero's were eventually shunned from society because society got fed up with cleaning up their messes.  The movie Hancock also showed how a populace can grow to hate a super hero that causes unnecessary damage to property.

 

At what point, or how long after the imergence of a super hero, do you think it would be before the good will and tolerance of the people run out?

Edited by Red2111
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They say you can tell a lot about a person by the power they would choose.

 

If i could only have one super power i think i'd chose either Invisibility or Telekinesis.

 

 

Telekinesis because it would be awesome to be able to do my work without having to lift a finger ...  and Invisibility because ...  well i could go anywhere and do pretty much anything i wanted :laugh:

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i would want the ríastrad/contortion like the one cú chulainn does, that would be badarse. basically berserk/invincibility/super strength and magic. heres a translated part of an old irish epic that describes what it is:

 

 

 

       At last in his full attire, the contortion then seized Cúchulainn, and it turned him into a horrid, monstrous, deformed, awesome thing. Every one of his joints and every portion of his flesh trembled furiously, like a bulrush in a stream, and then his innards made a furious twisting within his hide, such that his feet and his shins and his knees slid to face his back, and his heels and his calves and his hams were then placed at his front. The sinews of his temples expanded and stretched so greatly that they reached the nape of his neck, and they were huge, hill-like ridges, large as men’s arms and pulsing red with hot blood.

       His face became a bloody red glen – one eye he sucked so far into his head that not even a crane would succeed in drawing it out of his skull, and the other one expanded out so much that it fell from its socket and lay on his cheek, and either socket bled furiously. His mouth became that of a monster, his cheeks drawing away from his jaw bones so that all the interior of his mouth and the beginnings of his throat could be seen. A frothy blood poured forth from his gullet, and he gnashed his teeth so hard, his upper jaw hammering its lower mate, that flaming sparks rained forth with every strike. His hair on his head rose up then, each strand as straight and as sharp as a pin, and it was like the cruel branches of a redthorn in a great hedge, and so keen were those hairs that if an apple tree heavy with fruit had been shaken over his head, there would not have been an apple to reach the ground, but all of them would have been skewered on one of his hairs, and from the heat of his fury, each one burned a lurid flame at its tip.

       The beating of his heart against his breast was so loud that each pulse was like the sound of thunder clapping in the distance, terrifying in its constancy, and those who stood nigh to him felt the beat of his godly heart trembling in their bones.

       Finally, the Lon Laith, the Hero’s Light, came forth from his forehead, which burst asunder with such force that the spout of dark blood which spurted from his head was as thick and as strong and as straight as the sail-tree of a boat, and as it rose up into the airs, it smoked as densely as the smoke from a king’s hall in the heart of winter, and the sky was choked in the black fog of sorcery. And from his third eye, there was ever emitted a cloud of poison, and the eerie fire of the Badb, and sparks that flashed and blazed in mists about his head, mingling with the hero’s halo in his wild rage.

       When this contortion had completed its course, Cúchulainn leapt up into the powerful sickle chariot, with its countless bristles of iron blades and hooks and disembowelling spikes and merciless prongs, its straps and cords all studded with spikes, his eight swords and eight spears and eight darts and eight shields strapped over him, the Hero’s light encircling his head. So it was that as the sun set, Cúchulainn said unto Laeg, his voice like unto the roar of the earth, “Drive thee now this terrible, death-dealing, blood-letting, bone-crushing chariot into the camp of the men of Éire, Laeg, and we shalt deal them such horrors that the Boy-troop shalt be avenged a thousandfold!”

       So they drove into the camp of the men of Éire, and there was a great terror for the ill spirits already filling the air and the black mist in the sky but also for the thundering of the heart of the hero and his horrific, contorted form and the grinding of his vehicle’s great, sickled wheels and the whirling of the blades, and with his thunder feat, he slew one hundred as he drove amongst them, then two hundred, then three hundred, then four hundred, then five hundred, where he at last drove out the other side of the camp, and he thought it a very good amount to slay for his first pass amongst them.

       He then had the sickle chariot, all red and glistening with blood, turned about, and he drove the vehicle in a wide circle about the entire camp, heavy and furious. Spears and stones and magics were cast at him, but almost all of them missed for the speed of that deadly chariot, whilst the few that struck could not penetrate the god’s armour or his new flesh. So heavy was the chariot driven that its wheels sunk into the earth, and with their turning, the earth was torn apart, and great clods and boulders and stones were cast up behind the chariot, and by magic, he helped form them as he went, such that the gravel and stone and chunks of soil fell in place behind the chariot as a great dike, as high as a fortress wall. This wall he entirely surrounded the men of the four great provinces of Éire in so that they could not escape him as he slaughtered them in revenge for the Boy-troop.

       So Cúchulainn in the sickle chariot drove back into the ranks of the men of Éire, and wherever he past, limbs and heads and bodies were torn apart by the blades and spikes of his chariot, and he dealt death to those out of reach in passing with a sweep of one of his many swords or a thrust of one of his many spears or a cast of one of his many darts or a cleaving with the rim of his shield or a dart of magic that opened the earth into chasms and swallowed men or rained fire and lightning from the black sky. The field within the wall became broken and treacherous, lightning flashed constantly and ripped away life where the bolts struck, fires roared all across the earth, fuelled by the bodies of men and horses and dogs, and walls were raised built of the corpses of his enemies, and streams of blood were created in the deep crevices the wheels of his chariot made.

       Three great circles Cúchulainn drove throughout the camp, and Men fell, sole to sole, headless neck to headless neck, such was the density of the carnage, and in three concentric circles he made high walls of bodies six men deep. At last, Cúchulainn left that place of death and ruin, breaking a space in the wall for his chariot to pass away through, for he considered the Boy-troop avenged.

       This massacre became known as the Seisrech Bresligi, the Sixfold Slaughter, and it is one of the three uncountable slaughters of the Táin, the other two being Imslige Glennamnach, the mutual slaughter of Glenn Domain, and the mighty affrays of Gáirech and Irgairech. They are uncountable because the number of slain cannot be known, and cannot be counted, for so great is the number dead and a great number of bodies are dismembered and mangled that it would be impossible to match legs with severed legs and arms with smashed torsoes and heads with dismembered bodies. Only the great chieftains have been accounted for, and they are listed as follows: ....

 

       In that Slaughter on the Murtheimne Plain, it was that Cúchulainn slew a thirty-six and one-hundred kings. And in uncounted droves, numberless as the red leaves, he slew dogs and horses, boys and children and women and slaves. There was not a man in three who did not leave the blood-churned mud of that plain without an eye, a skull, a thigh bone, a strong arm shattered or mangled. And thus when that battle closed, Cúchulainn Son of Lug left without blemish nor hurt upon himself, his charioteer, or his steeds.

 

 

Edited by WildTaltos
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I would choose teleportation, without a doubt, being able to go anywhere I want and maybe take people with me, to hide where ever I want at any time. Sit up in a tree in the remote areas of China and back home in time to get the fish out of the oven.

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I'm so Un-Red these days ... ugh ... I'd pick Healing! I guess because I fell ill myself and was forced to go to government hospitals. I couldn't NOT try to ease the suffering I saw there (and experienced myself), if I had the Power to do so.

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The bad thing about invisibility is that you could walk in on a conversation and hear something you may not want to hear.

 

Teleportation would be cool.  Instantaneous travel to anywhere you wanted to go. Although this could be easily abused by bad guys and gals (and probably would be) . . .

 

Healing would be awesome. 

 

Or how about the unconscious superpower that would instantaneously transport anyone and everyone who was about to intentionally hurt/maim/kill an innocent to a deserted island where they could all work on killing each other off instead.  Yeah, if there was a superpower like that, that's the one I'd want.  I'd probably be pretty tired from that superpower being tapped in to so often but it would be worth it.

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a lot of great answers :)  teleportation would be awesome *nods* its on my top 5 for sure. Though most of you answered this already,  How would you use your super power?  Would you be a good guy, a villain or a merc?

 

 

and for Day 2 - In the debate between DC versus Marvel, which universe is better in your opinion.  Also, who is your favorite: X-men, Avenger, Justice Leauger, favorite DC & Marvel hero/villain?

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to quote my favorite superhero "i'd be the hero the need, not the one they want."   so essentially i'd be a merc, in the sense that i would dictate who the bad guys were and would issue justice blindly via espionage and info trafficking.   my moral code would be my own self sense of karma and the US constitution.

 

 

 

as for question 2.

 

DC has the better villains imo, so even though Marvel has a better spread i would have to go with DC being the better universe.  more of the characters are grounded in reality in this universe where as Marvel tends to be grounded in the unreal (mutant powers, ect).

 

X-Men - Gambit.  hands down the Ragin Cajun is my and has always been my fav x-men :wub:

 

Avengers - Tony Stark.  from his attitude, to his toys to his charisma and smarts.

 

Justice League - Batman, hands down.  i'm a sucker for an anti-hero

 

 

Fav Marvel Good Guy & Villain -  Goodguy would be Deadpool, bad guy would be Venom.  Deadpool is just awesome, and i've always been attracted to Venom's concept and costume design as a kid.  i recall going through my best friends card collection and being drawn to the character not even knowing who he was.

 

Fav DC Good Guy & Villain - Batman and Joker (though Lex Luther is a close runner up).  Batman because he's an anti-hero.  Joker because he's an epic villain, he's so complex and insane.  one of my goals, as a hobby writer, is to eventually write a character that comes close to being Joker-esque.  to me, he's what every villain strives to be and he sets the bar for supreme badassery.

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Even through passion, an act to hurt someone is intentional.  It's a choice, regardless of how angry one is, to lay hands on someone or pick up a weapon and harm someone.  Lose your temper and in a fit of rage, put your hands around someone's neck and start strangling them?  BOOM!  Instantaneous transport to deserted island.  Gang-banging and shooting into a home occupied by kids to try to get a rival or even scare someone?  BOOM! Instantaneous transport to deserted island.  Boko Haram blazing into a village to kidnap/kill/pillage?  BOOM! Instantaneous transport to deserted island sans weapons.

 

Unfortunately, we'd quickly run out of deserted islands . . .

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a lot of great answers :)  teleportation would be awesome *nods* its on my top 5 for sure. Though most of you answered this already,  How would you use your super power?  Would you be a good guy, a villain or a merc?

i would use mine to cleanse the world according to my ideals - whether thats good or bad is a matter of perspective.

 

 

Even through passion, an act to hurt someone is intentional.  It's a choice, regardless of how angry one is, to lay hands on someone or pick up a weapon and harm someone.  Lose your temper and in a fit of rage, put your hands around someone's neck and start strangling them?  BOOM!  Instantaneous transport to deserted island.  Gang-banging and shooting into a home occupied by kids to try to get a rival or even scare someone?  BOOM! Instantaneous transport to deserted island.  Boko Haram blazing into a village to kidnap/kill/pillage?  BOOM! Instantaneous transport to deserted island sans weapons.

 

Unfortunately, we'd quickly run out of deserted islands . . .

 

if we are defining choice as a conscious decision, it is not - emotions and especiallly rage can be extremly powerful and combine that with a predisposition for impulse problems then when something happens, there is scarcely if any conscious choice, its automation based on instinct plus any subconscious process/motifs, anyone who has experienced it knows that. the only example you cited  that could have been act of passion woulld be the strangulation - everything else is clearly intentional because you dont reactionarily go over to someones house and start shooting at it to scare someone you dont like and most of the time people who go raiding planned that out before hand whether or not it was originally inspired by emotion.

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Being a do-gooder seems like a lot of stress. I hope I could help sometimes, but I doubt I would be a wonderful super hero. Maybe if I can just keep some people safe, the world will be a better place. (I don't work well under pressure.)

 

I love Marvel like crazy. DC is okaaaay, but Marvel has the most fascinating characters, and they have Loki and Deadpool, so...yeah.

 

As a kid, Storm was my favorite x-man, and she still is honestly, but Nightcrawler is awesome, too. Mistique isn't an x-man unfortunately. OnO

 

My favorite Avenger is Hawkeye! I don't know why. He's just neat I guess.

 

Funny-Pictures-Awesome-Hawkeye.jpg

 

 

As a kid, I watched Justice League a lot, the cartoon, and Wonder Woman is the best. =D Yay, amazons!

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thats the thing though, isn't it.  bad and good; or at least the concepts of it, all boil down to perspective.

 

this brings me to the discussion for Day 3.

 

 do you think the willingness to kill, to do what ever needs to be done to get the job done, is what makes a villain; or do you think that in certain scenarios, its okay for the good guy to use the last resort of killing.

 

take the recent Superman movie, where Superman kills in the end.  for a hero that basis his entire code around "i'll not kill" seeing him snap the neck in an un-avoidable situation was jarring to many fans.  Do you think this makes him less "Superman" and just a Vig with a moral compass.

 

Adding onto that, reading the "Mutant Registration" comics, a shield agent asked Captian America this question:

 

"Spiderman locks up Doc Oc 100 times a week, only to have Doc bust out again and go out and kill hundreds of people.  At what point is the blood of those innocents on Spidermans hands because he doesn't do what needs to be doing?"  (by "needs to be doing" the shield agent is implying killing Doc Oc)

 

this is a great philosophical question, especially in a realm with such super hero's and super villains.   at what point does the refusal of the heros to kill the villains put the blood of the innocent on the heros hands?

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Walking all over the gray area right now.

 

I don't know what the "point" is, if there is an exact number of people needing to be killed before the hero is blamed. Super Heroes are all about fighting the villains, without them there would be no epic comics or cartoons, just some stories. In a realistic sense, if you can't keep a person locked up and rehabilitated, then the only thing to do would be to end them. A human being, in real life, can't break down brink walls or murder an entire city with their eyeballs, so this doesn't necessarily apply to them.

 

But, at what point does Doc Oc stop being a confused and hurt human being and start being a plague needing a vaccine?

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its all relative. it can vary from individual perspective (for example, someone can think its ok for the hero to kill or whatever else if there was no other way of stopping an extremelly harmful antagonist, while another person can think violence is almost never or never the answer so its inexcusable whatever the motive, etc.) and it can vary from entire cultural perspectives. the hero (or, since i guess talking specifically the modern manifestation of "superhero") is after all supposed to be a paragon of what that culture values most or, if not quite a supreme embodiment, then a tool in which many of the values and concerns of the culture can be explored through him. the hero of one culture can be seen as anothers villian. going back to cú chulainn just as  an example, he embodies everything tribal celtic society would have admired, which includes extreme, suicidal, and generally indiscriminate violence, a strong sense of honour and duty, and a promiscuous hypersexuality, but in light of modern western culture he would mostly be regarded as a villian/someone shouldnt look up to because he doesnt represent much that is promoted by that culture.

 

me, personally, id say there are no limits when its done in the name of honour but thats probably not intelligible/translatable exactly to the western concept of "superhero"

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Walking all over the gray area right now.

 

I don't know what the "point" is, if there is an exact number of people needing to be killed before the hero is blamed. Super Heroes are all about fighting the villains, without them there would be no epic comics or cartoons, just some stories. In a realistic sense, if you can't keep a person locked up and rehabilitated, then the only thing to do would be to end them. A human being, in real life, can't break down brink walls or murder an entire city with their eyeballs, so this doesn't necessarily apply to them.

 

But, at what point does Doc Oc stop being a confused and hurt human being and start being a plague needing a vaccine?

 

 

this is a discussion about super hero's, so the argument of "well in IRL" isn't exactly apt ;) lmao

 

the moral question is this.  Spiderman knows prison wont contain Doc Oc, because Doc Oc keeps breaking out of prison and going back on killing sprees.

 

because Spiderman knows this, but refuses to kill Doc Oc and instead continues to send him to prison (ie lets the cycle continue and the death toll get higher).  at what point is it Spidermans fault that Doc Oc is still taking innocent lives.  at what point, if ever, is the blood of those innocents on Spidermans hands; because he refused to go against his moral code and just kill Doc Oc.

Edited by Red2111
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Day 1 -

If you could choose 1 super power, what would you choose and why?  How would you use your super power?  Would you be a good guy, a villain or a merc?

 

I would fall like the Kings of men. I would take this power and start for the greater good.............but I would fall. To convenience and the pursuit of vices. 'Because i can' would definitely take me over. I would totally be ruled by the dark side of the force. Seduced, I would be. 

 

As to what form that would take is soooooooooooo hard. I've always been a fan of Marvel's Kurt  Wagner and Piotr Rasputin aka; Night Crawler and Colossus.  Also, DC's Wally West and Hal Jordan aka; The Flash and Green Lantern. As Wally or Kurt I could never be contained. No prison would hold me but I would be physically week. As Piotr I would be a juggernaut. Unstoppable. But still human when I tire. As Hal, I could create a frickin SPACE STATION and live there. Calling it New Oa for the lost planet of the Lantern Corps. I could be like a god but the power of the ring is finite.  

 

 

Day 2 -

In the debate between DC versus Marvel, which universe is better in your opinion.  Also, who is your favorite: X-men, Avenger, Justice Leauger, favorite DC & Marvel hero/villain?

 

I have always leaned towards DC. I can't really express why though. IMO DC just seems to be.......heavier. Xmen is awesome and has some pretty stellar story arcs and Marvel is broad. There's a lot going on there. I just can't remember the last time I got goose bumps when hearing them. Not like I did for Infinite Crisis, or Kingdom Come or The New 52 from DC. I think I am drawn to the variety of characters' abilities and sources of their abilities in DC. Marvel is 'mutation' 95% of the time. DC is aliens, and magic and intelligence. There is more of a snese of an Other with DC. Marvel's mutants builds on a sameness we can identify with. Anyone of us could have been a mutant. We could be related to a Mystique right now and not even know! We'll never be a last living alien from a destroyed planet but we could TOTALLY become an adamantium skeletoned vig. 

 

Favorite Avenger, hmmmmmmm........I would have to go with The Hulk. Waitin for him to go off in a Gamma Rage is awesome. 

 

Fav Marvel Villain.......... Apocalypse. Most definitely. The Next step in the history of the evolution of man and mutant. His is the will and the ability and the psychotic need to be the one to cull the heard.  He looks awesome. Has the greatest villain name of EVER and the personality that goes wayyyyyyyyy beyond both. 

 

Fav DC villain.................Funny enough, Darkseid who lives on Apokolips. lol One of Superman's main villains and Mr Mxlptlk. 

 

 

Day 3 -  

do you think the willingness to kill, to do what ever needs to be done to get the job done, is what makes a villain; or do you think that in certain scenarios, its okay for the good guy to use the last resort of killing.

 

take the recent Superman movie, where Superman kills in the end.  for a hero that basis his entire code around "i'll not kill" seeing him snap the neck in an un-avoidable situation was jarring to many fans.  Do you think this makes him less "Superman" and just a Vig with a moral compass.

 

Adding onto that, reading the "Mutant Registration" comics, a shield agent asked Captian America this question:

 

"Spiderman locks up Doc Oc 100 times a week, only to have Doc bust out again and go out and kill hundreds of people.  At what point is the blood of those innocents on Spidermans hands because he doesn't do what needs to be doing?"  (by "needs to be doing" the shield agent is implying killing Doc Oc)

 

this is a great philosophical question, especially in a realm with such super hero's and super villains.   at what point does the refusal of the heros to kill the villains put the blood of the innocent on the heros hands?

 

I cannot say how disappointed i was by Superman killing Zod. That's a core issue of Superman that should not have been changed. He isn't just unwilling he is incapable of it. Also, to have it be such an integral character to the story of Superman being killed is just dumb. lol IMO at least. 

 

As for metahumans killing in general? Terrible idea. As a regular human I would be afraid of "super heroes" havin the ability to make that call. It should be left to the justice system. If Doc Oc had been arrested x amounts of times and WE haven't killed him, it's just as much our fault. If I had the ability to I'd offer it. "Look, I just caught this dude AGAIN for you. You want me to end it because only my super power can, let me know. I got you. ;) " Then again, that's Doc Oc. Human threat. If you're talkin some intergalactic/demonic/future-war-comin-into-the-past where we are grossly underpowered? Let the meta humans do what metahumans do. Kill'em all. 

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very good discussion so far ^_^  thank you everyone for participating and i'm glad that you find the questions well enough to respond to.

 

 

Million makes a great point about in that philosophical question that it would be equally our part depending on the villain  (people like Joker, Luther, Doc Oc ...  these are normal people whose "powers" come from their intelligence and psychosis)  So its just as much of societys fault as it is the Hero's fault.

 

but i think we all know who society would blame, if blame ever came into the picture xD

 

 

which brings me to the next question.

 

 

Brandon Sanderson has written a series called "The Reckoners" which deals with every day people developing super powers (some people but not all people).  Steelheart came out last year, and last month Firefight came out.

 

what is your opinion on the world that Sanderson has created?  How the societies in that world have evolved (or devolved)?  How Sanderson treats the powers of the Epics (some having one one power, while others have layers of powers)? 

 

Adding onto this, if Mutants and Aliens and Gods and Super Intelligent people started coming about, like what we see in the DC and Marvel universes, how do you think it would effect our society?  Would they be our overlords, like in Sandersons series? would we fear and respect and cheer for them as vigilantes like in Gotham? would we hold them up as the symbol of our society and rever/worship them like in Metropolis?  Use them as the worlds police like in Avengers?  Or the route that Xmen takes, where we try to "cure" them and eventually Register them and imprison them?

 

How do you think the citizens and governments would try to keep a balance of power? Extermination, Legislation or Immunity?

Edited by Red2111
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