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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Protagonists Constant Whining


Lyanna Tears
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I'm new to The Wheel of Time series. Fell in love with epic fantasy since reading A Song of Ice and Fire. My biggest complaint is the main male characters constant whining about their fate and how didn't want it or ask for it. I'm only on book 2 The Great Hunt. It's off putting. I'm use to way more horrible things happening to characters in ASOIAF with no woe-that is me mentality. Will Rand, Mat and Perrin continue their self-pity whining for the rest books?

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

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Oh, yes, they will continue. Though in fairness they will have more legitimate reasons for complaining in the future.

 

But none of them reaches Tyrion or Stannis level so I am bit baffled by your claim that there are no characters with "woe that is me" mentality in ASOIF. ;)

Edited by David Selig
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Somebody was criticizing Rand's attitude in the first few books in another thread. Honestly, these 3 boys WEREN'T boys looking for adventure. They were pretty happy in Two Rivers. Yeah sure, they had "dreams" of seeing the world, but that's like a normal person today dreaming of being a movie star. When taken out of their home and threatened constantly by monsters and whatnot... they are freaked out. And they'll whine. They won't be like: "F**k yeah! Trollocs and shit!". 

 

At the end of the day, they are taveren and they get shit done. Rand and Perrin despite the fact they were afraid and anxious STILL managed to fight off Whitecloaks, Trollocs, Fades and whatnot. Especially Rand. Handling business like the effin boss of Saidin, despite his crappy attitude and that is THE MOST important thing. I have no problem with characters feeling sorry for themselves as long as that's not all they do. Mat for instance, I had a real problem with his attitude while he was under the dagger's influence. Just because it seemed unfair to me that Rand had to carry his worthless ass around and take care of him, while still dealing with his own issues. Thankfully Mat improved significantly in the third book.

Edited by PopCultureDiva
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Hah! That's the best response to that particular criticism I've seen. Excellent stuff. 

 

Really, I'd be pretty annoyed and whiny myself if I got dragged from my nice peaceful village, chased by crazy monsters, found out I was going to go insane and pretty much the whole world would want to kill me, or find out I have some weird power that changes my eyes yellow and wolves keep talking to me. Yet, as PCD said, they still continue on and get stuff done. They are entitled to whine about some of the crap they are put through, it's thoroughly human, which is something that frustrates many readers. 

 

It's one of the things I appreciate about the series. The characters don't all act logically, sensibly or appropriately in all situations. They act exceptionally human. And humans are the most frustrating creatures on earth. 

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Selig while I understand they have legitimate reasons to hate their circumstances it drives me crazy because it's all three and every other chapter. That is a lot of complaining. I have to disagree about Tyrion and Stannis whining. Stannis accepts his duty and only mention a few times he never asked for it. And only then to rebuff those that would have dissuade him from it. Without a POV for inner monologue its not much. While Tyrion accepts his reality. He handle it with wit and humor.

 

Diva I can see your point about not being excited to court danger. But the constant whining is a annoying character flaw that 3 main characters have making them one note. So far Mat is my favorite character. His funny personality and getting in trouble stands out the most IMO. My only issue with him is how quick he turned against Rand when he found out he was able to channel. A legit response but something I didn't like.

 

Medar I'm not denying that don't have cause. It's just over the top and and unappealing in a main character. I was hoping as time went on there would be less. It doesn't stop me from loving the books. Just less drawn to them as heroes. I dislike Nynaeve and don't believe her hatred of Moraine is justified but at least she's not bemoaning about everything something go wrong.

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

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So you don't see why some people isolated from the world and content with their lives might complain some when suddenly their world comes crashing down around them?  Lets see they are hunted by the DO, attacked by trollocs, dark friends try to kill them, fog tries to kill them, Mydraal suddenly appear trying to kill them, total strangers appear and whisk them away, everyone tell you Aes Sedai can't be trusted, and then suddenly you get separated and are on your own.  If that's not bad enough your dreams are being invaded by what you think is the DO, told the fate of the world hangs on your shoulders, tasked to rescue the horn, find yourself in the blight, traveling the ways and being attacked by an evil entity, suddenly can talk to wolves, end up killing white cloaks, told an evil spirit is trying to posses you etc etc etc  and you don't understand why they are whining at times?  Would if of been better when they discover Rand can channel, destined to go mad and probably try to kill them, to simply act like it was no big deal?

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I'm new to The Wheel of Time series. Fell in love with epic fantasy since reading A Song of Ice and Fire. My biggest complaint is the main male characters constant whining about their fate and how didn't want it or ask for it. I'm only on book 2 The Great Hunt. It's off putting. I'm use to way more horrible things happening to characters in ASOIAF with no woe-that is me mentality. Will Rand, Mat and Perrin continue their self-pity whining for the rest books? If I look back, I'm lost...

The only one that got under my skin as the books progressed was Perrin's nagging and insisting that he's only a blacksmith.  I found it comical in the early books how the boys think each other one is better with girls, like Perin thinking Mat would know what to do and Mat thinking that Rand would know how to handle a situation.

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I'm new to The Wheel of Time series. Fell in love with epic fantasy since reading A Song of Ice and Fire. My biggest complaint is the main male characters constant whining about their fate and how didn't want it or ask for it. I'm only on book 2 The Great Hunt. It's off putting. I'm use to way more horrible things happening to characters in ASOIAF with no woe-that is me mentality. Will Rand, Mat and Perrin continue their self-pity whining for the rest books? If I look back, I'm lost...

I'm not sure if we read the same series. Jon and Tyrion whine about their fate more than the WoT characters.

 

But the characters in both series have completely valid reasons to act that way, I think.

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Sabio It's more how they choose to deal. I don't know about you but to me whining is not a good quality. Yes a lot happen to them but whining about not going to change anything. Brood a bit, reflect on how good your life was before as much as you want. That is better than feeling sorry for yourself. Accept it, fight against it too but please no more "I didn't ask for this" moaning. We get it. No reminder needed ever other chapter.

 

 

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

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DawnFlower Maybe we didn't read the same series. I don't remember them whining about their fate. Jon realize being a part of the Night Watch was not as easy as he thought. He was resentful of being a bastard. Tyrion didn't whine about being a dwarf or his father and sister not loving him. If anything they dealt with there lot in a admiring way. Tyrion always talk about owning your flaws so no one can use it against you. He didn't ask for Lady Catelyn to kidnap him, be tossed in a sky cell, encounter mountain clans, for his his father to put him on the frontlines of a battle or to have a bunch of other bad things happen to him. Yet you didn't read Tyrion Whining about it all the time. Mentioning he didn't ask to be Hand is not complaining. Please give me some examples. I think we have different ideas about what qualifies as whining.

 

 

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

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I think that at first they wOULD wine, I mean they where fine just being farm boys and now they are thrusted into something as big as saving the world. However there is a limit to fighting it and excepting it. I guess the main problem they would have is, is they never thought they would be incharge of other peoples lives especially when it comes to putting people in life and death situations.

Hang in there, my issue is the female characters and there regards to males and where they fit in.

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H1ammer24 Yes I can definitely see where your coming from. Nynaeve and Egwene often say negative things about men a lot. Their general attitude is of superiority. I didn't like Nynaeve and was indifferent to Egwene until Liandrian betrayal to them. Now Nynaeve is doing something besides being a B to everyone and Im getting a better sense of Egwene as a character. I LOATHE the Seanchan.

What they're doing to the Aes Sedai makes my blood boil! It's taking everything in me not to look up if they ever get there Just Deserts.

 

 

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

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DawnFlower Maybe we didn't read the same series. I don't remember them whining about their fate. Jon realize being a part of the Night Watch was not as easy as he thought. He was resentful of being a bastard. Tyrion didn't whine about being a dwarf or his father and sister not loving him. If anything they dealt with there lot in a admiring way. Tyrion always talk about owning your flaws so no one can use it against you. He didn't ask for Lady Catelyn to kidnap him, be tossed in a sky cell, encounter mountain clans, for his his father to put him on the frontlines of a battle or to have a bunch of other bad things happen to him. Yet you didn't read Tyrion Whining about it all the time.

Yes, I did. The guy can't stop whining.

 

Tyrion didn't whine about being a dwarf? Really? He only did it about 237 times.

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Lyanna,

 

I completely agree with you for the most part. At some point a protagonist has to realize "I have this power, I need to make the best of my situation and stop whining about the circumstances I'm in." 

 

It's funny because my father is actually reading the series and exactly where you are, and last weekend he called me to make precisely the same complaint.

 

Sure it's justified that they could be upset because they were content in their home, and now everyone seems to want them dead. But when you're given power and told you are key players in the world, you have to accept your situation and move on.  It makes it tough to love my favorite characters when they are constantly complaining.  They're both awesome and slightly annoying. But the series is my favorite of all time so I deal with it and keep reading on (I'm on Crown of Swords).

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Sure it's justified that they could be upset because they were content in their home, and now everyone seems to want them dead. But when you're given power and told you are key players in the world, you have to accept your situation and move on.  It makes it tough to love my favorite characters when they are constantly complaining.  They're both awesome and slightly annoying. But the series is my favorite of all time so I deal with it and keep reading on

.

That's how I feel as well.  Everybody here has made good points, but I just wish that Jordan and Sanderson could have dialed this part of the characters bellyaching back a weeeee bit.

 

 

And to quote Tam addressing this very issue to one of the major characters in book 12 :

 

"I just thought you were over this."

Edited by Cosmic Champion
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From what I recall of the first 2 books, the 3 taveren seldom told that they did not want their lives; and from the later books, that seemed to become rare.

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