How did Moiraine find Rand?

[firstfuerst - Member]

After Gitara Moroso foretells the birth of the Dragon Reborn and the White Tower issues the Bounty to all the women who'd given birth recently, was Kari al'Thor among the women whose name was gathered by the Accepted in their search? If so, why did she not recieve the 100 gold crowns (at least I couldn't find any evidence that she did)? Also, was she on Moiraine and Suian's secret list?

If she was not on that list, how did Moiraine narrow it down to a boy in the Two Rivers? How could she possibly have tracked him down if was busy searching for the "hundreds" of other names on her list? She only had 20 years and at the end of New Spring: "So few names remained that were easy to find." (Epilogue)

[Magicana - Member]

Spoiler below if you haven't read past book 4:

 

If you have read it:

 

Kari al'Thor isn't Rand's mother.

[BFG - Member]

That's why it took 18 years. I don't believe Tam took the bounty, and Moraine followed the rumour of a rumour to find him...

 

She also had prophecies to help, when she figured out to use them.

[mb - Member]

The Encyclopaedia site tells that Kari was in Moiraine's book.

Steven Cooper's timeline speculates Moiraine departing for her search on day 47 of the prequel.

 

by the way, the prequel takes place about 20 years before the start of the main series; not 18 years.

[Sabio - Member]

Considering how much mistrust there is concerning Aes Sedai there were probably many women who didn't announce they gave birth to have aes sedai seek them out not to mention living in such a remote part of the world its possible Kari and Tam never even heard of the bounty.  Tam especially I could see not wanting any aes sedai coin.   Basically it came down to following rumors that lead Moraine to the Two Rivers there was after all a lot of people to track down and the BA killed the other Aes Sedai looking for the dragon reborn.  Not to mention "accidents" were befalling men of a certain age so that complicated things, she also had to becareful and take things slow so she didn't attract the attention of the BA who didn't know she had been tasked with this.

 

The 18 20 years thing I think is a contradiction depending where you look, I thought RJ had said Rand was 18.  So some sources seem to point to 18 while others to 20.  The way they were in Two Rivers they seem immature for 20.  I always assumed late teens.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Sabio

[mb - Member]

I do not recall anywhere telling any particular age for the men.  I recall somewhere telling that the men seemed lucky.

 

Moiraine chose to search for him; she was not told to search.

 

And like I told at the beginning of the post, the Encyclopaedia site told that Kari was part of Moiraine's book.  http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/k/kari_althor.html

[James Tham - Member]

Theoryland's databse of interview has this entry:

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 21st, 1998

TPOD Signing Report - John Novak (Paraphrased)

ROBERT JORDAN

Moiraine lost her list sometime between New Spring and The Eye of the World. By the opening of the story, all she could remember was that there had been a name from the Two Rivers.

FOOTNOTE

The novel version of New Spring had not been released at this time. The Legends version included a mention of Kari, which RJ decided to remove in the novel version because of the confusion: ["Kari al'Thor. From Andor? Husband Tamlin, Second Captain of he Illianer Companions, took discharge." That pair might have gone anywhere in the world and there was doubt she had had a child at all.]

[jack of shadows - Member]

@sabio,

in the beginning of our story rand is neither 18 nor 20,

according to steve cooper timeline:

rand was born on 25 of november 978 ne(new spring),

first scene with rand and his father walking towards emond's field

did occur on 23 march 998ne(eye of the world),so rand is 19 and 4 months old.

Edited September 5, 2014 by jack of shadows

[mb - Member]

Actually, the timeline gives a time frame for Rand's birth.  Danu 2-12.

On none of those days does it explicitly tell that Rand was born.

 

The main series begins Aine 8.  From the midpoint of the time frame, that would be 4 months plus 1 day.  from the end, 4 months minus 4 days, or 3 months plus 24 days.  from the beginning, 4 months plus 6 days.

Danu, Taisham, Jumara, Saban, Aine.

[jack of shadows - Member]

@mb,

gitara moroso had her foretelling about the dragon being reborn on danu 2,

that's 25 of november in our calendar,so we have more than a time frame

for rand's birth,we have his exact date of birth.

[mb - Member]

From my understanding, all Foretellings in this series are told before their respective events.

the Foretelling to me only gives conditions for the date, not the date itself.

 

Also, some later scene in the book comments about the date.  chapter 8; last paragraphs.

[Sabio - Member]

Gitara had a  foretelling but she had it at the moment it happened not before, she specifically said "He is born again, I feel him! The dragon takes his first breath on the slope of Dragonmount!  He is coming!  He is coming! Light help us!  Light help the world!  He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder!  He burns like the sun!"  So she had the foretelling at the moment Rand was born.

 

In the great Hunt Moriane tells Rand nearly 20 years ago the Aiel crossed the spine of the world, and in the BWb is in the late spring of 976 the aiel swept over the dragonwall.  The battle of Tar Valon happened the morning of the day before Danshu in the year of grace 978 and the trollocs came in 998.  So seems Jack is right, Rand is probably a few months older then 19.

 

In the great hunt Moraine describes finding Rand as :There were many fatherless children after that  battle.  But we found a story that one man had found an infant on the mountain.  That was all.  A man and an infant boy.  So we searched on.  For years we searched, finding other clues, pouring over the prophecies.  'He will be of the ancient blood, and raised by the old blood', That was one, there were others.  But there are many places where the old blood, descended from the age of Legends, remains strong. 

[mb - Member]

If it was told the very moment (or after), it would not be a Foretelling.

And at least 1 other Foretelling in this series is spoken in present tense::  Nicola's in Lord of Chaos.

[Dagon Thyne - Member]

From my understanding, all Foretellings in this series are told before their respective events.

the Foretelling to me only gives conditions for the date, not the date itself.

 

Also, some later scene in the book comments about the date.  chapter 8; last paragraphs.

I always wondered that.  How did they know it was going to be during the Aiel War?  It could have been 30 years later with the Dragon Reborn being born to some random mountain climber. 

 

They didn't know that the Aiel were connected to the Dragon Reborn at that time.  Or that the old blood meant the blood of Manetheren.  So, how did they track down Rand?  There are several ancient kingdoms whose decendents could be called "of the old blood".

Edited September 8, 2014 by Dagon Thyne

[Sabio - Member]

Exactly, I doubt when anyone read "He will be of the ancient blood" thought Aiel before it happened not even sure after he was born if any of the Aes Sedai knew for sure it was an Aiel woman who gave birth to the Dragon.  Moraine even commented there were many places the old blood still run strong, the two rivers being so far from any place was probably an after thought to look.  I must say I still find it odd a woman 9 month pregnant is in any condition to be fighting in a battle.  Most by the stage struggle just to get out of bed let alone running into a fight.

[Dagon Thyne - Member]

Exactly, I doubt when anyone read "He will be of the ancient blood" thought Aiel before it happened not even sure after he was born if any of the Aes Sedai knew for sure it was an Aiel woman who gave birth to the Dragon.  Moraine even commented there were many places the old blood still run strong, the two rivers being so far from any place was probably an after thought to look.  I must say I still find it odd a woman 9 month pregnant is in any condition to be fighting in a battle.  Most by the stage struggle just to get out of bed let alone running into a fight.

She wasn't fit to fight, but she convinced Rand's father to allow her to.

 

But I doubt she did much fighting.  She was there because she knew she had to give birth to Rand on the mountain. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Dagon Thyne

[Orderofolde - Member]

 

Exactly, I doubt when anyone read "He will be of the ancient blood" thought Aiel before it happened not even sure after he was born if any of the Aes Sedai knew for sure it was an Aiel woman who gave birth to the Dragon.  Moraine even commented there were many places the old blood still run strong, the two rivers being so far from any place was probably an after thought to look.  I must say I still find it odd a woman 9 month pregnant is in any condition to be fighting in a battle.  Most by the stage struggle just to get out of bed let alone running into a fight.

She wasn't fit to fight, but she convinced Rand's father to allow her to.

 

But I doubt she did much fighting.  She was there because she knew she had to give birth to Rand on the mountain. 

 

You have to remember that this wasn't just one battle, it was many spread across a significant period of time.  Armies have smiths and camp followers who bear children along the way in these settings.

[wotfan4472 - Member]

Gitara's Foretelling was in a moment that would have been dangerous to have even a day's warning. The BA would have had time to find the baby, especially if Isahmael was active at this time and directing them. Nicola's Foretelling was a different case; it literally described what happened in the Pit of Doom after the Last Battle. The line " the future teeters on the edge of a blade" is a direct reference to Moridin holding Callandor, though we did not know it at the time.

Edited September 9, 2014 by wotfan4472

[jack of shadows - Member]

@wotfan4472,

 

i completely agree.

the pattern first priority was to protect rand at all costs,

it never intended to give a group of  hostiles  even a few hours advantage and the opportunity

to  wait on the slopes of dragonmount for a pregnant woman to appear.

the moment gitara moroso finished  her foretelling it was  already  too late,tam was in the vicinity.

Edited September 9, 2014 by jack of shadows

[mb - Member]

by the prefix "fore", the telling always comes before fulfillment.  if the telling came after fulfillment, the term would be post-telling; and if at the very moment, probably just "telling".

[buckeyebull64 - Member]

Mb, but Jordan made it very clear that there was a lot to these Talents, like Foretelling, that the AS didnt understand and may not be accurate about.  So just because the AS named this Talent "Foretelling", that doesnt mean that a Foretell-er can ONLY see the future. 

Edited October 3, 2014 by buckeyebull64

[Sabio - Member]

We have seen this many of times that just because the Aes Sedai believe something doesn't mean its totally accurate.  Moriane called it foretelling, it could be that foretelling the exact moment something happens is just extremely rare. 

[mb - Member]

Mb, but Jordan made it very clear that there was a lot to these Talents, like Foretelling, that the AS didnt understand and may not be accurate about.  So just because the AS named this Talent "Foretelling", that doesnt mean that a Foretell-er can ONLY see the future. 

Could you provide exact words and a link?

[damandred - Member]

didnt the foretelling spoken to Rands mum say, something about when the Aiel got to Tar Valon?

[Sabio - Member]

That was another foretelling, basically she was told to go into the waste and seek out the maidens.  She wasn't to return until the maidens went to tar valon.  The foretelling she had which I still don't understand was telling Luc he had to go into the blight.  Was that simply to take him out of the Andor rulership equation to ensure Elayne mom could take the throne?.  Seems all she did was send him to his death when he encountered Isam.  I don't see how his going to the blight helped, beides leading to the creation of slayer.