Aspects of BDSM in the White Tower and Elsewhere in Randland

[alienfreak29]

Does it seem to anyone else, that there is an aweful lot of women being made to get naked, or at least down to their shifts, and getting either slippered, strapped or flat out whipped?

 

This seems to happen an aweful lot in the White Tower, among the Aiel Wise Women, the Suldam with their Damane....basically in any camp where women can channel.

 

What is up with the violent, and covert sexuality that pervades WOT?

 

What is it about the Aes Sedai in the White Tower that seems to lean toward Female Domination as conceived in American pop culture?

 

Am I the ONLY one who sees this?

[Guest Egwene]

I have not read any sexual conotation in those scenes, Alienfreak. I think it is based on medieval periods when beatings of your servants, family and employees as punishment was far more normal and accepted than it is nowadays.

 

There is also the tradition of many cults/religions etc, to toughen themselves up so to speak by living harsh. And beatings (self or administered) used to be all the fashion.

[edman]

I never saw these beatens and what not as sexual in nature.

[reyler]

I saw the topic and I just had to read it.

 

I think why you're perceiving it as being sexual in nature is the fact that a lot of the punishment going on involves public nudity, which is now exclusively seen as having a sexual context. And in Randland, in mixed company at least some people consider that to be the case, but when it's just women, at least, it doesn't seem to have any bearing on the situational context, and it means next to nothing to the Aiel. Nudity hasn't always been like that. There's probably a very good reason statues of Greek gods and heroes and such are always nude.

 

That said, I do still find myself raising an eyebrow at how often the women in this story are featured in scenes of full or partial nudity. I mean really, the Amyrlin raising ceremony? At the very least, it's disproportionate. All we have to balance that is a couple of scenes of Rand naked, whereas every time you turn around, another female character is walking around in her skin. It gets a little distracting.

 

You know what I mean!

[RobertAlexWillis]

Gender inequality became an issue in Randland, in channeling groups especially, because of the taint on saidin. Thats whats behind all the nakedness at offical Aes Sedai meetings.

 

As for the rest, nudity is regarded very differently in non-western cultures. I remember the first time I had a spiritual, religion based conversation with a naked breasted woman, and it didn't seem weird to me at all. It was certainly non-sexual. That was when I knew I'd been out of the States for a while. :D

 

As for nakedness during punishment, thats very, very simple. Getting smacked on a naked bottom hurts worse than if you keep your clothes on, so if you view pain as a deterrent (as the Aes Sedai clearly do), naked spankings are a better from a disciplinary point of view.

[alienfreak29]

Wow, you'll have to tell what non-western country you were in to have a conversation about religion and what not with a naked breasted woman!

 

I have to say I agree that getting spanked on a bare bottom surely does hurt more than if one has clothes on.

 

And I also agree that to the Aiel, nakedness is not seen as it is to "wetlanders". However, there really does seem to be a HUGE disproportion to the amount of naked butt beatings, birchings etc. in the White Tower and among Aes Sedai and among the Seanchan Suldam and Damane than anywhere else.

 

And yes, it does seem extremely cult-like for sure.

 

This is not the only thing however. The relationship of Aes Sedai to Warder seems like that of a Dominant and a Submissive if one has read the popular literature (And I've read some online. It bears more than a little resemblance to it. (I wish the Warders would rise up and rebel against the Aes Sedai honestly. And Jahar should tell Merise where to stick it!)

[RobertAlexWillis]

Wow, you'll have to tell what non-western country you were in to have a conversation about religion and what not with a naked breasted woman!

 

The Philippines, in a little town called Castillejos, just north of Olongapo. The major metropolitan centers of the Philippines have been very westernized, but take a trip out into the bundok sometime ... I met people who had never seen a white person.

 

(Bundok is the Tagalog word for mountain, but it is used colloquially to mean any rural location)

[Graendals favourite]

You have to keep in mind that the American culture is especially known for seeing nudity as exclusively sexual. Already in Europe it tends to be different.

 

In the context of bathing, nudity is not sexual in Finland. It is not done as in Shienar here, and you do not go around flaunting yourself, but bathing in a less crowded place where you do not force people to look, people need not look if they don't want to. Sauna especially is not supposed to be a sexual place, though perhaps a man and woman together there might raise questions. Anyway, one is not supposed to wear garments inside.

 

Going out of the western culture, no doubt the compulsion to cover certain parts of the body always would probably be curious. That is, cover them otherwise than to keep them safe from being wounded or from the sun.

 

Of course there's the Arabic and Indian cultures too :)

[Someshta]

So long as they're not smoothing their skirts, they can be dressed however they like. Entirely too much skirt smoothing going on.

 

I don't see it as sexual either. So far as the punishments go, it's not just that bare bottoms smack better; shame is far more punishing than a beating.

 

In all honesty, if any movies are ever made, I hope they tone down on it some. Seems it might be a bit too distracting to have Berelain nearly spilling her cash & prizes every time she bows.

[Anajon]

I think a lot of the nudity in the Aes Sedai traditions - has to do with the magic/Wicca background. At least it comes up in lot of novels that are based on these ideas - main spells and ceremonies have to be done sky clad - meaning wearing only the sky (air) - in these ceremonies the powers are the elements air, fire, earth, spirit or water I'm not sure. I really only know from books about this not big into doing magic myself :-)

 

as for the culture in Germany man and woman use the public sauna together with out thinking a thing (at least most) While I know that most of my American and South African friends would even go naked into an all woman sauna. It really depends what you grow up with.

I think Indian Saris are extremely erotic - a male Indian friend told me that showing your waist is not sexy at all - but if you see a girls ankle, well that is something....:-?

 

I think it is great that we are all so different!

[Slinx]

Can't recall any of it to be sexual, but maybe it's just wishful thinking? :)