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buckeyebull64

Is Perrin wishful thinking?

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Perrin assumes in the epilogue that the boys are no longer ta'veren. On one hand, this could be the authors' way of saying "ok, story over." On the other hand, there's a new age starting, an apocalypse to recove from, and a leadership void that the pattern has to fill, that the boys seem to be in position to fill (even rand/moridin, why have a new power with no purpose for it?)

 

Besides all that, this is PERRIN, Mr. I-just-want-to-be-a-normal-guy Perrin, making this assumption, the most reluctant of all ta'veren. Could it be wishful thinking on his part? Are the boys still ta'veren (maybe not as strongly) or not?

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I doubt there is any way to know for sure, are you born a ta'veren so do you die a ta'veren?  Or can you be born one and once the pattern feels you have served your purpose does it go away.  Perrin is really basing his assumption on no colors in his head when he thinks about Mat or Rand.  The effects of being a ta'veren aren't always noticeable so he just might not really realize it.   But I guess its also possible to say now  that the pattern "is done with them" they might just normal people again since there might not be a need for them now.  His finding Faile at the end against all odds might be the effects of being ta'veren still.  I think he still his since it wouldn't make sense to be a temporary ta'veren but he is really just assuming he isn't anymore.

Edited by Sabio

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I always thought that they'd stay ta'veren, even though they've already done what the pattern needed them to, so it could be possible that they aren't anymore....I don't know. 

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According to the Wiki:

 

"No one is born ta'veren, they are made so as the Wheel needs them to be."

 

To add to that, the impression I got in the series was that ta'veren-ness both comes and goes (not from day to day, but rather as the Pattern needs it). The three may well have ceased to be ta'veren (one needn't be ta'veren to have an important role in shaping society, after all). Some might become so again, although that seems strange and kind of arbitrary (why would they cease to be ta'veren only to become so again later?). My sense is that Rand's done with ta'veren-ing for good. I get the impression Perrin is, too. I don't get the impression that Mat is, just because of his weird luck thing (which I know isn't just an artifact of being ta'veren, but it seems connected somehow). What's for sure is that their ta'veren connection is gone, so if they're ta'veren, it's (1) not for a joint purpose, and (2) probably much weaker (what could be more important than the LB after all?).

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im sure ive seen a RJ quote where he says the effects of ta'veren ebbs and flows according to the need of the pattern. I think just being in the role of leadership will be ok for mat and perrin, Rand who knows.

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They became t'averen upon leaving the 2 Rivers. And t'averen are there to correct unbalances in the Pattern. I suspect that given the defeat of the DO that Rand and Perrin are no longer t'averen but Mat is as he needs to help sort out the Seanchan Empire

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See so basically the pattern uses you and tosses you to the curb when done.  The pattern is a fickle mistress.

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Robert Jordan also told that nobody is born taveren.

 

Rand's pipe lighting seemed to indicate that at least Rand was still taveren.

 

If Rand is still taveren, the other 2 probably still are.

 

It seems to me that only a permanent death could make a taveren into a non-taveren.  Or if he/she returns from death, the return not caused by balefire; or by soul transmigration.

Edited by mb

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It is probably just Perrin's perspective.  After all, in around 18-20 years some stuff is going down on account of several new heroes being born.  They will do hero stuff which means wars and conflict and daring-do.

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Heroes aren't always doing hero stuff, after all Brigette described being a farmer once.  A hero isn't necessarily a hero in every life sometimes they get spun out as a regular person.

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Birgitte a farmer?  Which book told that?

 

a Hero sometimes a regular person?  Where was that told?

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