[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[dawnflower8]

I don't think we have. I was pretty much ignoring Dice earlier in the game.

[Tommyrod]

I don't think we have. I was pretty much ignoring Dice earlier in the game.

I think everyone was ignoring Dice. I'm gonna look to see if the dead scum went at him. If not

-- ruh roh.

[dawnflower8]

Dice has been kind of inactive, hasn't he? He was probably being super quiet just so he wouldn't attract attention to himself. 

[Tommyrod]

Dice has been kind of inactive, hasn't he? He was probably being super quiet just so he wouldn't attract attention to himself.

It scares me that we agree.

[Tommyrod]

yes darthe i know   rolls eyes    now that the memefest is over i will play too.

 

 

so far i am reading

 

cory/aj town

 

tommy town (thats unusual)

 

leaning town on dawn

 

question about hydras. Can one head be mafia and one head town?

This is Dice's OP. At the time, Len correctly said "yuck" to this.

[dawnflower8]

Why, because you think I'm scum or because I'm normally clueless? Or both?

[Tommyrod]

Why, because you think I'm scum or because I'm normally clueless? Or both?

Both. To my eye the only thing that's keeping you from being scum is Lenlo's character claim. So I am a bit nervous about you voting Dice right after Cloud. But if Dice is mafia, looks good for you... doubt the plan is to hard bus at LyLo.

[dawnflower8]

I would have voted Dice even if Cloud hadn't. He just beat me to it. 

[Xthrax]

##VOTE DICE

 

Edited to fix voting format

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

I, like len was thinking that you should have kept some of that original info back Yates but now that you explain it, it does make sense.

 

 

Tina i am hurt. Did you forget I was in the game? Even after quoting something with my quote in it??

 

 

Oops! Sorry Dice. I went over that post twice to see that I didn´t forget anyone. Actually I don´t know where I got you this game. You sound much more calm than you use to do. Maybe it´s because people haven´t suspected you much yet? But you have almost the opposite thoughts than I have. You have a town read on both Red and Mynd, who are on the top on my scum list. Then we have posts like these:

 

 

also  mynd kept asking des to case or give his reads on the hydras.

 

Why is that a bad thing? how is it different then asking someone for reads on a bunch of players?

 

What would it have hurt if someone did case the hydras? They may find some interesting info. they may almost clear some people. They may get mynd to shut up about hydras which a number o\f people seem to want.

 

 

Be clear here i am not saying focusing exclusively on the hydra's only is a good thing but i dont see how casing them is a bad thing either. Hydras are not masons there could be mafia among them.

 

 

Don´t know why you choose to agree with Mynd about the hydras. A lot of people have made lists including the hydras. But why focus only on them. You say that you don´t think that we should focus only on hydras but that is what Mynd seems to want and you are agreeing with him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also  mynd kept asking des to case or give his reads on the hydras.

 

Why is that a bad thing? how is it different then asking someone for reads on a bunch of players?

 

What would it have hurt if someone did case the hydras? They may find some interesting info. they may almost clear some people. They may get mynd to shut up about hydras which a number o\f people seem to want.

 

 

Be clear here i am not saying focusing exclusively on the hydra's only is a good thing but i dont see how casing them is a bad thing either. Hydras are not masons there could be mafia among them.

 

 

Right; they're no different than other players. Mynd has been arguing that they are more dangerous than a non-hydra player and using that as a reason to focus on them. It's factually incorrect, but has become a huge talking point because Mynd keeps bringing it up as if it's a really good strategy.

 

 

Blue   but they are a little. they have a QT and can work together to plot and achieve an end. that does make them a little different just like it does masons. Ordinary town players don't have somewhere to go and bounce ideas off someone or strategize except the thread.

 

 

Ehm... now I´m getting drawn into this fruitless discussion as well. Town hydras has someone to bounce ideas off - I don´t see why town hydras or scum hydras would be more powerful. 

 

 

@Tina - why do you feel that someone making bets on their alignment is more likely a scum thing to say?

 

 

I felt that she did it only to look town. 

 

I'm just not sure who I think is scum. Nobody has said anything that seems particularly scummy to me. I will admit that my last vote was just a bandwagon vote and I had no reason for voting her besides me wanting to get rid of my joke vote on Red (who I don't find scummy at all)

 

And I'm confused about all the random, non-game related meme stuff getting mixed up with what's important. It makes it difficult for me to figure out what is actually important and what is just silliness. Even a lot of things that look serious end up turning into some sort of joke.

 

 

96 pages and you think that nobody has said anything scummy?

 

Krak... are you holding a Seance?

 

 

I lol´d. 

 

Krak seriously looks like scum just trying to find posts scummy enough to push. I think his suspects are Red, Dawn, Dice, and... Nolder?

I think Dice was the only non consensus one. Then he stopped.

Since mafia didn't shoot Nolder he could have been reading the thread with only the knowledge that DesBat was dead.

Makes more sense than him remembering the small black font no-coroner reported death and not the large blue font death anyway.

 

 

This is quite possible. It´s strange that he didn´t remembered the first killed that was mentioned.

Here's the first time one of the scumdras spoke about Dice. It's about a 7.5 on the conspicuous scale; looks like some light friendly banter from Tina when she says "you sound much more calm than you used to" followed by her saying "we have opposite reads" and talking about the dumb hydra discussion. Reads like soft distancing.

 

This post also makes Red look a little better.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Lenlo: I´m not sure what to say about him. The "I told you so" post look ugly but he hasn´t said much this game.

 

Havnt said much? Ive said more than you and many others. It worries me that you are unable to decide one way or the other and take an actual stance on me.

 

Len - the first serious post you had was #922. First you posted a lot of jokes/fluff and then you were away. When you got back you did your catch up posts. In the last one you listed Mish, Red and Dawn as mafia, and Desbat, Dice and Jack as maybe mafia. I agreed with Red and Dawn but not the others. Then you voted Red, said Mishtress couldn´t be scum because of vanilla claim and the next I remember is that you told us that you knew Mish would turn up town. Not much to go on. 

 

Tina: Can you show me a post or two of mine that you like or agree with?

 

 

Sure. Wait.

Here Tina defends Dice against Lenlo. Womp womp.

[Tommyrod]

It has taken me a long time to catch up. Here are my thoughts:

 

Feels town:

 

Cory/AJ: Have gone after Red and Mynd and I agree with most things they have said. I also agree with Cory about Dawn. I´m not sure that I agree with Red being town but otherwise a lot of good posts.

 

Tommy: Like Cory/AJ, I like his posts.

 

Yates: I believe his vig claim. I also like they way he went after Red and Mynd.

 

X: Voted Mishtress, which I didn´t believe in, but he stayed there and had reasons for his vote.

 

Nyn/Kat: The same as X. I´m a little worried that X and Nyn buried their votes on a townie but they tried to convince others to vote there so I get a townie feeling.

 

 

Don´t know:

 

Zanube: All things she has done this game has been her strange vote. Want her to post more. Hope she is well.

 

Hally/Leelou: Hally seemed to hide behind her suspiciouns of Dawn but Leelou where more out in the open. I usually know her alignment but I can´t say she has done anything that is townie enough or scummy enough yet.

 

Jack: Will he read the whole thread soon?

 

Krak: The same for him.

 

Lenlo: I´m not sure what to say about him. The "I told you so" post look ugly but he hasn´t said much this game.

 

 

Mafia:

 

Mynd: I don´t like the way he defended Red. Why would anyone think someone would fakeclaim but still be town? I don´t like how he is going after the hydras. I didn´t like the story he tried to sell today with the na´s. I don´t like the way he talked about character claims being able to clear people. He said that we (Verbalina) jumped between Mish and Red which is false. We only voted Red.

 

Red: Still think she is mafia and I`m afraid that she will skate through the game now since she survived d1.

 

Dawn: I have only played one game with her and she was clueless in a way that made me believe she is town. Here she is more absent than clueless.

 

Amega/Cloud: Cloud has posted well but Amega has written some strange things. Amega went from believing Mynd to voting Mynd to vote Tommy for something that happend in the beginning of the game. Very weird.

 

I, like len was thinking that you should have kept some of that original info back Yates but now that you explain it, it does make sense.

 

 

Tina i am hurt. Did you forget I was in the game? Even after quoting something with my quote in it??

Tina's original reads list excluded Dice and Dice pointed it out. The post I quoted earlier where she distances from him was in response to this. That progression looks even worse now.

[Tommyrod]

1. Mistress (Mish/Tress) - If it was just Mish, I'd say straight up flustered. With Tress if feels like damage control and not fully liking how in her quick recap that she tied a few people to how Desbat flips. I feel like they've reigned in a bit and are trying to tighten up their game. Mish - how do you feel about X now? Townish with a hint of scum

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des) - I've liked Wombat's play so far. I'd like to see some more from Des though. Most memorable posts are him talking about dreams. 

3. Nolbat - He seems to be trying, I wouldn't say he's giving his all yet, but I wouldn't call him scum either. Lazyish townie. 

4. Krak - Where you at? 3 posts? Not cool, man. Not cool. 

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud) - Undecided. Cloud is #scumday1nomatterwhat and Amega isn't the strongest of players. So far Cloud hasn't done anything uber scummy to get a vote from me. null 

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej) - posting has been strong from both Cory and AJ, leaning town on them 

7. Lenlo - Mostly spammy, null. I'd like to see some comments on the events in the game. I know you can do it. 

8. X - I didn't see his op the way Mish did. I think he responded alright to Mish and Tress. I'd like to see some commentary from him on Red

9. Dawn - seems a bit jumpy, not sure if it's her newness still or if she doesn't want the attention on her. Null to slight scum 

10. Jack - just got to the party. Welcome

11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina) - Verbal seems on par for his level of posting. Tina could be a bit more inquisitive, but so far she hasn't set off my scum radar yet. Null

13. Dice - Barely active, but has been commenting on game play. Slight town lean, will change to a scum lean if he's not more active though

14. Zanube - Have you seriously only made 2 posts?!? 1 to say hi and 1 to comment on dreaming?

15. Red - I'm still having a hard time with your claiming as early as you did, especially after the ration of crap you gave Yates for his claim. We weren't near deadline and you were just at half the vote required for a lynch. Are you still voting Tommy over the Goat thing? Leaning jumpy scum. Also - I won't read skittle puke or quotes within quotes, so I probably won't read half your posts. 

16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat) - Meow. Okay, Nyn so far seems genuine in her posting. Townish lean on her

17. Mynd - Doing his beating the grass thing. Hi Mynd. So you thought Red claimed a big gun for a bit? Yeah unfortunately not. How do you feel about her super early claim? Why fear the hydras? 

18. Tommy - I don't really see where Tommy is "squirming" like Red seems to think he is. His posts are coming off with a townie vibe. Town lean

19. Yates - opened with a claim of VT, slight distraction but haven't seen any erratic behavior from him. Null 

 

##unvote, vote Red

Check out the way Leelou handles her "read" of Dice in this post and compare it to the townie Zanube right below.

 

Dice: "you've been inactive, but I'm reading you town, but if you get scummier I'll bus you."

Zanube: "you've been inactive, let's lynch the piss out of you!"

 

Dramatized, but I think you get the idea. Classic non-committal hedge on a scummate.

[Tommyrod]

Okay here our list - I'm going from what Hallia posted yesterday, so don't get on me about order. I have it ordered below. 

 

Town:

Yates/Red (Provided their claims are proven) - I am more likely to believe Yates. He hasn't been countered and this is the kind of play I'd expect from him. Red, despite her play, I'm giving her the benefit of doubt providing her role is vetted soon. If not, I will revisit her. 

Crayjay - Posting very protown, looking at all the angles. I agree with most of what they and Tom are saying

Tommy - Much like Crayjay, posting protown. Not afraid to look at different people

 

Scum reads:

Mynd - he has a fixation with only looking at a small pool of players that have shown both town and scum tendencies (more town than scum btw). He seems to be satisfied with ignoring the individual players and is fear mongering that the hydras are more of a danger. He does not seem willing to admit that the hydras that are town are more beneficial for town since they are basically a one role mason team. 

Krak - Not liking his catch up posts. Also forgetting Nol is dead seems like a scum slip since he could remember that Desbat were dead, yet they were written in black with no info under Nolder, who was in blue with his name and role. 

Megaloud - lots of inconsistencies in their play. Amega came off very defensive when Cory was trying to engage him a few pages back. Also his going after Tommy for something from very early in the game looked like he was trying to distance from the current lynch trains. Cloud almost felt like hardcore buddying with Mish near the end and his vote on Red seemed like he was trying some damage control from Amega. Cloud is more zen of the bunch, but I'm not getting the best of feelings from him. 

Dawn - Has not produced any reads, very self conscious and a bit defensive of how she is viewed in the game *just reading her new post now* Now she thinks Tommy is town? That's a complete 180. Looks like she's trying to go with the flow a bit too much. Not sticking her neck out and not trying to get dirty. Didn't like her switch to MishTress last min and couldn't entertain a lynch on Mynd. Not really liking any of her reasons for voting this game. 

Jack - I'm used to Jack being a bit more out there, this game he seems like he's been in a habitual catch up. He's the lowest on my scum list and could easily be switched out with some of the Null list. I'm actually waiting to see what his theories are today. 

 

Null:

 

Nyankat - Nyn's posts seem genuine, I almost have her in my town list, but she's not quite there yet. We want to wait and see what Kath has to present to the game. 

Verbalina - It's day 2. I'll be able to get a better feel for Verbal today. I wish Tina was a bit more inquisitive. They are close to scum. 

Dice - He's been quiet and tends to lay low as scum. I didn't get any reassuring feelings from his unvote in the middle of night phase. 

Zanube - extremely absent. She really needs to step it up for me to put her anywhere near my town pile, she is pretty high close to scum for me. Her last min vote on MishTress seemed very much like she was told to come on and vote and to pick anything to make it seem like it wasn't just a bandwagon vote. It was weird that she picked a post from Tress that she agreed with and then voted them. 

X - X seems like he's trying, it's a bit hard to get a 100% feel on him since he seems to be online at the times others are not. His interactions haven't felt forced though. 

Lenlo - I love that you are funny, but I want to see more game content from you. Give me your reads. Please. 

 

 

In line from scummy to towniess 

 

Mynd

Krak

Megaloud

Dawn

Jack

 

Zanube

Dice 

Verbalina (I will never get tired of typing that.)

 

Lenlo

X

Nyankat

 

Red 

Tommy

CrayJay

Yates

Here Leelou places Dice and Verb on the same "dunno lol" tier.

 

I've seen enough. Combine this with his overall lack of participation and his blatant scum slip regarding jack last night and we've got a live one.

 

##Vote Dice

[dawnflower8]

 

 

Dice - He's been quiet and tends to lay low as scum. I didn't get any reassuring feelings from his unvote in the middle of night phase. 

Did she just let it slip that Dice was scum there? 

[Tommyrod]

I doubt she would slip like that, but its a "yep just so you guys know I'm suspicious of him!" line on case Dice dies before her... it's not followed with any aggression. That's how you can tell the difference. See how in the post before that she was snarky at Zanube (a townie)? Yet with Dice she's just... flat. Fence sitting.

[dawnflower8]

So it's basically a really quiet distancing attempt that nobody really would notice. 

[Tommyrod]

So it's basically a really quiet distancing attempt that nobody really would notice.

Yup. The keyword in going through "spew" is aggression. Look for it. If confirmed scum repeatedly casts shadows on a player but never gets aggressive, it's far more likely to be a scum-scum interaction.

[Red2111]

Red; I'm glad you unclaimed, but I'm not glad you claimed in the first place. You could have forced a CC if there was a BG and you indirectly muddied the Doc claim situation. If the dead scummers went hard at you then I kinda doubt you're scum, but in terms of equity value for the town, we would have been better off if you claimed VT and were lynched D1 instead of MishTress since you were gone for a week. I'm not trying to shame you, but your play was selfish and anti town. Think about it for the next game maybe.

 

 

than i would have played it like the last time i faked claimed a healer as a nilla town.  when the helaer CC'd me in that game, i supported the real healer 100% even going so far as directly opposing their lynch and self voting myself.

 

you are right, in that it was a selfish move; but i will argue that it was anti-town.  its only anti-town if i cost the town more than what i gain them with the gambit.  i've fake claimed many times in games, both as town and scum, and i didn't fake claim on a whim, i had a very clearly thought out plan of where i wanted to go and how far i wanted to take it and a contengency plan if a CC happened (ie: claiming i can only use my role on odd nights, or i'm attached to a specific player).

 

 

that said, you just did what i'm doing in my catch up; analyzing Leelous and Halias interactions and Verbs as well.  i've got my own post i'm writing up thats up to page 103 on Leelou's interactions with Dawna nd her scum list as well that i'm about to post.

 

 

 

off topic - my teacher just posted my finale grade.  i got a 102 on my Finale, which according to the scor details thing that shows the highest, lowest and class average (then shows you where your grade sits in comparison), i also got the highest grade ont he Finale in my class

 

 

*struts*

 

 

it pulled my over all average up to an 89.5%.  i'm half a flamming point from gettign straight A's again this semester!!!  so i emailed my instructor asking "I wanted to ask you if theres anything, anything at all I can turn in (a drawing, a problem, write you a poem, bake you some cookies) worth .5's of a point to raise my grade to a 90?"  XD

 

gah i hope i get that half a flamming point!!!  i'm utterly stoked right now.

[Tommyrod]

Well done!

[Red2111]

 

So it's basically a really quiet distancing attempt that nobody really would notice.

Yup. The keyword in going through "spew" is aggression. Look for it. If confirmed scum repeatedly casts shadows on a player but never gets aggressive, it's far more likely to be a scum-scum interaction.

 

 

 SPEW - Society for the Promotion of Elfish Wellfare

 

 

 

SPEW

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count:

 

Tommy (1/5): Dice

Dawn (1/5): Red

Dice (4/5): Cloud, Dawn, X, Tommy

 

Not Voting (2/8):

Krak, Lenlo

[Tommyrod]

I voted.

 

##Vote Dice the Iceman

[Lenlo]

 

Tommy: Dice

Dawn: Red

Dice: Cloud, Dawn, X, 

 

Hey Darthe, you dont need to say anything, just nod your head at the person whos reads are correct. Cmon buddy I know you want to do it.

[Darthe]

Sorry Tommy, I was trying to get out that VC too quick.  

 

Lol Len