JenniferL

Mysterious Mommy: Just who was this Kari al'Thor?

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"there" is for place; "their" indicates possession.

Like I speculated earlier, her father might have been a merchant's guard and brought her along during one or more trip.

Another possibility for she going to Two Rivers could be some relative (on either side of her family) being either a merchant or merchant's guard.

The reason I thought someone leaving Two Rivers less likely was that she would not necessarily know that the person came from Two Rivers; and that travelers might at times speak differently than their native tongue.  Also that it is easier to distinguish a tongue after hearing it from multiple people; and probably easier when heard within the tongue's main place than elsewhere.

 

Tam meeting Kari might have been on the way to or from Illian.  Encyclopaedia site told she was a merchant's daughter from Caemlyn.

one possible route from Emond's Field::  Teren Ferry, Baerlon, Caemlyn, Lugard or Far Madding, Illian

or he could have gone to Lugard from Four Kings.  Caemlyn would for sure have been on his way to Tar Valon.

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Morgase' father a merchant guard?

Are we thinking of the same person?

I know she wasnt in line for the throne at that time but she was, never the less, a powerfull noble, heir to a great house. Unless im missing simething, ( it happens ) it seems very unlikely. Though i am unfamilar with her family beyond her kids.

Surely the most simple explanation for pinning a accent is, when you meet someone with a unfamilar accent, ask where their from.

 

 

I find it unlikely that Tam set out from the 2R with Illian in mind. It only says in tEotW that he went looking for adventure, but i guess we will never know, unless RJ' notes get published on the novel he was going to bring out telling Tam' story.

Hope so as i think that story is one of the most instresting , and the one i regret the most that with RJ' death we wont read.

 

Ps. Thanks for the English lesson!

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Sometimes travelers might hide (or keep silent about) their native land.  And if they tell the truth, the other person might not be able to confirm it without going there.

Another possibility::  either side of her family having estates in or near Two Rivers.

 

I did not say one way or the other on Illian being in his mind when he set out.  The destinations might have been decided somewhere along each road or sometime while on an earlier road.  Perhaps he heard about the places (and/or places along the way) from people he spoke to; or perhaps from overhearing conversations.

Or perhaps Tam heard about the places from peddlers and/or merchants before going.

 

Edit::

He might have gotten to Illian by boat; from either Teren Ferry or Whitebridge.

Edited by mb

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Why would anyone from the 2R lie about where they were from? Even Rand and co, the most closedmouthed people ever, were pretty up front about being from the 2R. And that was with all their troubles as well. I cannot think why any 2R native, in times of peace, would fail to be anything other than honest about where they were from.

There are no noble estates by the 2R the nearest bit of civilization to it, is Baerlon. Which is a mining town, and is described as being in the middle of the wilderness. The only reason it isnt ignored like the rest of the region is because it collects the ores from the mountains of mist. And even Baerlon is a week travel from Taren Ferry, and between Baerlon and Whitebridge is wilderness, there arnt even any farms. So no estates. I think the only people to visit the 2R' are merchants, for wool and tabac, it is just too isolated for anything else.

 

For Tam leaving, if he did arrive in Illian by ship, he could not of got it from Taren Ferry as its not a port just a place to cross the Taren River. But i would guess he saw a lot of the world before he ended up in Illian, he reconised Ebou Dar in tGS when Rand left through a gateway. RJ was going to devote a whole novel to Tam' adventures so i think it fair to guess he got to Illian the long way. Via Caemlyn? Maybe have a brief encounter with a certain young noble woman.

Edited by damandred

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I did not say the estates were noble ones.  Andor nobles at times marry commoners.

 

If Tam knew Morgase, I think he would have told so to Perrin and/or to Rand.  The only nobles that live in Caemlyn I take to be the queen and her immediate family.

And like I told earlier: if Morgase knew Two Rivers speech through Tam, likely Gareth and/or Elaida would also know.

Tam fought in the Whitecloak War; that was about 40 years before the start of the main series.  Latest for Tam to leave Two Rivers would be several months before then; several years before then might be more probable.

Morgase attended the White Tower several years before the Aiel War.  I guess she was a teen or preteen during her time there.

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I dont think there are estates around that area, noble or otherwise. Perrin notices a few farms around Baerlon and maybe the governor and some rich merchants may have a estate around there, but thats still a week away from the 2R , and they have a different accent from the 2R.

 

 

Have you the quote for Tam fighting in the whitecloak war. That would place him 60ish, i didnt think he was that old. According to nynaeve he left as a young man. We know he returned after the Aiel war, that would mean he spent ovet 20 years outside.

 

The suggestion i made about Tam meeting Morgase was tongue in cheek, still its not beyound the realms, for him not telling Perrin this is Randland after all were no one tells anyone anything.

 

I still think it more likely that she met a 2R native, than visiting the 2R. I cant think why the heir to a powerfull house would travel hundreds of miles to visit a estate at the arse end of nowhere when she has the whole of Andor to choose from.

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Tam fighting in the Whitecloak War; got that from the Encyclopaedia site.

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/t/tam.html

 

It seems doubtful to me that Morgase would have been as certain as she was if she heard Two Rivers speech from just 1 person.

Her certainty seems to indicate a visit to Two Rivers.

There might be some chance that she wandered to the Two Rivers area.  Or perhaps her parents allowed her to accompany a merchant or peddler to Two Rivers during one trip.

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@mb

 

It seems doubtful to me that Morgase would have been as certain as she was if she heard Two Rivers speech from just 1 person.

Her certainty seems to indicate a visit to Two Rivers.

There might be some chance that she wandered to the Two Rivers area. Or perhaps her parents allowed her to accompany a merchant or peddler to Two Rivers during one trip.

 

If morgase had spoken first before Rand said where he was from, i would agree with you. But she said she reconized 2R speach only after Rand had said where he was from. That could of jogged her memory that, she had met someone from there ( or maybe a group traveling together ) and thought Rand sounded simlar to that person(s).

I can see where you coming from, but perhaps we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Edited by damandred

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Tam fought in the Whitecloak War, because the Captain of the Illian Elite Guard recognizes Rand 's accent and remembers Tam leaving with an infant after the Aiel War. He probably fought in the Whitecloak War as just a soldier. The Commander also indicated that by the Aiel War, Tam was comanding them.

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Also i can not remember clearly but some of the nobles in some city resembled young Rand to some noble man in another city. Which brings the idea of Rand is from a noble blood.wait a minute! This talk was not about Rand's past...

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Another important point that is mostly skipped; o heron marked sword is not something you can buy from the market, especially if you are just a willager, you cant even acquire one if you are a noble though.... Any idea?

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Kari al'Thor was just an outlander woman Tam al'Thor met and fell in love with. She died of illness when Rand was very young. That's all there is to it. She doesn't need to be anything more.

 

The Father of Lies is aptly named. Rand's encounters with Baalzamon happened in Tel'aran'rhiod, where reality is malleable, and things, even people-like things, could be created and manipulated.

 

Until only recently, the Dark One had no idea who and where the Dragon Reborn was, nevermind who his adopted mother was. Kari al'Thor was dead some 15 years before Padan Fain was taken to Shayol Ghul and "distilled". Unless he was truly the Lord of the Grave, with control over every single dead soul, an unlikely feat for even the real Shaitan, Baalzamon would not have had access to the soul of a woman dead 15 years. Unless she was a devoted Darkfriend, an even more unlikely proposition.

 

The simplest explanation is that the Kari al'Thor Rand met was just an illusion, a fragment of a dream first given flesh by Baalzamon, and when Rand severed the latter's power, the illusion was picked up by Rand's own mind, as dream fragments are wont to do in the World of Dreams. Rand believed that he had saved his mother, therefore the dream figure thanked him for saving her.

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I agree with solarz. That's all there is to it. Not everyone needs the extremely interesting backstory.

 

His birth mother is a different story - the "lost princess" turned Aiel. 

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The companion pretty much confirms Kari was just a normal lady.

 

As for Tam, born 940, left the Two Rivers in 956, returned to the Two Rivers 978.

Edited by Sabio

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tam not taim(robert jordan's taimandred retcon was bad enough,

no need to add tam to this guy's resume lol)

 

so tam al'thor is 57 years old in the beginning of our story.

 

welcome back sabio.

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On ‎2014‎-‎02‎-‎14 at 6:48 PM, mb said:

Tam fighting in the Whitecloak War; got that from the Encyclopaedia site.

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/t/tam.html

 

It seems doubtful to me that Morgase would have been as certain as she was if she heard Two Rivers speech from just 1 person.

Her certainty seems to indicate a visit to Two Rivers.

There might be some chance that she wandered to the Two Rivers area.  Or perhaps her parents allowed her to accompany a merchant or peddler to Two Rivers during one trip.

I distinctly recall reading Jordan responding to the question about whether Tam had served in the Whitecloak War as being something along the lines of "I guess, probably. I don't have notes for things that aren't relevant to the book." 

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