What was the Shimmering in KoDreams????

[DocBean]

I think it was Knife of Dreams when people kept experiencing a shimmer where their bodies seemed to pull apart and everything vibrated. I know it happend to Perrin and Company, and I think it happened to others.

 

What was that?

 

I have two theories, and would like to see more.

 

Theory one:

The Chodan Kal were streatched too far. Even Lanfear seemed shocked that the Keys were holding up for so long. We've seen this before with the Bowl of the Winds, and RJ confirmed the Bowl was never made to be used at that magnitude. The result then was the power was tricky to work with especially in the Ebu Dar area, I don't remember exact quotes, but I think weaves slippery somehow, then snapped into place. Could the shimmer be a result of the Chodan Kal?

 

Theory two:

It was the Dark One breaking out of his prison.

I don't buy this one but thought I'd put it in. I think Rand will break all the Seals before the DO can get free. Not really sure if he will ever get free.

 

 

 

So, what do we know of the Shimmering? What dirrection was it heading from and too? What resulted from it? Why did it happen?

[Guest cwestervelt]

I've always atributed it to an indication that the Pattern is starting to unravel from too much balefire usage.

[Albert]

The Bowl of Winds was a ter'angreal which was made to affect the weather in a small area. When it was used to affect the entire world, it got overloaded. But an angreal is not the same as an ter'angreal. It has a buffer for drawing too much so you can't overuse it.

 

Your second theory however, is correct. It was a result from the Dark One starting to break free. Think it was RAW that said the DO 'flexed his muscles' or something similar. I'm not sure wether or not it happened just where Perrin/Faile was, but nothing really happened apart from them getting scared.

[DocBean]

The Bowl of Winds was a ter'angreal which was made to affect the weather in a small area. When it was used to affect the entire world' date=' it got overloaded. But an [i']angreal[/i] is not the same as an ter'angreal. It has a buffer for drawing too much so you can't overuse it.

 

Your second theory however, is correct. It was a result from the Dark One starting to break free. Think it was RAW that said the DO 'flexed his muscles' or something similar. I'm not sure wether or not it happened just where Perrin/Faile was, but nothing really happened apart from them getting scared.

 

I always thought the buffer was to keep the channeler from pulling more than they can handle. But you might be right.

 

I agree that the shimmer could be from the DO flexing and pushing on the weakened seal. However, actually breaking free would definitely speed up the last book.

 

I think the shimmer happened in two or three different areas, with a few separate groups noticing it, at the time I was going to reread and try to map it to see if there was a direction it was heading (we could then speculate at where it started) but I never did.

[Cybertrolloc]

It happened two or three times total, to all in Malden (Faile + Shaido) and to Perrin's group nearby. I don't think anything similar happened to the other Taveran, but I'm not really sure where the timelines stand currently (though the taveran sense thing makes it seem things are mostly in synch).

 

Bubbles of evil have been getting worse through the series and the disappearing/reappearing parts of buildings certainly qualifies as something weird going on, but the whatevers seem worse to me.

 

I don't think DO breaking free (or seals breaking--why in Malden and not Mat a few hundred miles south or Rand east or Caemlyn to the north) or CK use (neither CK or Shadar Logoth nearby and why a significantly delayed effect--at least 20 days, see Perrin's day since Faile taken record).

 

cwestervelt, textual evidence please ;)

[The Outsider]

I figured it was just another one of those things like the ghosts and the bubbles of evil, and the weevils and food spoilage, and the corridors in buidlings rearanging themselves that are just effects of the seals weakening and the DO getting closer to the world. It could be revealed to be something else though...

[Myyrth]

It was directly attributed towards the weakening of the pattern as the Great Lords prison began weaking numerous times in the book.

 

Since the Great Lords prison is not really located anywhere in a geographical sense the weakening does in fact affect the entire world. Thus cities from ages before or perhaps alternate worlds will appear than disspear, the dead will walk the world and all those other things.

[SinisterDeath]

It was directly attributed towards the weakening of the pattern as the Great Lords prison began weaking numerous times in the book.

 

Since the Great Lords prison is not really located anywhere in a geographical sense the weakening does in fact affect the entire world. Thus cities from ages before or perhaps alternate worlds will appear than disspear, the dead will walk the world and all those other things.

 

That is very true Myyrth, I wouldn't be suprised if RJ is well versed in String Theory either.

[Myyrth]

lawl... was that meant to be insulting? It came off kind of sarcastic or perhaps patronizing. *shrug*

 

I wasn't actually thinkin about String Theory until you mentioned it, now that you say it I would agree it does sound that way.

[grump]

The one time we know what is happening is when Perrin is turning over the banner and giving up the right to refound Manerhiem. Each of the three taveren is reforming the the pattern by their choices

I think you can time another shimmer to about the time Rand loses his hand Certain conditions have to be exact for TG to happen It will happen again when Mat loses his eye. Its like the click you get on every number on a combination lock until it is free to open

[SinisterDeath]

lawl... was that meant to be insulting? It came off kind of sarcastic or perhaps patronizing. *shrug*

If your reffering to me, no. But rarely do I agree with someone to such a point I can't think of anything else to say in a post other then.. 'yea, your right'. :P

 

I wasn't actually thinkin about String Theory until you mentioned it, now that you say it I would agree it does sound that way.

 

I was watching Startrek: Voyager last night, they were 'testing' a new warpdrive that could pass warp 10... which allowed them to instantaniously move to any point in the universe, to any point in time. And they could see the past, present, and future all at the same time.. Needlessly to say, science fiction + string theory made it all the more imaginable.

 

Now take String theory, combine the DO with the pattern, the Wheel of time, threads ect. and it all sorta strikes a chord with string theory. Not necissarilly Spot on, but close enough you can draw parallels.. Just look at the portal worlds, If I'm not Mistaken M theory *which combined with like 30 other theories, including string theory* I believe has a refrence to 'parallel' universes, or rather its possible to 'create' a new universe, that would occupy the same space as ours, for only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a nano second, then would occupy its own space...

 

But then, the only thing that made those theories understandable was the Science Channels explanation of it, which as you know for all tv shows explaining theories, always over simpilize things.

[rd2000]

Hasn't string theory evolved into membrane theory?

[RobertAlexWillis]

It was the Dark One breaking out of his prison.

 

Thats the one I buy. The Dark One is flexing his interdimensional muscles, and its affecting both time and space (the dead returning and the "fabric" of the Pattern rippling).

[icspots]

I always took the ripples to be a result of more seals on the DO's prison breaking because he was flexing his "muscles". On the other hand thinking about I believe that would kind of throw off the seal count.

 

Seal 1- Eye of the World, broken

Seal 2- Turak's, broken

Seal 3- Domon's, broken

Seal 4- Stone of Tear, intact, hidden by Rand

Seal 5- Rhuidean, intact, hidden by Rand

Seal 6- Taim's, intact, hidden by Rand

Seal 7- Panarch's Palace in Tanchico, broken

 

Okay, I suppose that idea doesn't work if you actually count, since if each ripple was a seal breaking then the DO would be free. Oh well. :(

[Thor]

It's either the DO breaking free, or Demandred balefiring things, or a combination of both.

[rd2000]

I think the ripples had to be something new, or at least, was not any of the seals breaking. Four seals have already been broken and we have not seen anyone experience the rippling when the previous seals were broken.

[DocBean]

So here's what we have.

 

Buildings are changing, even Elayne can't find her way around her own castle.

Ghosts are walking Randland.

Saidar isn't working to keep infestation out of the Tower.

 

With the shimmering

People bodies are failing - isn't that a quote from a prophecy?

in that they seem to pull apart and reform.

 

We haven't seen much sickness, which was another prophecy I think.

 

Obviously they are all signs that the DO is starting to get loose.

So what is really happening? My theory is that the fabric of Randland is the only thing that the Dark One can get his hands on right now. He plans to destroy the wheel completely, but can't get to it yet.

 

picture a bed sheet or any other fabric - if you stretch and pull it, the fine threads come apart and you get holes, holes things can pass thru (the ghosts from the past), and the fabric starts to take on new forms, not straight and inline, but stretched and torn the fabric isn't inline anymore so things aren't where the used to be (like the Tower, and Elayne's Castle). So that's why all these things are happening, the same reason Darkfriends and the ProLight side agreed not to use balefire in the AoL, if you make too much of a mess of the fabric, you don't know what will be affected.

 

My theory is the DO has a hand on the fabric and is doing as much damage as possible, Rand will have to release him and create a new Bore to seal him away so he doesn't do too much damage, and doesn't have a chance to get to the wheel.

[Anajon]

I think it is definitely the DO braking free at least partly - it is just to much in line with the description of what people saw/felt when it happened the last time, seen by Rand in Rhuidean,TSR 26.

[isleofjib]

The Bowl of Winds was a ter'angreal which was made to affect the weather in a small area. When it was used to affect the entire world' date=' it got overloaded. But an [i']angreal[/i] is not the same as an ter'angreal. It has a buffer for drawing too much so you can't overuse it.

 

the CK ARE ter'angreal that allow access to the sa'angreal statues.

 

i still think it's the DO breaking free since it is mentioned in the books as such, tho by people who are just guessing. it makes sense.

 

i wanna reread the part that anajon references. if it happened in the AoL as the DO was breaking free, then it should be pretty conclusive it's the cause this time, too.

[isleofjib]

sorry, double post.

[icspots]

the CK ARE ter'angreal that allow access to the sa'angreal statues.

 

The Choedan Kal are the sa'angreal statues themselves. The ter'angreals used to access them are simply referred to as the 'access keys'.

 

Winter's Heart: Chapter 35' date='[/b'] "With the Choedan Kal"

 

Rand says he will cleanse Saidin, and Cadsuane's asks if he intends to use Callandor to do it.

 

'"With the Choedan Kal," he replied. That name was another gift from Lews Therin, resting in Rand's head as if it had always been there. "You know them as immense statues, sa'angreal, one buried in Cairhien, the other on Tremalking." Harine's head jerked, making the golden medallions on her nose chain click together, at mention of the Sea Folk island. "Thery're too big to be moved with any ease, but I have a pair on ter'angreal called access keys. Using those, the Choedan Kal can be tapped from anwhere in the world."'

 

i wanna reread the part that anajon references. if it happened in the AoL as the DO was breaking free' date=' then it should be pretty conclusive it's the cause this time, too.[/quote']

 

The Shadow Rising: Chapter 26, "The Dedicated"

 

'The man opened his mouth to protest--citizens always did; they seemed to think Aiel were made of spinglass--but before he could speak, the ground rippled under their feet. The air rippled, too, in spreading waves. The man looked about uncertainly, pulling his stylish fancloth cloak around himself and his lady so their heads seemed to float disembodied. "What is it, Da'shain?"'

 

Now in comparison to the KoD quote

 

Knife of Dreams: Chapter 5, "Something . . . Strange"

 

The Wise One Meira is questioning Faile about what she saw in Sevanna's tent

 

'She had just reached Therava's arrival with Galina when everything in front of her eyes rippled. She rippled! It was not imaginiation. Meira's blue eyes widened as far as they could go; she had felt it, too. Again everything rippled, including herself, harder than before. In shock, Faile stood up straight and let go of her robe. A third time the world rippled, harder still, and as it passed through her, she felt as if she might blow away in a breeze, or simply dissipate in a mist.

 

Breathing hard, she waited for the fourth ripple, the one she knew would destroy her and everything else. When it did not come, she expelled every bit of air in her lungs from relief. "What just happened Wise One? What was that?"'

[Anajon]

Seal 1- Eye of the World, broken

Seal 2- Turak's, broken

Seal 3- Domon's, broken

Seal 4- Stone of Tear, intact, hidden by Rand

Seal 5- Rhuidean, intact, hidden by Rand

Seal 6- Taim's, intact, hidden by Rand

Seal 7- Panarch's Palace in Tanchico, broken

Okay, I suppose that idea doesn't work if you actually count, since if each ripple was a seal breaking then the DO would be free. Oh well. :(

 

thanks for digging out that quote from the AL - I don't have my books here at the moment so couldn't do it myself.

 

So if we look at that and your list above - I can only agree the dark one is free! (I do want some more evidence so)

 

Need to check on the time line – how much time we still had on scene after the ripples in KoD. If he is free I guess it should make an impact right away :-?

[Anajon]

Aine 24th or April the 8th when the ripples appear – according to the WOT time line all theses things still happen AFTER the ripples.

- Rand meeting Semirhage

- Mat attacking the Seanchan camps

- The fight at Malden freeing Fail – ok we all are clear on the sequence of events here (10th of April)

- About a week of nothing?

- Elayne attacking the black sisters being captured and freed and taking Caemlyn (19th of April)

- Karede reaching Mat and Tuon – Tuon saying the magic words  one of my favored moments, ambushing the Seachan traitors, Mat being named prince of Ravens.

- Epilog is set on the 27th of April with a ? Tuon in Ebou Dar and Pevara at the Black Tower.

 

So the if this is correct the book continues another 19 – 20 days after the ripples, could the dark one be bitting his time – hmm if he is free I would expect more horrible things to happen but all in all these 20 days go rather well for everyone.

 

So …. I don’t know --- either the time line is wrong or the dark one has less “darkness” then I always assumed or the ripples are something else and the seals are not broken.

 

got the time line from: http://www.users.bigpond.com/steven_cooper/tl1000.htm#book11

[icspots]

Well even if each of those ripples was a seal breaking then that doesn't mean the DO is free. He's still in his prison, however he'll have the entirety of the bore to reach through rather than just the gaps through the seal.

 

Remember, from the time Mierin drilled the bore until it was sealed by Lews Therin and the Companions the bore was open allowing the DO to touch the world. The time period between the drilling of the bore, and of LTT sealing it up was around 100 years. I think we all expect Tarmon Gai'don to happen well before then. ;)

[Magicana]

Well even if each of those ripples was a seal breaking then that doesn't mean the DO is free. He's still in his prison' date=' however he'll have the entirety of the bore to reach through rather than just the gaps through the seal.

 

Remember, from the time Mierin drilled the bore until it was sealed by Lews Therin and the Companions the bore was open allowing the DO to touch the world. The time period between the drilling of the bore, and of LTT sealing it up was around 100 years. I think we all expect Tarmon Gai'don to happen well before then. ;)[/quote']

 

More than 100 years from memory. One hundred years before the war began I think, then however long it went on for.