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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
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This Is What Did it For Me

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I am part of the way through TOM, and I am giving up.  I cannot read Sanderson any more.  This was the last straw:

 

<<<Gawyn joined him.  Sleete threw the deadbolt a few times in its lock.  "This door might have been forced," he said softly.  "See the scrape here on the deadbolt?  You can pop open this kind of lock by sliding a thin pick in and pushing it on the deadbolt, then putting pressure on the handle.  It can be done very quietly.">>>

 

Forget the needless drama.  Forget the use of "deadbolt" and "pop open" ... I think we can all acknowledge that Sanderson's language leaves a lot to be desired.  What set me off here was the reminder that as a writer, Sanderson specializes in this kind of nerdy [removed] detail that makes me want to climb up the walls.  Mistborn is full of stuff like this - others might be able to abide it, I'm done.  I'm going to switch to Leigh Dickinson's re-read so I get the story (I'm OCD that way), and if there's anything particularly interesting in the story, I'll switch to the book and read those chapters.

 

I guess I am just surprised that he got picked to finish the series.  

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
language/behaviour

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If you do stick with it, though, you'll get the rest of the story. I know, I'm almost allergic myself to that kind of stuff.

 

What is is that there's Robert Jordan's notes lying here and there, well mostly everywhere. Sanderson had a really tough job to do, he is not the old man with experience that RJ was. But I think a writer as him was chosen because invariably an older writer would unintentionally imprint his own thoughts on the story, we are saved from that; less skillfully done, but we can now consider the work all Robert Jordan.

Edited by Graendals favourite

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I'm sorry you feel that way. I needed an ending even though I didn't like the last book at all but I love RJ's world and was happy his wife even allowed someone else to finish the story.

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But I think a writer as him was chosen because invariably an older writer would unintentionally imprint his own thoughts on the story, we are saved from that; less skillfully done, but we can now consider the work all Robert Jordan.

Actually it's the exact opposite. The notes were not all that robust and they needed someone who would have creative control else they could have just used a ghost writer. Sanderson came up with over 50% of the material with zero guidance from the notes. The story in parts is likely far different than the one RJ had in mind.

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Well then it's like Mozart's Requiem, we must trust to the Pattern.

 

Oh this work, the Requiem is too long to link, when first thinking  about it I had some consternation, he had completed to first to parts, and most of the Sequentia, and the Ahmen part of Lacrimosa was found only later. On the Offerterium he had only that bass written down, no doubt he had it thought out in his brain, but no time to write all the rest down. Part of the Sanctus he had too, but Benedictus and Agnus Dei Süssmeier had to compose all himself. No wonder that on the last Communio, previous work was recycled, from the the beginning, no one can possibly match Mozart so better no try.

 

Well here it is:

 

The later part is not mostly Mozart, clearly,  but it does not devalue the work either, it makes the piece complete.

Edited by Graendals favourite

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A good chunk of people riff on Brandon for his writing style and how he 'ruined' the series. I don't think he ruined the series. Harriet and the rest of the staff picked the writer they felt was best for the story. Brandon's writing to me is good. He is distinct from RJ and had an unenviable task. Finish a book series beloved by millions of readers with many theories out there what was to happen in the last book. Oh, and it is also one of your favorite series. I did not envy Brandon but I was glad he was willing to do the job. He gave us closure and an ending to the WoT. His books were readable to me, with their own charm, even if the characters were different then how RJ wrote them.

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To be honest, and many have said it, we should be grateful we actually got resolution. Because RJ had said he would destroy everything. Leaving us without an end. Sure, the final three aren't the same. But they are an ending. Which is what we all wanted. For that I am eternally grateful.

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My main issue with Sanderson's writing is what he did to Mat. He took a cunning and humorous character and turned him into a walking joke. Mat's odd moments of foolishness became a massive character flaw - take, for example, the freaking "infiltrating the inn" scene where Mat presents scripts and full character profiles to his followers for when they "go undercover". It was so moronic and not at all like Mat. Mat was one of my favorite characters, and I really didn't appreciate seeing this done to him...

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...

 

I am not so caught up in the series that the way he changed the characters bothers me much, other than Mat.  But even with Mat, enough has been said about the way he absolutely slaughtered that character that I was prepared for it before I started TGS.  

 

What makes the books unreadable for me is the fact that he is a bad writer.  There is no other word for it. When your language is full of current American colloquialisms, and you appear to make no effort to make it more neutral, the only conclusion one can draw is that you're either lazy or writing well is beyond your skills.  I suspect the latter since his other books are no different.  And then there is nerdiness. [Removed}

 

All in all, not worth my time.  An additional consequence is that I am done with Sanderson as a writer, in general. [Removed]

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
abusive behaviour

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To be honest, and many have said it, we should be grateful we actually got resolution. Because RJ had said he would destroy everything. Leaving us without an end.

 

No he didn't. RJ was very uncomfortable with anyone else writing in his world, nevertheless it was him that changed his mind at the very end. We got the story because he allowed it to be finished.

Interview: Jul 28th, 2008  Brandon Sanderson

 

I've found a lot of his answers very interesting. Among the more tragic are the ones that came when people asked him what would happen to his series if he died before it was finished. It kind of twists my heart a little bit each time I read a question like that, knowing what eventually happened.

 

In response to most of these situations, Mr. Jordan was joking and whimsical. Common responses were along the lines of "You'd better hope that doesn't happen, otherwise you'll never get to see that last ending I've been planning all these years!" He often indicated that he'd leave instructions to have all of his notes burned and his disc drives wiped, then reformatted six or seven times so that nobody would ever know how the story came out.

 

Humorous tone set aside, I see something in these responses. Inside, I think the concept of anyone else working on the Wheel of Time was very painful for Mr. Jordan. I really think that early on, he was against the idea of anyone else finishing the last book, should he die.

However, Harriet has talked to me of the last days before his death, and I also have transcripts of the final dictations he made. Transcripts that talk about what should happen, how people should end up, and how the ending should be written. The tone of these writings and of what Harriet talked about is very different from his earlier comments. It's humbling to see how he changed, instead becoming determined—insistent, even—that the last book be finished after he passed away. Harriet mentioned to me that he didn't want to select someone himself. That thought was too hard for him. I can understand why.

In the end, I see this as his last gift to all of us. As an artist, I can completely understand why he wouldn't want someone else to work on his world and his books. And if he had actually decided to leave instructions for the final book not to be completed, I am sure—very sure—that Harriet would have seen to it that his will was followed. But that wasn't what he decided. He demanded that this book be written. Even though I know that the idea brought him pain.

This was his final sacrifice and gift for you all—the decision to give us the last scenes and instructions for the book, rather than taking that knowledge to the grave with him. From what I've heard of the last months of his life, I know that he spent a surprising amount of time giving dictations, telling about places that nobody else knew existed, and explaining how the characters were to end up.

 

As or resolution, many at this point say they would have been happy with the notes published in an encyclopedia. I don't fall into that camp but at the same time post TGS the quality of this series fell off a cliff.

 

 Regardless of that, though, the notes dictated what Mat did.

 

As I stated above the notes were not nearly as robust as you seem to think and they often looked like this...

 

The thing about the notes is that a lot of the notes were to him, and so he would say things like “I’m going to do this or this” and they’re polar opposites. And so there are sequences like that, where I decide what we’re going to do, and stuff like that.

 

 

I never wanted...never changed that ending and I never have, but there are things along the way, particularly when he would say, I'm thinking of doing this, or maybe this other thing that's opposite, and sometimes I'll choose between one of those two, and sometimes it's neither one and it has to be a third thing.

 

Edited by Suttree

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I think, though not a scientifically valid thought, and I am a phycisist myself, we must trust to the pattern. Though the work you are doing, whether this or that is trustworthy, is valuable.

Edited by Graendals favourite

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Mat's a tricky one. 

 

I'm not a fan of the way he was written in the latter books, and that includes the confirmed RJ bits (although it's possible/likely that BS edited bits of RJs writing to fit it in with the story) 

 

 


Mat stepped back and tipped his hat to the creatures. "Looks like the game can be won after all," he said. "Tell the foxes I'm mighty pleased with this key they gave me. Also, you can all go rot in a flaming pit of fire and ashes, you unwashed lumps on a pig's backside. Have a grand bloody day."

 

 

To me this sort of grandstanding doesn't really fit with Mats character prior to GS, but does fit in with how BS was writing the character. 

 

On the other hand I did like Perrin and Mats reunion, badger and all, although that's possibly because it came from Perrins pov and BS wrote that well.

 

aMoL spoiler

 

 

 

I also liked Mat and Tuons reunion in the Epilogue of MoL, this seemed truest to both Mat and Tuon throughout all three final books

 

 

Edited by BFG

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I am just curious how did you even make to Book 13 if you hate "nerdy [removed]" so much?

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
quoted passage removed

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CB, as for Mozart and 35, well he pretty much started his musical career at 5. He didn't have the chance of a proper childhood as we think it. In any regard, anything by him he did past 20 is considered a mature work. By 35 he was, with his ability musically as sage as anyone at least 65.

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I am just curious how did you even make to Book 13 if you hate "nerdy, <removed>" so much?

 

If you're talking about RJ, then yes, he has a lot of detail, many times too much so, but hard to call him nerdy ... at least I never found him so.  If you were asking how I got through TGS ...well, I struggled through it, growing increasingly irritated until I could take it no more.

Edited by BFG
quoted post was edited previously

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There's a few points in the two books left that I would encourage you to read them nevertheless. I'm obviously not going to spoil you on what they are. You'll get to them, if you suffer the rest, as I recall, Sanderson got better in the second book,

Edited by Graendals favourite

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To be honest, and many have said it, we should be grateful we actually got resolution. Because RJ had said he would destroy everything. Leaving us without an end. Sure, the final three aren't the same. But they are an ending. Which is what we all wanted. For that I am eternally grateful.

Given the choice between nothing and something bad, nothing has its merits. A lack of an ending would have been disappointing, but then the ending we got was disappointing as well. One way leave sit open for us to imagine what comes next, the other tells us what happens and leaves us feeling that we wish we didn't know. Yes, we got closure. That alone does not excuse all failings. If you are going to do something, do it well. Also, learn from the bloody mistake made in CoT: RJ produced the book rather than go back and rewrite from scratch, which is what he felt was needed to fully sort out the problems, and it resulted in the most widely loathed book in the series. So Sanderson comes in and does a rush job, putting books out to appease fans eager for the next taste of WoT rather than taking the time to fully sort out the problems. The result is a decidedly mixed reaction, with those who are happy just to get an ending being pleased, and those who are willing to think critically being underwhelmed.

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as I recall, Sanderson got better in the second book,

Unfortunately TGS is widely regarded as his best work in the wheel. ToM had some decent sections but overall it was a huge mess. Mistakes, timeline issues and unpolished prose make it very tough to get through.

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I'd been reading the skewardness as sign of the last battle, how messed up things where. Like that Dragon avatar in the beginnings of each chapter started to get misaligned in accord with Rand's madness. So the story is mixed up, as the world was crumbling. And artistic expression of chaos. The whole world was torn apart, and how we could read it could not be an exception.

Edited by Graendals favourite

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I am part of the way through TOM, and I am giving up.  I cannot read Sanderson any more.  This was the last straw:

 

<<<Gawyn joined him.  Sleete threw the deadbolt a few times in its lock.  "This door might have been forced," he said softly.  "See the scrape here on the deadbolt?  You can pop open this kind of lock by sliding a thin pick in and pushing it on the deadbolt, then putting pressure on the handle.  It can be done very quietly.">>>

 

Forget the needless drama.  Forget the use of "deadbolt" and "pop open" ... I think we can all acknowledge that Sanderson's language leaves a lot to be desired.  What set me off here was the reminder that as a writer, Sanderson specializes in this kind of nerdy, piddly-ass detail that makes me want to climb up the walls.  Mistborn is full of stuff like this - others might be able to abide it, I'm done.  I'm going to switch to Leigh Dickinson's re-read so I get the story (I'm OCD that way), and if there's anything particularly interesting in the story, I'll switch to the book and read those chapters.

 

I guess I am just surprised that he got picked to finish the series.  

 

Read the summaries on wiki, you will lose nothing.

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I also think tweaking it this way or that for years would hardly make a difference. We'd get something more polished, lacking the interpretation I had I mention, but James Rigney would still have been gone. We got it raw, and that was good.

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