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szilard

Heaven?

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Mr. Jordan frequently uses the word: heaven(s). As far as I remember he stated that there is no religion at all (needed a quote) in the world of WoT (right now). But when I talk to others and I say 'heaven' everybody refers to God.

 

 

 

heav·en (hvn)

n.

1. The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament. Often used in the plural.

2. Christianity

a. often Heaven The abode of God, the angels, and the souls of those who are granted salvation.

b. An eternal state of communion with God; everlasting bliss.

3. Any of the places in or beyond the sky conceived of as domains of divine beings in various religions.

4.

a. Heaven God: Heaven help you!

b. heavens Used in various phrases to express surprise: Good heavens!

5. The celestial powers; the gods. Often used in the plural: The heavens favored the young prince.

6. A condition or place of great happiness, delight, or pleasure: The lake was heaven.

Edited by szilard

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Not sure what you are referring to but in the books there is the "Creator" and people believe in reincarnation.

Edited by Ryrin

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The quote on religion.

Interview: Apr, 2003
Budapest Q&A (Verbatim)
Rhynn
Are there any religions in the world of the Wheel of Time?
Robert Jordan
No. No religions, no churches: that will change in the next set of books, not in this, but where religion becomes in some ways preeminent, but...
Mort
[interrupts] Oh, is that a spoiler?? No, no!
Robert Jordan
No, that's not for the Wheel of Time at all, and may change somewhat, as these things do. But the reason is this: I've always believed that our religious rituals our attendance at temples, or churches, or whatever is, in part, a reaffirmation of our faith, and a reaffirmation of our belief, a strengthening of our belief in something that we cannot see. And we do these things in order to strengthen our belief in what we cannot see. God, Allah, whatever...but, in this world, it is a world that...as if we had...prophets walking around...performing miracles. The One Power can be channeled. Occasionally men show up channeling the One Power; the Aes Sedai have been there for 3000 years.
Question
But the Creator does not interfere!
Robert Jordan
The Creator does not interfere, but there is clear evidence of the theological doctrine.
Question
Of the unseen.
Robert Jordan
Of the unseen. As far as it is believed, of the existence of the Creator: Here is the One Power. Here is evidence of everything we believe. There is therefore no need for anyone to undergo rituals to reaffirm or strengthen their belief because it is manifest every day. If we really had prophets walking among us, performing miracles and healing people and raising the dead—and this was a matter of every day that somebody might walk down the street and say 'In the name of...' and lay their hand on you. 'In the name of God be healed,' and your wounds are healed. Or, 'In the name of God rise up and walk,' and your dead brother, just died of cholera or whatever rises up and walks—I believe that organized religion would vanish within a generation, or at least become a fringe within a generation, because there would no longer be a need for most people to reaffirm their belief in God, or to strengthen their belief in God, or Allah, or whatever else their religious belief is. It would be manifest in every day life.
Wood Sun
And how about the Whitecloaks? I mean they look like some sort of religious sect.
Robert Jordan
Which?
Question
(two girls in unison) The Whitecloaks!
Robert Jordan
The Whitecloaks? Well, they're meant to look as a religious sect. They began as, an ascetic organization dedicated to preaching against Darkfriends, trying to convince people by example that they should not become Darkfriends. And during the War of the Hundred Years they became a military organization. They are patterned on the Teutonic Knights, a touch of the German SS, and...
Wood Sun
[interrupts] And the Spanish Inquisition?
Robert Jordan
A touch of the Spanish Inquisition. (laughter) They are in short anyone who believes that they know the Truth—the Truth with a capital T. They know the Truth so well, and its so clear to them that if you don't believe that truth, then it becomes obvious that you are evil.

 

Edited by Suttree

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I find it interesting that there is no formal theology in the series. Why is this?

 

This is a world where what might be called the proofs of religion are self-evident all the time. It seemed to me there was no necessity for the trappings of religion, which by and large are to reinforce us in our faith and to convince others. If your beliefs are made concrete and manifest around you at any given time there is not the need for that.

  • The lack of organized religion he explained with the fact that "Religion has been proven". Shai'tan, the Forsaken, the One Power are known and proven to exist, so there is no need for the big persuasion machines of "real" religion.

 

 

Really?

 

In answer to the first question, yes, there is an ordinary afterlife

 

 

What is the Creator? Is he a god? Or is he a just a "creator"? (Gods have worshippers. He has not any worshippers at all, so what does that mean?)

 

Duality is very important in the world of WoT. But the Creator is a male and the DO is  male too. Why? (Or is it possible that the DO is a female who stands behind a curtain - a la Oz? Ok, Oz is not a female :rolleyes:)

 

I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator carrying on the theme, the yin yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books...it's somewhat Manichean, I know, but I think it works.

 

 

  • Is the Dark One the only source of the True Power?

     

    Yes, the Dark One is the only source of the True Power.

  • Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In Prologue to The Eye of the World we saw True Power to heal insanity. The One Power cannot be used to heal insanity. The True Power used at Shayol Ghul will fry you instantly.
    • Can you clarify who can tell when one is using the True Power?

       

      No one can tell if you're using the True Power, except the Dark One, of course.

 

 

The DO's power then bigger than the Creator's?

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I find it interesting that there is no formal theology in the series. Why is this?

 

This is a world where what might be called the proofs of religion are self-evident all the time. It seemed to me there was no necessity for the trappings of religion, which by and large are to reinforce us in our faith and to convince others. If your beliefs are made concrete and manifest around you at any given time there is not the need for that.

  • The lack of organized religion he explained with the fact that "Religion has been proven". Shai'tan, the Forsaken, the One Power are known and proven to exist, so there is no need for the big persuasion machines of "real" religion.

 

 

Really?

 

In answer to the first question, yes, there is an ordinary afterlife

 

 

What is the Creator? Is he a god? Or is he a just a "creator"? (Gods have worshippers. He has not any worshippers at all, so what does that mean?)

 

Duality is very important in the world of WoT. But the Creator is a male and the DO is  male too. Why? (Or is it possible that the DO is a female who stands behind a curtain - a la Oz? Ok, Oz is not a female :rolleyes:)

 

I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator carrying on the theme, the yin yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books...it's somewhat Manichean, I know, but I think it works.

 

 

  • Is the Dark One the only source of the True Power?

     

    Yes, the Dark One is the only source of the True Power.

  •  
  •  
  • Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In Prologue to The Eye of the World we saw True Power to heal insanity. The One Power cannot be used to heal insanity. The True Power used at Shayol Ghul will fry you instantly.
    • Can you clarify who can tell when one is using the True Power?

       

      No one can tell if you're using the True Power, except the Dark One, of course.

 

 

The DO's power then bigger than the Creator's?

 

Not bigger, just different. 

They manifest in different ways. OP is a duality, of both calm and chaos working to/against each other - that is the Source.

The TP is more raw, so it can be used more powerfully.

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The Whitecloaks are the closest thing the Wheel of Time has to organized religion.  This series has a lot of roots in Eastern theologies - reincarnation, etc. - but it never introduces an organized religion.  This is a great change of pace from most epic fantasy stories, and is one of the more unique aspects about this series.

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