Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Sign in to follow this  
Laica Sedai

Egwene - Eldrene

Recommended Posts

I dont know if this has been discussed before, but could it be Egwene is Eldrene reborn? This struck to me when reading EotW again. The similairities between Eldrene and Egwene are enourmous - both died from drawing too much of the One Power when they felt their husband/warder die. Both made sure the shadowspawn did as well before/during their death. She also 'almost' understood the Old Tongue and just knew some things she could do with the One Power (like 'hanging' her lightbulb on the wall). And then there's also their names. 

 

So what's your thought on this? 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea, but I don't think we will ever have a conclusive answer to this.  I have also seen comparisons between Egwene and Latra Posae.  The fact that she just knows how to do some things with the one power isn't that special.  Nynaeve has this ability too - perhaps to an even greater extent as she figured out Balefire without even thinking about it - and if anything is just evidence of the fact that the ability to channel is bound to a soul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While there are parallels - if she were truly Eldrene reborn, and that is her lot to be spun out in the wheel over and over again, then she is really unfortunate: to have to die avenging her husband by over-drawing each life (that assumes that is her repeated "story" in the turning of the wheel)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know we won't ever have a conclusive answer for this, but when I read the story of Manetheren again after finishing book 14, the first thing I thought was "Egwene". 

I just wonder how many of you saw these similarities too :)

 

And @James Tham I hope I'm wrong :( That would be really sad... (Although Rhand saw other lives with Egwene while stuck at the Portal Stone in book 2. But then again, that assumes she is not Eldrene reborn :dry: assuming the lives he saw could come true if he had made other decisions) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My assumption has always been that people can be spun out multiple times.  For Rand to of his incarnations will always be the Dragon and the Dragon Reborn, but that doesn't mean he can't also be spun out every few hundred years and live a quieter life.  This is what happens to the Heroes of the Horn - Birgette can remember multiple lives, some were living quietly, some were living adventures. 

 

I'd assume the same goes for Egwene, even if she is always the female counterpart to the Dragon, that doesn't mean there aren't other lives where she lives normally, additionally given the changes in the ages, next third age she may not die but the dragon could, or neither, or both...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I got the idea of repetition from Birgitte and Gaidal's "story" in their turning of the wheel.

 

Archer & fighter who hates each other at first sight and then fall in love - spun into different variation with that theme - including a quiet life.

 

However, Birgitte did say she almost always hates Gaidal on first sight and almost always reborn with Gaidal - so perhaps you are right - it isn't set in stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well aside from the details changing with each turning we know there are ages when channeling is forgotten. The ability simply hasn't been discovered yet, so that would seem in itself to rule it out.

Edited by Suttree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well aside from the details changing with each turning we know there are ages when channeling is forgotten. The ability simply hasn't been discovered yet, so that would seem in itself to rule it out.

 

 

Why is that?

Is it their ability to channel that makes them who they are, that defines them?

Last I checked the majority of the Heroes of the Horn that we know something about in fact can't channel ie: Birgitte, Gaidal, Hawkwing, Farstrider

 

Even if Egwene couldn't channel, would that change the nature of her strength of character and ability to lead? I think not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Well aside from the details changing with each turning we know there are ages when channeling is forgotten. The ability simply hasn't been discovered yet, so that would seem in itself to rule it out.

 

 

Why is that?

Is it their ability to channel that makes them who they are, that defines them?

Last I checked the majority of the Heroes of the Horn that we know something about in fact can't channel ie: Birgitte, Gaidal, Hawkwing, Farstrider

 

Even if Egwene couldn't channel, would that change the nature of her strength of character and ability to lead? I think not.

 

 

Might not have been clear but I was responding to this:

 

While there are parallels - if she were truly Eldrene reborn, and that is her lot to be spun out in the wheel over and over again, then she is really unfortunate: to have to die avenging her husband by over-drawing each life (that assumes that is her repeated "story" in the turning of the wheel)

Edited by Suttree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are all great points and I think that Egwene is easily one of the most important characters to look at in Jordan's work. I find her story arc intriguing in that her relationship to Rand is romance in the beginning and business-type in the end. Sorta the opposite of Brigitte's with Gaidal. I love to hear anything in relationship to Egwene's relation to the pattern and this is a new idea to me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always seen Egwene to not just have parallels to Latra Posae as Rhienne said above, but be Latra reborn. The Feild of Merrilor argument between Rand and Egwene screamed Latra to me, and the fact that she seemed to recognise the Choedan Kal, like she had seen it before. Considering that Latra was in charge of the team that built the things, it is pretty conclusive to me whom Egwene was before. Not to mention her and Rand arguing pretty much almost always whenever they were together.

 

Eldrenne's story seemed to foreshadow what would happen to Egwene, but only by being put in similar situations, with identical outcomes. Both dying not long after their Warder husbands.

Edited by wotfan4472

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it very clear to me that Edmound field residents are reincranation of Mantheirn.

most obvious is Mat who before the holes in his memory and it filling was speakiing the old tongue and had glimpases of ordering the heart guard.

 

Egwene has a very strong case for beeing Eldrene incarnation , doughter of the village leader, strong channeler , born herself after her lover died (Gawin)...

 

but also does Nyn -> the wysdom of the village (female leader) , epic love story  with actually caring for her beloved MORE then for the WT, uber strong channeler...

 

i guess other Edmond Field char can be good candidate as well (Boad /Merrin...)

 

there hardly any wrong choise here (maybe Daizy Conger ...  :)   ) so it more to personal taste and view

 

personally i lean toward Nyn but i admit it totally due to personal bias , i dislike Egy ( mainly becouse how everyone near her was so DOWNPLAYED just so she can shine) and Nyn is one of my fav character :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Might not have been clear but I was responding to this:

 

While there are parallels - if she were truly Eldrene reborn, and that is her lot to be spun out in the wheel over and over again, then she is really unfortunate: to have to die avenging her husband by over-drawing each life (that assumes that is her repeated "story" in the turning of the wheel)

 

 

Of course, she might just die avenging her husband some other way.

 

Which would still be a lousy life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's one major problem with Egwene being Eldrene reborn, or Mat (or anyone else from Emond's Field) being reincarnations of people from Manetheren.

 

The people who are reborn again and again throughout the turning of the Wheel, living new lives and becoming new people, are very specifically the heroes who have earned that privilege and been permanently bound to the Wheel itself: Birgitte and Gaidal, Rand, Artur Hawkwing, etc.  Meaning if Egwene was anyone reborn, she would have been called back as a Hero of the Horn when Olver blew it, like Birgitte was.  There's no sign or hint of her presence when it's blown.

Edited by Zhon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's one major problem with Egwene being Eldrene reborn, or Mat (or anyone else from Emond's Field) being reincarnations of people from Manetheren.

 

The people who are reborn again and again throughout the turning of the Wheel, living new lives and becoming new people, are very specifically the heroes who have earned that privilege and been permanently bound to the Wheel itself: Birgitte and Gaidal, Rand, Artur Hawkwing, etc.  Meaning if Egwene was anyone reborn, she would have been called back as a Hero of the Horn when Olver blew it, like Birgitte was.  There's no sign or hint of her presence when it's blown.

 

Isn't it mentioned somewhere that you don't have to be a hero of the horn to be reborn? I thought I read somewhere that Mat and Perrin are reborn every now and then though they aren't heroes of the horn. Besides, I thought too that the Dragon isn't a hero of the horn, though he obviously gets reborn every few ages. I may be mistaken though :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone in the WoT is reborn, not just the heroes.

RJ

Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease.

 

Few extra items,  there is a good deal of evidence for Mat being Aemon and per RJ the Dragon is one of the Heroes.

Edited by Suttree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone in the WoT is reborn, not just the heroes.

RJ

Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease.

 

Few extra items,  there is a good deal of evidence for Mat being Aemon and per RJ the Dragon is one of the Heroes.

Very true, and the evidence gets even more compelling with the Tuon-Elderene comparisons being added in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Everyone in the WoT is reborn, not just the heroes.

RJ

Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease.

 

Few extra items,  there is a good deal of evidence for Mat being Aemon and per RJ the Dragon is one of the Heroes.

Very true, and the evidence gets even more compelling with the Tuon-Elderene comparisons being added in.

 

Could you elaborate on that? I haven't noticed much in that sense.

 

Even so: Mat being Aemon reborn and having a fairly similar calling in life seems quite exceptional to me. The Heroes have such, true, but even they tend to end up in different countries and/or with slightly different callings. Mat would be a general, fighting a seemingly hopeless battle against the Shadow, born in Manetheren, with a monarch as spouse; in comparison, Brigitte would be a soldier/hunter/rebel using different weapons, having a relationship with an older ugy man she initially despised. Her place of birth, her station in life, and most of the specifics would all be different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Even so: Mat being Aemon reborn and having a fairly similar calling in life seems quite exceptional to me.

 

Brandon has confirmed that it's one of two things with Mat. He is Aemon reborn or he is part of Aemon's bloodline.

Edited by Suttree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh...another Straight-Forward Answer from Mr Panderson!!!

 

 

Fish

 

 

Edited because...never let it be said that im NOT a Team Player!!! :)

Edited by The Fisher King

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Egwene will go down as one of the worst characters in the book.  Her I know it all, I am super powerful, I know best so listen to me Rand even though I am only like 20 and been amrilyn for like less than a year got annoying fast.  So I hope she isn't Eldrene reborn. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe we have a reason to assume that the reincarnations of people share similar fates. Nor that they show similar characteristics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's one major problem with Egwene being Eldrene reborn, or Mat (or anyone else from Emond's Field) being reincarnations of people from Manetheren.

 

The people who are reborn again and again throughout the turning of the Wheel, living new lives and becoming new people, are very specifically the heroes who have earned that privilege and been permanently bound to the Wheel itself: Birgitte and Gaidal, Rand, Artur Hawkwing, etc.  Meaning if Egwene was anyone reborn, she would have been called back as a Hero of the Horn when Olver blew it, like Birgitte was.  There's no sign or hint of her presence when it's blown.

Actually, there is evidence for Egwene being summoned by the Horn. She just didn't participate in the Battle the same way the others did. She went where she was needed: to Rand at Shayol Ghul. Where she told him that she could be a Hero too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...