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Androl Genhald

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I remember hearing that Robert Jordan was having trouble writing the first book.  He ended up changing rand form a middle aged man to a young man and it all worked out.  

 

As i was reading the Androl part of the story i couldn't help but wonder if the inspiration for him came from the original older version of  rand.  Has anything been said that would confirm or deny my suspicion?

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I think Androl is almost completely BS's creation.  RJ had provided the name and referred to him a couple of times, but BS wanted a character that he could develop on his own, so I would imagine most of Androl's backstory and character have very little to do with RJ.

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Androl was indeed a splendid charcter. He was someone who had real depth. His struggle with being strong in power, being only efficent in a Talent; creating gateways. And how that wouldn't even help him when Taim was turning the Tower. But in the he worked out great, his gateways were indeed a force to be reckoned with in the Last Battle. And his bond with Pevara Sedai that was something unique. He evolved greatly from being a weak nobody in the Tower to being one of their leaders.

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He was quite the condtradiction to the way the Tower ranks and files. While strength of will is important to Aes Sedai, their strength in the power is what governs their interactions unless they are the head of their Ajah/Amrylin. Sitters do have precadence but from what I infered from the books they still deferred to those stronger. Androl was a good example of how the Black Tower was going to do things, quite differently from the White Tower. Strength in power alone didn't mean they were leaders. Leaders are those who do whats best for the group. Androl does everything for what is best for those loyal to Logain, and thus Rand.

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Androl was one of my favorite characters. I liked how he took what everyone thought was a weakness and turned it into one of the best weapons/utilities possible

Androl was quite simply an awesome character added into the last books.  A talent with gateways, creating the massive one that spewed the lava from the heart of Dragonmount in my opinion would have broken the Trolloc lines and sent the entire army at Caemlyn to fleeing.  Tea, honey, water from a mountain stream, gotta love it.  Androl as another made into Androl with the mask of mirrors, lol!

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Definitely a good choice for someone for BS to expand on. All we had heard previously was about some guy that had a somewhat undefined Talent for Travelling. That he apparently didn't need to know a place to Travel from it.

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Androl would be a great character, if he was not in WOT.

why?

Because he feels like a Brandon Sanderson character. Aside from his prominence so late in the story feeling quite odd (Brandon took a bunch of plot points that had to be done and didn't have a specific person to do them and had Androl do them all, rather than share them round or give them to more established characters), he seems like someone who has wandered in from a different story.

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In fan-fiction, a writer will often include a character not already present in canon who will have an important role in the story, perhaps far more important than you would reasonably expect, either from the character's ascribed abilities and personality, or from the character's "late" entrance into the (canon) story. Androl was this character for Sanderson. Many of his actions should have been undertaken by a character already present in the canon, it didn't make sense for Androl to do them, e.g: stealing the seals from Taim; almost single-handedly saving Elayne's army with the gateway-into-Dragonmount trick.

 

Androl was great - the problem was he was too great. Still, I enjoyed him, but that didn't stop me from seeing his flaws. He did, however, ease my frustration with how gateways were used. Deathgates eased that frustration slightly, Androl and the other uses of gateways removed it with their brilliance, but maybe Sanderson took it a bit too far.

Edited by Roedran a'Naloy

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In fan-fiction, a writer will often include a character not already present in canon who will have an important role in the story, perhaps far more important than you would reasonably expect, either from the character's ascribed abilities and personality, or from the character's "late" entrance into the (canon) story. Androl was this character for Sanderson. Many of his actions should have been undertaken by a character already present in the canon, it didn't make sense for Androl to do them, e.g: stealing the seals from Taim; almost single-handedly saving Elayne's army with the gateway-into-Dragonmount trick.

The Dragonmount trick was the bit that jarred most for me...it just made Androl seem a bit like a 'Gary Stu' character to use the fanfiction terminology.  It stood out a lot when we have major characters like Moiraine, Nynaeve, and Min, not really having much in the way of 'awesome moments' to have Androl have so many and such prominent ones.  I also felt it was a shame that he was used so much as there were several interesting Asha'man characters of varying prominence (e.g. Narishma, Logain, Grady, Neald, etc.) who we hardly saw at all.  It would have been nice for them to have more screen time given this was our last chance to see them.  

 

Furthermore, I think Androl is one of the elements from the final book that we know would have been different if RJ had written the story; he would have used existing characters rather than developed Androl who had previously been nothing more than a name.  

 

I find Androl frustrating because he was one of the best written characters in the last three books, and I found his arc genuinely interesting to read.  The relationship with Pevara was well developed as well.  But at the same time, Androl took the story in directions that broke my immersion in the story because I felt like they were not things that would happen in the WoT world as RJ had created it.

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In fan-fiction, a writer will often include a character not already present in canon who will have an important role in the story, perhaps far more important than you would reasonably expect, either from the character's ascribed abilities and personality, or from the character's "late" entrance into the (canon) story. Androl was this character for Sanderson. Many of his actions should have been undertaken by a character already present in the canon, it didn't make sense for Androl to do them, e.g: stealing the seals from Taim; almost single-handedly saving Elayne's army with the gateway-into-Dragonmount trick.

The Dragonmount trick was the bit that jarred most for me...it just made Androl seem a bit like a 'Gary Stu' character to use the fanfiction terminology.  It stood out a lot when we have major characters like Moiraine, Nynaeve, and Min, not really having much in the way of 'awesome moments' to have Androl have so many and such prominent ones.  I also felt it was a shame that he was used so much as there were several interesting Asha'man characters of varying prominence (e.g. Narishma, Logain, Grady, Neald, etc.) who we hardly saw at all.  It would have been nice for them to have more screen time given this was our last chance to see them.  

 

Furthermore, I think Androl is one of the elements from the final book that we know would have been different if RJ had written the story; he would have used existing characters rather than developed Androl who had previously been nothing more than a name.  

 

I find Androl frustrating because he was one of the best written characters in the last three books, and I found his arc genuinely interesting to read.  The relationship with Pevara was well developed as well.  But at the same time, Androl took the story in directions that broke my immersion in the story because I felt like they were not things that would happen in the WoT world as RJ had created it.

What about Androl/Pevera bonding each other, thus reading each other's minds/emotions and thus solving the problem of mis-interpreting male and female characters. Since male/female characters feuding is one of the major themes of the whole series, I bet it was RJ's intention to have double bonding occur as a means of overcoming gender stereotypes and bring saidor/sadin, male/female, characters closer together. (And even workng together in ways not possible otherwise). Unless there is a quote refuting this idea?

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INTERVIEW: Feb 1st, 2013QUESTION
So what were some of the holes that you filled in with that creative freedom?
BRANDON SANDERSON

I tried to avoid talking about this much before because I don't want you to focus on what's Brandon and what's RJ, but now that it's all out, I do have a little more freedom. One thing is that early when I went to Charleston, I felt RJ was always adding characters, so I didn't want to add too many. I wanted to show something happening at the Black Tower, so Androl became my character that I took and expanded on from minor to main character. Androl himself and his relationship with Pevara was me. I felt the series needed it, and I’ve always wanted an Asha'man to play with, so to speak.

 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, there were some. For example, Pevara's fate isn't mentioned in the notes, which is why I felt all right co-opting her for the Black Tower storyline, which was mostly mine.

The above suggests to me that the double bond was BS as I'm not sure what other characters would have been slated to show us it.  If RJ was going to explore a double bond I think he would have done so already with Rand, Elayne, and Aviendha.

Edited by Rhienne

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The above suggests to me that the double bond was BS as I'm not sure what other characters would have been slated to show us it.

 

Think that's safe to say, especially considering BS got it wrong when he had Androl initiate the link that set off that rather inane double bond sequence.

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I liked Androl, and in the end he was one of my favorite characters. Maybe it's because he was a BS creation - he did kind of seem to have a much more contemporary personality, now that it's mentioned. I really do wish there was more on him...

 

That being said, I have to admit that I didn't really see that coming. I always thought Logain would rise to be the hero of the Asha'man and Black Tower...

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Definitely a good choice for someone for BS to expand on. All we had heard previously was about some guy that had a somewhat undefined Talent for Travelling. That he apparently didn't need to know a place to Travel from it.

Or that He could learn a place almost instantly.

"That being said, I have to admit that I didn't really see that coming. I always thought Logain would rise to be the hero of the Asha'man and Black Tower..." I liked that the Logain faction had to fight for him, and that Taim was smart enough to realize Turning him would be critical to gaining the whole Black Tower. It added depth to the Asha'man that they sadly lacked.

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Yes I also liked Logain needing to be rescued, but the problem is in the end Androl got most of the screen time and I just felt like Logain like Taim) were left unfulfilled.  These were two characters that I felt could of been so much more but both pretty much never got to reach their full potential in the books.

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In fan-fiction, a writer will often include a character not already present in canon who will have an important role in the story, perhaps far more important than you would reasonably expect, either from the character's ascribed abilities and personality, or from the character's "late" entrance into the (canon) story. Androl was this character for Sanderson. Many of his actions should have been undertaken by a character already present in the canon, it didn't make sense for Androl to do them, e.g: stealing the seals from Taim; almost single-handedly saving Elayne's army with the gateway-into-Dragonmount trick.

 

Androl was great - the problem was he was too great. Still, I enjoyed him, but that didn't stop me from seeing his flaws. He did, however, ease my frustration with how gateways were used. Deathgates eased that frustration slightly, Androl and the other uses of gateways removed it with their brilliance, but maybe Sanderson took it a bit too far.

That describes what I wrote for myself to the hilt....

"Yes I also liked Logain needing to be rescued, but the problem is in the end Androl got most of the screen time and I just felt like Logain like Taim) were left unfulfilled.  These were two characters that I felt could of been so much more but both pretty much never got to reach their full potential in the books."

Taim definitely felt unfulfilled to me. Logain, not so much. We are left to wonder how he will lead the Asha'man (and if he will marry his Aes Sedai, after he frees her) and are left with hope that perhaps, eventually the  Asha'man and Aes Sedai will reunite. 

Taim, spph!! Not only is he not very much of Be'lal at all, he's super pathetic compared to Demandred. His death didn't elevate Egwene's, it cheapened it; we already knew she was hoo-ah; she took down Mesaana. She ate the meal, then went to the entree. Thousands of pages devoted to Taim, and his death cheapens Egwene? Yep. Indeed. Aye. Yeah, Yea, ond verily. Forsooth. It might have been better if the Intro seen to the Forsaken hadn't included him, or hadn't been included at all.

Edited by Asgard Thorin

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This is my first post, so I'm a bit nervous :)

Well I think his role was quite fascinating. Developing his weakness in power to a leadership with his Talent is remarkable. However, back to first question, I dont think inspiration came from original. I think BS wanted to add a hint about what will happen about after the Last Battle with his bound with Pavera Sedai. We know in Age of Legends (i don't truly know terms in english sorry) male and female Aes Sedai works together and their bound's uniqueness gives us a clue.

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To answer your question Tam was who RJ originally intended to be the DR, or someone very much like him. Instead he was convinced to make him younger, and Rand was born, but he kept Tam and gave him a place.

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This is my first post, so I'm a bit nervous :)

Well I think his role was quite fascinating. Developing his weakness in power to a leadership with his Talent is remarkable. However, back to first question, I dont think inspiration came from original. I think BS wanted to add a hint about what will happen about after the Last Battle with his bound with Pavera Sedai. We know in Age of Legends (i don't truly know terms in english sorry) male and female Aes Sedai works together and their bound's uniqueness gives us a clue.

Congratulations Kandor, and nice to here from you! I believe you have a good point, and no need to apologize for your English. 

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 I think BS wanted to add a hint about what will happen about after the Last Battle with his bound with Pavera Sedai. We know in Age of Legends (i don't truly know terms in english sorry) male and female Aes Sedai works together and their bound's uniqueness gives us a clue.

 

Hope the encyclopedia expands on this topic a bit. Would be interesting to hear how they work together as we know Ashsaman and AS stay separate post LB. There is also the bit about Brandon getting the mechanics of linking wrong which makes me wonder about some of the rest. It's been posted a few times but Luckers had a spot on "Isam" style recap of that scene:

 

 

Pevara: I'm Aes Sedai, you're a man who can channel. You scare me.

Androl: I can't trust you.

Pevara: I can help you plan your coup against Taim. He's taken the rest of my sisters. That totally happened. I cried. Off screen.

Androl: You offer yourself as bait?

Pevara: Say what now?

Androl: Ah sarcasm.

Pevara: You really don't know anything about Aes Sedai do you?

Androl: Wait, what about your ideas for the coup?

Pevara: We're discussing Aes Sedai now. Keep up.

Androl: Well, sure I know alot about Aes Sedai. I know all your innermost flaws.

Pevara: So you've spent time studying us?

Androl: Oh no, I've avoided you as best I can.

Pevara: Then how can you know about flaws none but the Wise One's, some Kinswomen and maybe Fortuona know about.

Androl: I read this thread: http://www.dragonmou...f-an-aes-sedai/ . How did you know about those other things?

Pevara: eWoT, idiot. Let's link.

Androl: Well, okay, just so long as you don't freak out on me.

Pevara: Don't be silly. Now, break the laws of physics and initiate the link. Don't worry, I misunderstood something I studied earlier. It will work.

Androl: Okay...

Pevara: ZOMG YOU'RE CONTROLLING ME!!!!! #MindRapeBond

Androl: You said you wouldn't freak out. Just for that... #MindRapeBond.

Pevara: Well, that was certainly interesting.

Androl: Oh yes. I enjoyed it, myself. Look, the door is opening. I, the weak one, will take steps to protect us from the very likely reality that we're about to be Mindraped in a far less congenial way. You just stand there and wax lyrical about the One Power. Good girl.

FanStandInChild: Hey Mum! I'm on TV!!!

Pevara: Calm down sparky, at this stage it's just a book. Now, what terrible news do you have?

FanStandInChild: Weilyn 13.0 just rocked up. You can infer that Logain might suffer the same fate.

Pevara: OH NO NOT LOGAIN!!!!!

Androl: Poor Melare. She seemed nice.

Pevara: Who?

Androl: Never mind. Onward and upward my friends! Into the breach!

Pevara: You're strange. I have a feeling we're going to end up together.

Androl: Say what now?

Brandon: To be continued.... 

 

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Did anyone else pick up on Androl reflecting on his past and mentioning his relation to someone named Jain?  Androl keeps his past pretty close to his chest.  Could he be Jain Farstrider's son or friend?

 

On another note.  Logain's role in the last book was kind of Lo-lame!  His pent up anger and aggression seemed a bit forced.  His character was gone from the books for so long and then reappears with all of this new emotion that we never saw before.  I think he should have been focused on a bit more and Androl a bit less.  I do agree that some of the more known Asha'man (Grady, Neald, Naeff, Narishma, etc..) should have gotten some more of the face time.  The only problem was they weren't at the BT.  We really didn't know any of the Asha'man there because the goings on there were kept quiet.

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