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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The "OMG I just finished!" Thread


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My position is a little different from a lot of you. EOTW is older than me. For you oldest fans, who saw the series through from start to finish, I don't know quite how you feel. I feel like I just witnessed the fall of a nation. Something that's been around for seemingly forever, that you thought would always be a part of your life... and then one day it's over, a solemn reminder of our own mortality.

 

Also, the hype leading up to AMOL convinced me to pick up the Mistborn books and Warbreaker to keep me sated, which I certainly don't regret ;)

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Anyone else really in shock now that it's over? I don't think it really hit me that this is the end until the day after I finished. I've been reading and following these books for so long that the thought of there never being any more is hard to get my mind around. 

Some people do report shock. I feel pretty awesome. Been reading this thing for 12 years, and it's finally over. Was a good trip. I'll miss the theorizing and the anticipation, but other than that, there's nothing to stop me from rereading the series if I want to go back to the old favorite characters. Meanwhile, we still have aSoFaI, which is likely to last for at least 6-7 more years, if Martin finishes it at all.

We might also see a high-quality animated WoT TV series eventually, so there's that to look forward to.

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Anyone else really in shock now that it's over? I don't think it really hit me that this is the end until the day after I finished. I've been reading and following these books for so long that the thought of there never being any more is hard to get my mind around. 

 

Same here. For me the next Wheel of Time book has always been a thing to really look forward to, a beacon in the night... But now that its over its like something really special has been taken from me and I feel empty.. We all have been bonded to the series for so long and now its been severed... I'm satisfied and happy with the end, but was just expecting a bit more on the aftermath.. I was expecting a small snippet by RJ on how and where the main characters would be after say 10 years, but I guess he wanted to leave that to interpretation...

 

I really hope there is a TV series because I just can't imagine the end to the Wheel of Time... Its become a part of me now

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Disappointed....

 

Don't know if I built it up too much...

 

Don't know if I read it too fast....

 

It didn't feel like a Wheel of Time book.  Maybe it's the realisation that it's the final book.... but....  I don't know, I am underwhelmed.

 

X2 I've already said the same in another thread, did not feel like a wot book.

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So, I finished last night. I loved it, every twist and turn. Yes, I could wish for more or be upset it didn't offer everything I wanted but there is no point in that. I of course thought the ending was abrupt. My take on it is this. Robert Jordan wrote the end as abrupt as it was YEARS ago. I think the story evolved beyond that pre written ending. Had Jordan been the one to finish it, I find it doubtful it would have ended so abruptly. I think he would have seen that and added a little more meat to the bare bones ending he had planned. But how do you complain about using RJ's ending. It is SO fitting to end with his words as HE envisioned them. It is a proper ending, if we couldn't have the man himself finish for us, this ending is a tribute to him and allows him to have his voice back at the end.

 

 

Now, maybe I was reading too fast and missed it, but who under the bloody light killed Asmodean?? I assume at this point it was graendel, as demandred took himself out of the running. If we are not supposed to post on it, could someone PM me? I REALLY don't want to wait to find out on my reread.

Edited by HighLordXanthus
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It was in the TOM glossary. There were also a couple of decisive hints in TOM itself, but if you didn't catch them, there was the glossary.

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spoilers below...just being safe

 

 

SPOILERS BELOW, BIG ONES

 

I loved it, ironically the first 1/5th of the book was underwhelming for me- then it seemed to pick up.

 

Loved

 

Lan's duel with Demandred

Noal returning to save olver

The sudden appearance of borderlanders at lans 'last charge'

The whole concept of a village of turned channelers was a surprise for me.

Thom!!! his casual killing of the darkfriends, while writing an epic ;)

 

 

Neutral to

Faile- just never took to her

Elayne being put in charge of the armies- i just though "nooooo" she has always been a lead fave character

Androl- i just didnt have time to care for him...and more androl meant less mat etc.

 

 

A few plot lines didnt make sense, for example i couldnt understand why they didnt use the lava trick on a larger scale with a full circle?

 

And i was unconvinced demandred would not know where rand was... everyone else seemed to know where he was?

 

 

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I think nobody can be happy with end ...why? Because everyone dreamed how it will end,  charakter is going to die and so on and everyone made  they own opinion.

 

For me I personaly think  there is missing something like timeline in the Lord of Rings where will be show what happen after + I think if RJ write this ending now, this ending will be diferent

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If RJ was still writing them we would still be waiting. We may have a "more complete" ending, or we may not, but either way it would still be years, if not decades, off. I assumed he would write until his death regardless if that was soon or another twenty years, and then have someone come in and finish it.

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If RJ was still writing them we would still be waiting. We may have a "more complete" ending, or we may not, but either way it would still be years, if not decades, off. I assumed he would write until his death regardless if that was soon or another twenty years, and then have someone come in and finish it.

Curious as to what makes you say this? After seeing all the filler and bloat in these last three books its obvious that Brandon was right and they should not have been split. The amount of material was much closer to RJ's claim of 1 more book(even if split into two large volumes). Regardless given RJ's writing output before he got sick saying it would be years or decades off from now is absurd hyperbole.

Edited by Suttree
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I think nobody can be happy with end ...why? Because everyone dreamed how it will end,  charakter is going to die and so on and everyone made  they own opinion.

 

For me I personaly think  there is missing something like timeline in the Lord of Rings where will be show what happen after + I think if RJ write this ending now, this ending will be diferent

I do not agree. I think most people have problems with tthe giant plot holes.  After reading 13 books where everything is explained to the most minute detail, we are rushed through the ending giving no explaination for what is happening or how it happened.  Another problem is when cliff hangers are set up in a previous book and then told to RAFO, that implies that if i read it i will find out.... this did not happen.

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@Suttree for me the biggest bloat was around book 8 to book 11?am i really the only one who found them hard going? ESPECIALLY book 10 which i admit i skim read.

You cant be including KoD in that? the pace was equal to TgS and ToM while being not nearly as far along in the story arc. It's pretty hard to compare the middle stages of a series when things are still being set up to the finale when threads are being wrapped. Still I'm not sure you are getting what bloat means from a literary perspective. Brandon seemed unable to use literary devices like ellipsis(which Jordan was very skilled at) to advance the action. As a result we get his "tell don't show" style that stretches things out far beyond what they need to be. Even worse the quality of prose is so far behind RJ that those extended sections really suffer. Throw in the jarring modern words that ruin immersion and well you can see. There are quite literally whole sections you could cut out from these last three books and not lose a single thing. Now by CoT things had certainly gotten away from RJ. Regardless all his sections were riddled with foreshadowing and set up so it would take a massive rewrite to cut anything. Of course this was fixed with KoD and he quite obviously had things going in the right direction. For someone to say we would have waited decades past today's date for the end is absurd. Edited by Suttree
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I dont know if its because i signed up with facebook- but quoting isnt working for me and neither are line breaks, apologies for any walls of text.

 

I can only go by personal feelings mate.

 

 

For me, ive reread the series maybee 8 times (except amol)- i always did a reread when a new book came out.

 

I loved 1-7, for me books 8 to 11 werent the best (10 was the worst).

 

I loved all of sandersons 3 books though, but it may be a case of differing tastes, i devoured 'the way of kings' which i know is not to everyones taste...

 

 

 

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oh to elaborate, by bloat i meant the endless descriptions of clothing / women sniffing at each other etc.

 

If i have any critism of jordan it would be his handling of many female characters.

 

 

I know im not an expert on all the books like many here, but that is how i felt.

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Yeah people look for different things in their fantasy. What I've generally seen is those who like high action and aren't bothered overly much by the mistakes, timeline issues and quality of prose have really enjoyed these last few books. That is awesome and im sure they work on that level. It's just hard for me now that we have authors like Bakker and Rothfuss who have really raised the bar from a quality perspective to get into it.

Edited by Suttree
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I will grant you rothfuss is excellent by the way (apologies if im taking it off topic). Although waiting god knows how long for the third book is hard ;)

 

I will admit i skipped books 8-11 of wot this reread, so my memory is not as good for those.

 

However what i remember was i found certain characters so annoying that i would get bored and desperate for the POV to change to those characters i did like.

 

But, everyone has different taste, and the series is definitely a masterpiece overall.

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Just finished, feeling somewhat conflicted, sad about some of the main characters that died. Overall very satisfied with ending, but would've liked to have seen the meeting between Arthur Hawkwing and Fortuona, did he change her mind about any of the Seanchan customs e.g enslaving women channelers. I know that Elyane and Aviendha had leadership roles to fullfill but Min could've gone with Rand. What will become of the Aiel? So many questions :(

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Mulled over the Epilogue for a day and I"m even less satisfied now. I did enjoy the book very much, but I honestly would much rather have found an ending such as "...and the final chapters can be found in the next book 'The Fourth Age'". Aside from a really sad Ex La Machina ending, riding off into the (proverbial) sunset is a drool cliche. It's how you end a story you're sick of writing. It may as well have "And they all lived happily every after."

What I see instead is a father ditching his kids so he can live a normal or adventurous life, Min and Mat both living lives they'll hate, and a serious unresolved kingdom succession problems between Perrin and Zarine (for emphasis). Given the scale and scope of the books, it's irresponsible to leave these ends untied.

I'm hoping there is at least one 4th age book that explains this stuff away, that startes with "...and after a few steps, he stopped, considering the consequences to others of his choices... and in returning to seek council with Cadsuane his path was clear..."

 

Just my $0.02.

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Had to share my thoughts on the final book somewhere. I have been reading WOT since 2000 and having now finished the series I am entirely satisfied. A story as grand as this or any other "epic" for want of a better (if not overused) word (well said Thom Merrilin) was always going to be about the journey. WOT through 14 books has always kept me salivating for more. Never have I read a series and been taken on such a journey of discovery.

 

Addressing the final book, is somewhat difficult for me. It was a book perhaps overshadowed by my own emotions; accepting that the series had finally come to end, a realisation that this was indeed another painful goodbye to Mr Jordan and an understanding that Rand, Mat, Perrin et al would no longer be part of my life. For these reasons, and those outlined in the beginning of this post, AMoL was never really going to disappoint me.

 

However trying to shirk my inane bias toward the series, looking at AMoL as a stand alone novel, there are a few points I would like to address.

 

1. The opening half of the book, prior to the Last Battle, felt mundane, dare I say repetitive almost. It concentrates on humanities last skirmishes against the Dark One before regrouping for the Last Battle itself. Each theatre of war (Tarwins Gap, Kandor, Andor, Shayol Ghul) follows the same process; description of battles, momentum swings for either Good or Evil, and ultimately the fall of a Great Captain to trickery or compulsion at the hands of the Forsaken. Rinse and repeat.

 

2. The Last Battle. As in THE actual Last Battle, that monstrous chapter of near 200pgs, is the most spectacular piece of writing describing the ebbs, flows and pulses (thanks Mat) of battle in the entire series. Throughout this section, as with all series' as grand as this, some set pieces delighted whilst others fell flat; some death sequences shocked, others tugged at your heart strings or strangely had the entirely opposite effect (Gawyn). Overall it was a breathtaking chapter and one I know when I read in years to come will likely effect me in different ways.

 

3. Rand vs The Dark One. This I'm sorry to say for me turned from being the most exciting, compelling part of the book, to being the most disappointing. Going into AMoL I wanted to believe that Rand's story was being told for a reason. I wanted an explanation as to why in this cyclical world, ruled by the Wheel of Time, where major events would ultimately repeat themselves, did Jordan decide to tell us Rand's tale? And oh boy did I think I was going to find my answer. Rand's bold statement of intent at the start of AMoL (to kill the Dark One) set my pulse racing. I knew as soon as he said it that it couldn't, shouldn't be possible. The Dark One indeed showed Rand the consequence of a world without evil. A world sterilised by the lack of free will to commit evil acts. Still however I thought ok, we can't have a world without the Dark One, at least have one where he's sealed up properly...FOREVER...but at some terrible cost to humanity; the breaking of the wheel? the loss of channelling forever? the merging of all worlds, Finn-land, Tel'aran'rhiod etc into one (my apologies for those obvious and over theorised examples). I, humbly, might I add, wanted something more. More than Rand saying oh hell, let's just fix this great big hole up properly until someone decides to bore a hole into again in 2000yrs time. It felt like an unsatisfying end despite having such a bold desire at the start of the book. It made me question the point in what he done!? If he was able to look back and reminisce about what he had done wrong as Lews Therin, then why not look back further again to previous battles, previous encounters as different entities? Elan Morin said it himself; "You and I have fought a thousand battles since the turning of the Wheel, a thousand times a thousand." I always assumed that the prologue, and Elan Moran's words where an unspoken challenge...try and change this cycle Dragon??? Perhaps I should have simply interpreted those words as sense of foreshadowing or foreboding as to how the series would end? How things turned out however almost seemed like an easy way out when there was the possibility of something grander!?

 

Overall, the rest of the book, despite varying criticisms I have read concerning its open endedness relating to a number of characters and/or story lines, was in line with my own personal expectations. I would hate to end this post sounding negative. AMoL was not a negative experience. The END, the OUTCOME, the GRAND FINALE, call it what you will was not how i had imagined it, but never the less I enjoyed it all immensely. I laughed, I cried, I embraced it as part of the collective series I've known and loved these past number of years. It is done now and I was glad to have the pleasure of reading it.

 

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If he was able to look back and reminisce about what he had done wrong as Lews Therin, then why not look back further again to previous battles, previous encounters as different entities?

He only had a glimpse of those lives on DM during "VoG". He did not have access to them after like he did with the LTT memories. Further it was made pretty clear that killing the DO was a bad idea and not inline with how the wheel works.

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If he was able to look back and reminisce about what he had done wrong as Lews Therin, then why not look back further again to previous battles, previous encounters as different entities?

He only had a glimpse of those lives on DM during "VoG". He did not have access to them after like he did with the LTT memories. Further it was made pretty clear that killing the DO was a bad idea and not inline with how the wheel works.

I accept your point concerning how far back Rand could see into his previous lives.

 

And yes I agree killing the DO would have been a very bad idea indeed...this is made clear in the vision shown to Rand. What I was trying to say was that I had simply hoped for a more meaningful end to Rands tale. I had assumed, perhaps wrongly in the 1st place, that there was purpose or point to Rands story outside the usual and expected turnings of the Wheel. That this time would be different from all that had went before in Rands previous lives as the Dragon/Champion. I had assumed we would see perhaps not the DO killed per se, but him being more securely sealed away...perhaps in a way that came at a terrible cost to humanity ie the breaking of the wheel and the cycle of the dragon etc with perhaps the consequence being the loss of channeling and therefore a world that would never again see the paradise that was the Age of Legends? Just an example.

Edited by Ashaman Andr3w
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I posted some thoughts here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78573-sadness-and-joy/ but those are without spoilers.  ///

 

With spoilers the narrative changes slightly.  WoT was often a pleasant diversion from life, a way to get lost for a short period.  Sometimes it was a distraction from good, sometimes from bad.  But, the end of it all made me both sad and happy.  I can't believe the journey is over, but I also appreciate the end.  I got so caught up in chapter 37, the Last Battle, that I didn't mourn anyone's death at the time.  Immediately after Ch. 37 I set the book down and took a deep breath and reflected.  (I actually took my dog for a walk).  I let myself think about it, and I did not feel bad for anyone giving their lives as they fought the Shadow.  Egwene, Gawyn, Suian, Bryne, etc.  I had a lot of emotion for those left behind, even if they only lasted moments, such as how Bryne lost all reason and went charging into the dark.  Or when Berelain was freaking out about Galad. ////

 

Of course, I felt no pity at all for Perrin, because ever since he met Faile every other thought he had was, "ERMAGERD FAILE!!!!" so when he was searching for her at the end it just seemed, well, rote.  ///

 

I really loved Perrin v. Slayer, Mat v. Mashadar, etc.  I enjoyed Rand v. the DO.  I would have been very upset if RJ would have named the books Wheel of Time, talked about how everything was cyclical, described the Lace of Ages and the turnings of the Wheel, and then suddenly turned around and just broke it all by Rand breaking the wheel/killing the DO/etc.  The ending was 100% appropriate and I cannot imagine any other.  You just can't name a series Wheel of Time and have the entire series be all about not a Wheel of Time.  Would have been just...wrong.

 

//// After though, the one thing that struck me was that I really wish it was longer.  I want another book, following how Randland rebuilds, what happens to the Sharans, how Rand actually manages to stay away from influencing world events, or if he instead does exactly that.  I want another book all about the First Age, all about the Fifth Age, all about how in the Sixth Age Amerasu is reborn and does this and that and this.  I want to hear the stories of all the Heroes of the Horn.  

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I accept your point concerning how far back Rand could see into his previous lives.

 

And yes I agree killing the DO would have been a very bad idea indeed...this is made clear in the vision shown to Rand. What I was trying to say was that I had simply hoped for a more meaningful end to Rands tale. I had assumed, perhaps wrongly in the 1st place, that there was purpose or point to Rands story outside the usual and expected turnings of the Wheel. That this time would be different from all that had went before in Rands previous lives as the Dragon/Champion. I had assumed we would see perhaps not the DO killed per se, but him being more securely sealed away...perhaps in a way that came at a terrible cost to humanity ie the breaking of the wheel and the cycle of the dragon etc with perhaps the consequence being the loss of channeling and therefore a world that would never again see the paradise that was the Age of Legends? Just an example.

 

I disagree because in my mind everything would have lost all meaning had Rand done such a thing.  To me the beauty is in the Journey.  As an analogy: Yes, I fully expect that Rand (now in Elan's body) will eventually die and grow old.  That is unavoidable.  I knew that starting the series that the main characters were unlikely to turn immortal.  However, I still wanted to hear their story.  I still wanted to know their journey.  It is the same with the turnings of the wheel.  Every turn is somewhat different, and even if you know that the wheel will once again turn someday, it doesn't (to me) make hearing the stories any less worth it.

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