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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

The "OMG I just finished!" Thread

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RJ had a lot of trouble finishing anything; I don't think he ever had to worry about wrapping it up too neatly :)

 

I'm still frustrated that we never saw more of the Black Tower. Androl's character alone showed how much drama and texture could be mined from that place, even without the Aes Sedai. Just reading about the Ashaman slowly watching the Tower change as Taim played his hand, the arrival of Logain, or the aftermath of the Cleansing and it's impact on the dynamics of the Black Tower would have been fascinating, especially with RJ's writing style.

 

Instead we got the Black Ajah hunters in the WT and the mystery of the Salidar Sitters....

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RJ had a lot of trouble finishing anything; I don't think he ever had to worry about wrapping it up too neatly :) I'm still frustrated that we never saw more of the Black Tower. Androl's character alone showed how much drama and texture could be mined from that place, even without the Aes Sedai. Just reading about the Ashaman slowly watching the Tower change as Taim played his hand, the arrival of Logain, or the aftermath of the Cleansing and it's impact on the dynamics of the Black Tower would have been fascinating, especially with RJ's writing style. Instead we got the Black Ajah hunters in the WT and the mystery of the Salidar Sitters....

 

Considering the numerous plots and points of views in the series this was expected. I love RJs writing style and the world he created but when you have so many things going on at the same time you risk diluting the main plots. He could have written a whole book about the Black Tower.

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Yeah, I know keeping the Black Tower off-screen for as long as a possible was a conscious choice by RJ, a hanging sword that the reader kept waiting to see drop. I remember being so depressed when I figured that out, and seeing the Battle for the Black Tower get left on the cutting-room floor for AMOL didn't help matters.

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I liked the rankings of the badasses via duels with Demandred. Its finally settled... mostly. Gawyn = Pretty tough, still pretty much a blademaster. Galad = Really tough, true blademaster. Lan = Ridiculous, 2 Myrddraal??? 2? and took out Demandred after fighting all day.

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It was also nice to see that Talmanes could hold his own against a Fade.

 

Lan was unreal, and the only thing I could think of that was more badass was Thom just passing the time composing a ballad between turns killing channelers and shoving them into a ditch, then returning to his verse.

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Oh and someone asked earlier about Birgitte being reborn as Elayne's daughter.. I believe the timing fits better with Melaine's birth. Considering the Dragon's Peace, I think both Gaidal and Birgitte would have to be reborn Aiel this turning, if they are to live up to their usual heroic deeds.

I would think it is meant to make you ponder, but if RJ had a plan for that (which I don't think he did) we are probably not supposed to be able to guess, just some random people we don't know. I do agree that they probably have to be Aiel, or maybe Seanchan, so possibly Melaine, but probably nobody of note.

I think you're correct about birgitte being reborn as an Aiel but can't see that for gaidal. Much more likely for him to be seanchan. The weapons alone seem to say this. Birgitte hates using swords, so I can see her as a maiden but doesn't causal usually use two swords? Either way, one sword or two, I can't see gaidal as an Aiel.

Edited by nianp

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I liked the rankings of the badasses via duels with Demandred. Its finally settled... mostly. Gawyn = Pretty tough, still pretty much a blademaster. Galad = Really tough, true blademaster. Lan = Ridiculous, 2 Myrddraal??? 2? and took out Demandred after fighting all day.

+1

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But the thing is... The ending IS RJ's work!

 

Yes & no. I mean even extremely detailed notes will never really be a substitute. I enjoyed it overall but the more time I spend thinking about it, the more I'm beginning to wonder what it would've been like if RJ had done it in the style that he wrote Eye of the World.

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Just bought and finished the book.  Overall, a very satisfying conclusion to 18 years of reading. I congratulate BS for doing as admirable a job as he did - frankly, it was always an impossible task, but he did it with as much aplomb as possible.

 

Loved the entire representation of the Last Battle.  The four fronts and using all the living Great Captains - then their Compulsion and Matt taking overall control was genius. 

 

I don't have 'complaints' as such.  I do have a few things which I would have liked to have seen - given what was done with the book:

 

1.  If you're going to kill Siuan, give us an on-screen reunion with Moiraine.  I personally wish her death had been more 'epic' but will grant the "whole vagaries of war and senselessness" that her sudden death might convey.

 

2. Alivia - really, was that all there was.

 

3.  On a related note to #2.  If you're going to spend so much build up in the previous books to the introduction of very strong channelers and their complete uniqueness like Alivia, Sharina, Talaan - it would have been more fun to have them do more, especially go toe-to-toe with some of the other big guns.

 

4.  Logain and glory to come - is the glory his creation of a new black tower or being 'seal breaker'? I get that Egwene had to face Taim in order to die, but didn't we really all want to see some sort of slap down between the two guys?

 

 

5. Egwene's death - Her scene with Siuan and the issue of legacy.  I don't know that her legacy is secure, which also diminishes Siuan, though I'm glad Siuan's death preceded Egwene's for her sake.  Especially with the machinations to make Cadsuanne Amirlyn so soon and the return to old AS behavior, I wonder whether Egwene will have had any lasting impact. 

 

Again, very satisfied with the ending after all these years (and fears of how it could go horribly wrong). 

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    I finished AMoL 57 hours ago. I've read every post on this thread. I'm still not sure how to say all I'd like to say..

 

    I don't remember the name of the bookstore but I remember exactly where in the store's layout the Fantasy/Sci Fi section was. It was '90 or '91 and I was looking for something new to read. I'd been a voracious reader of the fantasy genre since the age of 13. I was now 21 or 22. A book with a blue cover showing a man in armor on a black horse and a woman in shades of blue on a smaller white horse with a full moon behind caught my eye. I picked it up and read the back description. I left the store with The Eye of the World and gained a best friend.

    I have identified with Rand very strongly from the very beginning. I feel I have quite a few things in common with him, one of the biggest being that I am adopted also and can lay the lion's share of credit for the man I've become on mostly one parent; my Mother, in my case. So my main focus, when I did contemplate the possible endings, was whether or not there was any way Rand was going to live beyond the Last Battle. When RJ passed, I was deeply saddened for him, Harriet and the rest of his family. I'm very ashamed that at least the 2nd thought that ran through my head was "Well we'll never get the ending now". I wish I had discovered Dragonmount then but it wasn't till after the announcement that Brandon would make the attempt that I found this site. I read Elantris and thought it was a good effort for a 1st book. I read the Mistborn Trilogy and thought it was brilliant. I had hope. I've only read books 10 through 13 of WoT once each. When it was clear that the book following WH wouldn't be the last, I put the series on hold until I knew the last one was forthcoming. I had done a re-read before each new release since probably TSR and couldn't do it anymore. I never was angry about the delays in between (frustrated perhaps) and I never agreed with some that thought RJ was dragging it out or adding too much fluff. I was grateful for every word of what had become, to me, the greatest fantasy series I had ever read, surpassing even Tolkien. There were a couple of things that I didn't love about Jordan's style but it was never anywhere near enough to change my opinion overall.
     Brandon is not RJ, although I think he is a very good writer, at the least, based on what I've read of his so far. There are differences in the characters and the way they're written to an extent, certainly. I don't think there was any way that wouldn't be the case, under the circumstances. I believe Brandon did the best he or anyone one earth possibly could; first and foremost because he is a huge WoT fan himself and knows what getting the end means to all of us. I choose not to be critical because I still view all of this as an incredible gift. That doesn't mean that criticism shouldn't be spoken, I would never say that. 
     As to AMoL itself, I for a long time knew that reading this book was going to very bittersweet for me. I've had these characters, this world, in my life longer that I've known my wife of going on 17 yrs and my daughter and son. Once the end was known, I knew no possible future re-read would ever be the same. I fully expected to be crying my eyes out at the end, no matter what ended up happening. I was not wrong; I shed many tears during this book and several during the books leading up to it. Rand's reunion with Moiraine was something I was most looking forward to and it certainly got me. It was good but I thought it could've been better somehow, although I couldnt really say how. I, too, wish she had had a bigger role, as well as Nynaeve. Some have spoken of a few uses of modern words jolting them during the read. I kind of thought Rand calling Egwene a brat didn't really quite work. Was that term ever used anywhere else in the series? I can't recall it, but my memory retention is far from the best. I found the whole book to be very engaging for the most part, almost all of it kept me riveted and I read it as fast as I've ever read any book, even though part of me didn't want to. I welled up at Gawyn's death even though he'd always been a "meh" character for me. Suian's death was sudden and caught me off guard. Egwene's dying got me pretty good. I did not expect that. She had gotten so strong, when she went back to the battlefield, I just assumed she would find a way to power through. Suian and Leane both managed to make it through stilling, with Suian losing her warder also. I found when Egwene spoke to Rand after she had passed even more powerful than her death; that broke me up. I liked Mat's arc for the most part. I think Brandon writes Mat pretty well although there are differences there as well.
    I felt all the war and battle scenes were probably necessary. This was practically the whole world gathered up for the Last Battle; that meant a lot of humans had to die to get down to enough to seem like all was lost. I get that the combatant death toll on both sides was massive and a lot of it felt generic but I don't know that it could've really been avoided. The arrival of the Sharans under Demandred stunned me! I have to assume Demandred's consuming hatred/jealousy of Lews Therin explains some of his actions. Lan being the one to finally kill him was fantastic. I enjoyed Androl and Pevara, surprising for characters that had been introduced so lately. What Androl did with gateways was amazing. I felt Perrin's part was good, not great. Someone mentioned that his scene when he forged his Power-wrought hammer was more powerful/emotional than anything he did in this book. I think I agree with that. I liked Faile in this book. I have found her annoying at times previously, but not this time. Her sacrifice to try to keep Olver alive with the Horn was poignant. Olver's story was very satisfying. I did not know where his storyline was going to go. I agree with most that the Padan Fain part in this book got short shrift. I did love Mat surviving the Mashadar spear and killing Fain with the dagger. I was glad to see Talmanes character get some development; he was an unexpected, yet pleasant, little surprise. I understood and was good with, the way Rand's confrontation with the Dark One went. It was an interesting way to present it, but the philosophy worked for me. I understood not killing the DO at the end but sealing him off properly instead. I admit to some disappointment that we didn't get the description of what Alivia did to make the body transfer happen. She was "to help Rand die" and it seems she did but that was all behind the scenes. With all the new wonders with the Power that had come about, I thought this one would be huge and had hoped to read it. I was good with the way Rand slipped away, though after some reflection, it does seem a little off that he seems to be riding away from his unborn children. I was starting to get concerned about his seeming nonchalance about fatherhood until the scene with Elayne when he touched her belly. I choose to believe he will not wander indefinitely but find his way back to be in their lives somehow. Part of me agrees with those who wanted more epilogue, more "after". But I don't think I expected to get too much of that, so I'm not that upset about it.
    I was unbelievably depressed in the aftermath of finishing; even more than I thought I would be. I'm happy and I think pretty satisfied with this end. I do feel like I've lost a best friend that I've known for half my life. I also kind of feel like we've lost RJ for a second time now. It seems that his last words have now truly been spoken. I choose to believe what I've heard and read; that there will be no outriggers written by others. It's better than hoping for more that may never come.
   

    I would like to thank Robert Jordan for his masterpiece creation that he shared with us. The Wheel of Time has affected me like nothing I've ever read before and I fear nothing will again, although I will continue reading fantasy, probably for the rest of my life. I would like to thank Harriet, Brandon and the rest of Team Jordan for bringing us the end, as RJ wished when he knew he would not be able to himself. I am eternally grateful.
 

    I'm sorry this post is so long but I needed to express a little more than just what I thought of AMoL. Thank you to Dragonmount for giving us a place to do so. Wow, I'm welling up again as I finish this. May the Light illuminate you all.

Edited by peregrine al thor

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I finished last night. I need to have a think. But overall, i was underwhelmed. I agree with Naposim. I dont know if its fair to blame Sanderson or not, no way of knowing how much he had to work with. I really enjoyed his previous two books, I was able to get over the differences in style between him and RJ and just ignore when characters did not speak the way they were supposed to. But AMOL just felt weak for the most part. Maybe there were just too many things to wrap up. The defeat of Dark One via tricking Moridin to use Callandor to get Saidin Saidar AND True Power combined felt a bit contrived but maybe there was no way to defeat uber DO convincingly.

 

Androl and Pevara took up too much time for minor characters (although maybe its a good way of showcasing   model of how Aes Sedai and Ashaman will now work togehter instead of trying to force each other via bonding).  Moiraine did not get enough time after that epic rescue. 

5. Egwene's death - Her scene with Siuan and the issue of legacy.  I don't know that her legacy is secure, which also diminishes Siuan, though I'm glad Siuan's death preceded Egwene's for her sake.  Especially with the machinations to make Cadsuanne Amirlyn so soon and the return to old AS behavior, I wonder whether Egwene will have had any lasting impact. 

Obviously there's no guarantee but Egwene made a LOT of changes in the way the Tower worked - for instance not allowing the Hall to sit without giving the Amyrlin enough time to arrive, allowing anyone to sign up etc. I think those changes will carry forward. Plus she was truly of no ajahs which might help avoid ajah prejudices in the future. 

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...it's over. for the past 7 years, i lived through this series, fantasized about it, and on my spare time thought about it. I ACTUALLY dreamed chapters, like me reading the chapter, word for word, and the scenes occuring around me in my dream.

 

I feel empty, in shock, happy, sad....but LIGHT that ending was bloody beautiful when Rand walked off....

I'm sad Egwene, Siuan, and Gareth, died....Gawyn deserved it for being an idiot, and I was only sad for Egwene when he died.

 

Now how to find a new series before I die of shock???.....should I close my eyes in the fantasy section and spin around in circles and point to a random location in honour of Mat?.....

 

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.

 

The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you RJ, and BS, and all those who had any contributing role to the story...including the readers.

 

Farewell Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Elayne, Lan, Moiraine....and all the rest I will not mention since there are far too many of you I will miss.

 

Farewell

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A great end to the story.  You can choose to focus on the writing - less polish/poise, less descriptive, more action-oriented.  I knew it would that way - Sanderson overall did a great job, and I choose to focus on the big picture.

 

The three main things that bothered me were the ability to tie off gateways (I thought this couldn't be done?  If it can there are serious and illogical missed opportunities to do so).  Also, having the Choedan Kal would have saved tens of thousands of lives - I will never agree with Rand's decision on that one (or anyone that backs that decision).  Finally, the off-screen deaths.  At least let me see Bashere go down, he was one of my favorites.  I don't think Sanderson can write his dialog properly but he definitely could have done a quick death scene.

 

The moments of awesome far outweigh my largest complaints.  Too many amazing moments to mention...Lan/Demandred, Perrin/Slayer, Mat/Demandred (the general's duel), Rand/DO....  I was satisfied with the confrontation with the Dark One; I had no idea how that was going to play out, and I enjoyed it greatly.  Those of us who predicted the use of the True Power as a buffer were correct - I remember a lot of people calling that theory out as ridiculous.  Props to the originator of the body-swap theory - I was never sure whether or not I thought that would happen.

 

Also I would have traded Elayne for Egwene.  Alas, an idiot still sits the Lion Throne.

 

Al dival, al kiserai, al mashi!

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I started reading this series back in high school when I was 16. Im now 33. I've reread the series probably 4-5 times with my last run through these last few months leading up to AMoL. In the 17 years of reading this series I've been through a lot and grown as the characters have through the books. It feels like a huge chapter in my life just has closed. I know I can come revisit but there will never be the excitment of what may happen, how's everything going to work out, and whose going to do what. Plus as my family grows its going to be hard to dedicate the time to doing another reread. I feel like I graduated from school again and said goodbye to friends I know I will probably never really see again but will remember the fondly. Thank you RJ, BS and the admin members of the various WOT sites for everything you've done.

 

A few side notes:

I thought the overall book was great

The sharans came out of left field, wish there was a little more follow through along with Demandred

Egwene death caught me off guard as  I believe she would have been the one to rebuild the world after Rand

Padan Fain & Shaidar Harnan plot arc's were a disappointment

 

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I thought the book well done except for the end. One thing I didn't get, was if Rand was covered by a Mist of Mirrors looking like Moridin when he road off, or was he actually inhabiting Moridin's body ? If it was the latter then I'm very disappointed. I just don't like the idea of Rand not retaining his original body. Either way, I thought the ending was just too off the wall for me. Sorry RJ. Just not enough contemplation and retrospection. I think that was the trap of having to tailor everything to a pre-writ ending that could not be altered or modified as the book was fully developed and flushed out in order to honor RJ. A mistake. The other very disappointing aspect for me (though consistent with it's own premise established in the books) was I had hoped that the Wheel would be broken and end the depressing cyclic nature of existence destined to repeat itself and all it's horrors of meaningless deaths and lives.

   One other thing I thought lacked was proper homage to Egwene and her sacrifice. Just an off hand mention of a memorial by the Aes Sedai. One of my favorite characters amongst the girls. Very sad to see her die as well as other established names. Never have liked the heroes dying, but I'll admit it is more realistic and dramatic. Invokes more emotions.

This probably sounds awfully negative and I apologize for that. I suppose with all these years of speculations and theorizing, that we all have constructed some vision of "our perfect ending." I think the series was awesome, but I will probably not be able to read it again due to the philosophy of the series not being in accord with my own world view. All & all I thought A Memory of Light a great epic finish except the very end.

Edited by galderon

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I would be interested to hear what everyone thinks about this theory:

 

Shai'tan is the manifestation of consciousness in the True Power derived from Elan/Moridin.

 

The True Power is just the power existing in the void outside the pattern.  The One Power is the power existing within the pattern.  Each is the antithesis of the other and both must exist separate, but in balance with the other for the pattern to exist.

 

When Elan made the bore, he was the first to touch the True Power, went instantly insane from the effect of the power, and his evil consciousness was imprinted on the True Power in the form of Shai'tan.  Both exist together and separate simultaneously, not even fully understanding their interconnectedness.

 

The bore allowed the True Power to touch the pattern.  It created an imbalance that would have destroyed the pattern if allowed to spread.  When Lews Therin sealed the bore, he slowed the effect of the True Power on the pattern, but his seal created by the One Power alone could not permanently hold the True Power since the powers are each other's antithesis.  The pattern created the Dragon Reborn to cure the imbalance.  But Rand could not cure it alone since he represented only the One Power.  Moridin was also required as the representation of the True Power within the pattern.  Thus, Rand and Moridin were linked by the pattern and were both necessary to restore balance.

 

Shai'tan/Moridin wanted to use the True Power to reform the pattern in his image.  Rand wanted to bring peace to the pattern by destroying the True Power.  Both were wrong, the pattern cannot exist without the proper balance, that is why Rand had to destroy the bore, not the True Power.

 

That is why Moridin believed he was Shai'tan---he was to certain extent.

That is why Rand and Moridin affected each other like they did in Shadar Logoth---they represented each other's antithesis.

That is why Moridin was named Nae'blis by Shai'tan---he consciously or unconsciously favored himself.

That is why Moridin was the only one at the bore when Rand arrived---it was their final battle.

That is why Rand and Moridin were both frozen while Rand was touching the bore---they were having a battle of consciousness within the bore.

That is why Rand was affected when Moridin stabbed himself---the proximity to the bore affected their connected much like it did with the Real World and Dream World.

 

Thus, Rand could not destroy the True Power because what he clawed out of the bore was not the True Power, rather Shai'tan (Moridin's consciousness within the True Power).  Rand had to use both powers to destroy the bore, but by leaving Shai'tan on the other side, he removed Moridin from his own consciousness.  That is why Moridin slowly died, the body cannot survive very long without the mind.  However, as Androl and Pevara showed us, consciousness can be transferred between certain people when linked.  The same happened with Rand and Moridin.  Rand was already in Moridin's body as he stumbled out of the bore, and Moridin was in Rand's body.  That is why it was Rand's body that was slowly dying, it was Moridin.

 

Also, while Rand can't channel anymore, it appears that he can still use the new Pure Power that he created by combining Saidin and Saidar by means of thought alone.  Does this mean that anyone can now learn to use the Pure Power?

Edited by Curtis

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Just curious, would people want to see sequels- such as the story of mat+tuon? or would they feel it wrong to write in jordans world?

 

Im personally sad the wot story is over so would welcome more stories.

 

I do get what people are saying about there being lots of fights and relatively little characterization ...however i think weve had 13 books of characterization and already 'know' these people well?

From the moment seanchan went up in flames this is exactly what I wanted. And like someone else said, never say never.

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When Elan made the bore, he was the first to touch the True Power, went instantly insane from the effect of the power, and his evil consciousness was imprinted on the True Power in the form of Shai'tan.  Both exist together and separate simultaneously, not even fully understanding their interconnectedness.

 

Elan Morin Tendronai did not make the bore.  It was Mierin (Lanfear) and another AS called Beidemon while researching at Collan Daam

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I read the book relatively quickly... one of those situations where I almost couldn't turn the pages fast enough, and upon finishing it I was most disappointed with the way that they just killed off Padan Fain off-screen somewhere...

 

...that is, until I was talking to a friend, went back, and realized I had accidentally turned past the page where he and Mat had their little exchange.  /facepalm

 

 

All in all not a perfect book, but I'm grateful for what we have.  Thanks to Brandon Sanderson, Team Jordan, and Tor for doing their best (I know some would disagree, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they did do the best they could) to bring us the conclusion to the Wheel of Time.  I don't know that it was the ending I wanted for a lot of the character's (although I did like Rand's ending), but it was an ending.

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I really want to know what happens to Rand after this but I guess this book series has to end. But I do hope a supplementary book is released though. Nynaeve is one of my fave characters and she kicked A's toward the end of the series helping with major stuff like cleaning saidin and defeating shaitan.

 

I guess rand needed the tp to protect the saidin and saidar used to seal the bore. It kinda makes sense with the saying "opposites attract, like repel".

 

Cadsuane being ropes into becoming Amyrlin was funny though.

 

I really want that supplementary book and see happy endings. Lol

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When Elan made the bore, he was the first to touch the True Power, went instantly insane from the effect of the power, and his evil consciousness was imprinted on the True Power in the form of Shai'tan. Both exist together and separate simultaneously, not even fully understanding their interconnectedness.

Elan Morin Tendronai did not make the bore. It was Mierin (Lanfear) and another AS called Beidemon while researching at Collan Daam

beidomon being moghedien. Fitting end for her like elaida. Yet its worrying to have a forsaken join the ranks of seanchan. If they forced elaida to reveal traveling what about moghedien's knowledge.

 

Book 14.a please? Or a book 15 will do ahaha

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I read the book relatively quickly... one of those situations where I almost couldn't turn the pages fast enough, and upon finishing it I was most disappointed with the way that they just killed off Padan Fain off-screen somewhere...

 

...that is, until I was talking to a friend, went back, and realized I had accidentally turned past the page where he and Mat had their little exchange.  /facepalm

 

 

All in all not a perfect book, but I'm grateful for what we have.  Thanks to Brandon Sanderson, Team Jordan, and Tor for doing their best (I know some would disagree, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they did do the best they could) to bring us the conclusion to the Wheel of Time.  I don't know that it was the ending I wanted for a lot of the character's (although I did like Rand's ending), but it was an ending.

Yeah, that Padan Fain exchange was like the most anticlimactic end to any character every written in the history of language. It was almost like BS finished the book, sent it in, and got a reply from Harriet that he forgot him. So he scribbled a few things down on a post-it note and handed it off to Team Jordan.

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When Elan made the bore, he was the first to touch the True Power, went instantly insane from the effect of the power, and his evil consciousness was imprinted on the True Power in the form of Shai'tan. Both exist together and separate simultaneously, not even fully understanding their interconnectedness.

Elan Morin Tendronai did not make the bore. It was Mierin (Lanfear) and another AS called Beidemon while researching at Collan Daam

beidomon being moghedien. Fitting end for her like elaida. Yet its worrying to have a forsaken join the ranks of seanchan. If they forced elaida to reveal traveling what about moghedien's knowledge.

 

Book 14.a please? Or a book 15 will do ahaha

 

Beidemon is not Moghedian - he was a male.  Also, Moggy was not a researcher, Mesaana was the researcher - who was decline a position at Collan Daam.

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When Elan made the bore, he was the first to touch the True Power, went instantly insane from the effect of the power, and his evil consciousness was imprinted on the True Power in the form of Shai'tan. Both exist together and separate simultaneously, not even fully understanding their interconnectedness.

Elan Morin Tendronai did not make the bore. It was Mierin (Lanfear) and another AS called Beidemon while researching at Collan Daam
beidomon being moghedien. Fitting end for her like elaida. Yet its worrying to have a forsaken join the ranks of seanchan. If they forced elaida to reveal traveling what about moghedien's knowledge.

 

Book 14.a please? Or a book 15 will do ahaha

Beidemon is not Moghedian - he was a male. Also, Moggy was not a researcher, Mesaana was the researcher - who was decline a position at Collan Daam.

sorry for the wrong info. I don't know why it stuck in my head that lanfear and moghieden found the DO prison.

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