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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The "OMG I just finished!" Thread


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I accept your point concerning how far back Rand could see into his previous lives.

And yes I agree killing the DO would have been a very bad idea indeed...this is made clear in the vision shown to Rand. What I was trying to say was that I had simply hoped for a more meaningful end to Rands tale. I had assumed, perhaps wrongly in the 1st place, that there was purpose or point to Rands story outside the usual and expected turnings of the Wheel. That this time would be different from all that had went before in Rands previous lives as the Dragon/Champion. I had assumed we would see perhaps not the DO killed per se, but him being more securely sealed away...perhaps in a way that came at a terrible cost to humanity ie the breaking of the wheel and the cycle of the dragon etc with perhaps the consequence being the loss of channeling and therefore a world that would never again see the paradise that was the Age of Legends? Just an example.

 

I disagree because in my mind everything would have lost all meaning had Rand done such a thing.  To me the beauty is in the Journey.  As an analogy: Yes, I fully expect that Rand (now in Elan's body) will eventually die and grow old.  That is unavoidable.  I knew that starting the series that the main characters were unlikely to turn immortal.  However, I still wanted to hear their story.  I still wanted to know their journey.  It is the same with the turnings of the wheel.  Every turn is somewhat different, and even if you know that the wheel will once again turn someday, it doesn't (to me) make hearing the stories any less worth it.

 

 

Oh please do not mistake me. It will always ever only be about the journey. The world Jordan created from the prophecies to the varying people's, Aes Sedai to the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, the multiple worlds etc etc has captivated me for years. How the series ended has not paled that fact in the slightest. Like I said in my post, I perhaps wrongly assumed that this story was being told because it was in some way unique. But I simply refused to read the words in front of me. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the wheel of time. Rands tale was simply a beginning and as AMoL concludes, an ending.

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//// After though, the one thing that struck me was that I really wish it was longer.  I want another book, following how Randland rebuilds, what happens to the Sharans, how Rand actually manages to stay away from influencing world events, or if he instead does exactly that.  I want another book all about the First Age, all about the Fifth Age, all about how in the Sixth Age Amerasu is reborn and does this and that and this.  I want to hear the stories of all the Heroes of the Horn.  

 

Same here we will see what will be in encyklopedie

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Finished yesterday, and have let things percolate for a time. I would say I kinda liked the final book. But here is my question: We were told way back in the early 90's that the author wrote the story with the end in mind. What part of this last book was the "end" he had in mind? Nothing really stands out as a starting point to create this whole story. Is it just the final lines - there is no ending, but it is an ending. Is it the main character walking away with full control of everything and walking the earth? 

 

I never put a lot of thought into what that end would be, but I expected something a bit more epic from RJ. 14 books, 12000 pages of high fantasy often reaching greatness. All based, we were told, on a seed that grew from an ending. So I guess I found the ending underwhelming, or at best just whelming.

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I am feeling a bit sad for not having post Last-Battle chapters for Mat, Perrin and the others.

 

However, I am typing this post to address the thing said few posts above me that Rand letting the Wheel turn again in repetitive cycles is bad. It isn't bad from a certain viewpoints.

 

1. As someone mentioned, it's Wheel of Time, it should be cycle of Ages, repeating themselves.

 

2. I think the end intended to show us that The Dragon won many times in the past, but every time the truth that the world wouldn't be good place to live without the Dark One made him to choose to let the Wheel turns and let the people love, care, struggle and such, in a repetitive cycle, but in the same time every new Age heroes are born, love is born and people are fighting for good and bad. This is the world the Dragon Reborn is fighting for after all.

 

3. The best thing about Rand letting the Dark One be, is that I can imagine that every time I reread the series from now on, that I just read new story. That every Third Age the same things happens and that reread isn't just reading the books I once readed, but instead every my new rereading will be to follow story, which is new for every Third Age, the same things happens, but the characters live trought them again, and so do I. :)

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I accept your point concerning how far back Rand could see into his previous lives.

And yes I agree killing the DO would have been a very bad idea indeed...this is made clear in the vision shown to Rand. What I was trying to say was that I had simply hoped for a more meaningful end to Rands tale. I had assumed, perhaps wrongly in the 1st place, that there was purpose or point to Rands story outside the usual and expected turnings of the Wheel. That this time would be different from all that had went before in Rands previous lives as the Dragon/Champion. I had assumed we would see perhaps not the DO killed per se, but him being more securely sealed away...perhaps in a way that came at a terrible cost to humanity ie the breaking of the wheel and the cycle of the dragon etc with perhaps the consequence being the loss of channeling and therefore a world that would never again see the paradise that was the Age of Legends? Just an example.

 

 

I disagree because in my mind everything would have lost all meaning had Rand done such a thing.  To me the beauty is in the Journey.  As an analogy: Yes, I fully expect that Rand (now in Elan's body) will eventually die and grow old.  That is unavoidable.  I knew that starting the series that the main characters were unlikely to turn immortal.  However, I still wanted to hear their story.  I still wanted to know their journey.  It is the same with the turnings of the wheel.  Every turn is somewhat different, and even if you know that the wheel will once again turn someday, it doesn't (to me) make hearing the stories any less worth it.

 

 

Oh please do not mistake me. It will always ever only be about the journey. The world Jordan created from the prophecies to the varying people's, Aes Sedai to the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, the multiple worlds etc etc has captivated me for years. How the series ended has not paled that fact in the slightest. Like I said in my post, I perhaps wrongly assumed that this story was being told because it was in some way unique. But I simply refused to read the words in front of me. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the wheel of time. Rands tale was simply a beginning and as AMoL concludes, an ending.

 

Well stated.  I understand where you are coming from.

 

 

//// After though, the one thing that struck me was that I really wish it was longer.  I want another book, following how Randland rebuilds, what happens to the Sharans, how Rand actually manages to stay away from influencing world events, or if he instead does exactly that.  I want another book all about the First Age, all about the Fifth Age, all about how in the Sixth Age Amerasu is reborn and does this and that and this.  I want to hear the stories of all the Heroes of the Horn.  

 

Same here we will see what will be in encyklopedie

 

Something new to look forward to!

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I accept your point concerning how far back Rand could see into his previous lives.

And yes I agree killing the DO would have been a very bad idea indeed...this is made clear in the vision shown to Rand. What I was trying to say was that I had simply hoped for a more meaningful end to Rands tale. I had assumed, perhaps wrongly in the 1st place, that there was purpose or point to Rands story outside the usual and expected turnings of the Wheel. That this time would be different from all that had went before in Rands previous lives as the Dragon/Champion. I had assumed we would see perhaps not the DO killed per se, but him being more securely sealed away...perhaps in a way that came at a terrible cost to humanity ie the breaking of the wheel and the cycle of the dragon etc with perhaps the consequence being the loss of channeling and therefore a world that would never again see the paradise that was the Age of Legends? Just an example.

 

 

I disagree because in my mind everything would have lost all meaning had Rand done such a thing.  To me the beauty is in the Journey.  As an analogy: Yes, I fully expect that Rand (now in Elan's body) will eventually die and grow old.  That is unavoidable.  I knew that starting the series that the main characters were unlikely to turn immortal.  However, I still wanted to hear their story.  I still wanted to know their journey.  It is the same with the turnings of the wheel.  Every turn is somewhat different, and even if you know that the wheel will once again turn someday, it doesn't (to me) make hearing the stories any less worth it.

 

 

Oh please do not mistake me. It will always ever only be about the journey. The world Jordan created from the prophecies to the varying people's, Aes Sedai to the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, the multiple worlds etc etc has captivated me for years. How the series ended has not paled that fact in the slightest. Like I said in my post, I perhaps wrongly assumed that this story was being told because it was in some way unique. But I simply refused to read the words in front of me. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the wheel of time. Rands tale was simply a beginning and as AMoL concludes, an ending.

 

Well stated.  I understand where you are coming from.

 

//// After though, the one thing that struck me was that I really wish it was longer.  I want another book, following how Randland rebuilds, what happens to the Sharans, how Rand actually manages to stay away from influencing world events, or if he instead does exactly that.  I want another book all about the First Age, all about the Fifth Age, all about how in the Sixth Age Amerasu is reborn and does this and that and this.  I want to hear the stories of all the Heroes of the Horn.  

 

Same here we will see what will be in encyklopedie

 

Something new to look forward to!

 

I hope they will explain all prophecies

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Has anything been said about the encyclopedia containing things that weren't in the books? I imagine it will be mostly just that which you could glean from reading the series, unless otherwise stated.

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I finished it after a red eyed marathon read :)

 

Excellent , no major gripes here

 

there were a few woah/yeahh! moments

 

The top generals being subverted was an interesting  twist as were the Sharans appearing.

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Has anything been said about the encyclopedia containing things that weren't in the books? I imagine it will be mostly just that which you could glean from reading the series, unless otherwise stated.

As I say I hope there will be more  + all prophecies was in books but for me it mean something like memento when this prophecy happen...

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I laughed. I cried. I hurled...seriously I had food poisoning but I couldn't not read. I'm happy to be at the end of a journey that, for me, began almost 20 years ago in 1993. Although I wish, as everyone does, that Robert Jordan had been able to finish his masterpiece, I believe Brandon Sanderson deserves a great thanks. Completing a beloved and complex fantasy series such as this is a daunting task, and one he had to know who cause him to be hated by some people no matter what he did. Given that, the job he did was excellent. Honestly, there is too much I want to talk about the book to even discuss on a forum, I need to go hunt down friends of mine who also read  it to talk with face to face lol. However, I did have one thought that I wondered what people would think about.

Considering the fact that the Wheel of Time has already become the work of multiple authors, and how many stories there are left to tell, what would people think of an "extended universe" series of books in the vein of the Star Wars extended universe novels?
 

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Considering the fact that the Wheel of Time has already become the work of multiple authors, and how many stories there are left to tell, what would people think of an "extended universe" series of books in the vein of the Star Wars extended universe novels?

 

 

No. *shudders*

 

Just no. I'm glad to see Jordan's primary series finished, but it's time to let it rest. I don't care what author is picked.

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Considering the fact that the Wheel of Time has already become the work of multiple authors, and how many stories there are left to tell, what would people think of an "extended universe" series of books in the vein of the Star Wars extended universe novels?

 

This has been discussed in other places but RJ was very against any "shared world" scenario. He was the Creator and we need to respect his wishes. Team Jordan has already said they will not happen and that is certainly best for the WoT legacy. It would be an an absoluet nightmare if the WoT devolved to the type of poorly written novels you see in those Star Wars type series.

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Finished Sunday morning. I was unable to do anything on sunday besides dwell on it. such a great ending to a epic series. as many commentators have said, finishing is bittersweet. It reminded me of the feeling you get when you move. You're excited and happy about the next step, and glad that it's happening, but at the same time you're leaving friends behind. You know they'll be there when you need them (or want to read them in this case), but it will never truly be the same. it's closing a chapter on your life. 

well that's what it felt like to me at least. great to finish the series, but disappointed I won't get to read anything new on these characters that we've come to know so well. 

kudos to sanderson on a job well done. that was a daunting task for anyone. I thought he did a great job. AMOL is fast-paced and lots of battle. but take the last 3 books together, as one 2,000 page behemoth (and as Jordan intended it), and the ending was everything I needed.

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I must say, I don't know what to make of the book.  Honestly.  I feel somewhat unsatisfied with the ending even though I understand the motivation, but I'll get to that in a bit...Fair warning: this is a rant....I gather that is the nature of this thread...so, it might be "TL;DR"

 

<rant>

 

As a military man, I liked the battle scenes, especially the detail put forth in the planning and execution.  The gods-eye-view gateways? Brilliant!  Androl's use of gateways to fight?  Innovative and astounding.  Interestingly, I was upset with Gawyn's death...until Egwene sacrificed herself.  In my mind, that made sense: in one move, we see a near-exact echo of her Manetheren roots as well as a pseudo-antithesis to the origination of Dragonmount, in the shadow of which stands the White Tower and the Flame of Tar Valon.  Interesting choice of plot device, but not at all disappointing.  At one point, however, (about when we thought Lan had died) I started chuckling, wondering if Brandon was trying to compete with G.R.R. Martin in terms of how many characters he could kill off in one book.

 

I've read a couple of folks mentioning the slap-dash pace of the book.  Eh.  I didn't mind it. Even though the chapters bounced around (which destroyed my ability to guess what the chapter was about my interpreting the graphic under the number....) it reflected the pace, chaos, and uncertainty of war.  While I generally do not like books written that way, I feel that it was appropriate for this telling.

 

Demandred?  Here I start drifting.  Every prophecy known to every person in every book says that Rand will be directly fighting the DO.  So...yeah...you marching around the field screaming for him...that's gonna do alot.  After all the books set up the Forsaken as scheming, manipulative, contentious, evil entities with various, but explicit, interpretations about the prophecies, Demandred's character was flattened into a glossed-up fool blowing stuff up on the battlefield, yelling for someone that he SHOULD know isn't there.  There is an implication, from the POV of M'Hael (*cough* useless *cough*) that something was "wrong" with Demandred, but that's it.  I think that Demandred was a predictable and boring plot element.

 

Logain?  I start drifting more.  Did anyone else see dark-angsty-early-Rand v2.0?  Really?  Are we going to do this...again?  We get some explaination that the attempted Turning had done something to him...and we get some resolution before he breaks the seals.  But the "I'm going to do what I THINK is good by getting revenge on how I was wronged" horse was dead, beaten, and finally buried with Rand on the top of Dragonmount.  We don't need to exhume the corpse and continue whacking it with a stick.

 

I was back on-board with the rest of the battle, though I would've liked to have known more back-story with Fain.  While his appearance, and method of doing so, made sense, it came out of nowhere.

 

Defeating the DO?  Exquisite!  Realizing that "good" without the choice between good and evil is meaningless and that the DO isn't merely an embodiment of evil in the moral sense, but also the antithesis of everything that is human: love, hope, free will...Spot on!  To have love, you must have an understanding of loss.  To have hope, you must have dispair.

 

Ending.......As a father of a young child, I hated it.  We spend how many books explaining that Rand's Two Rivers roots raised him as a stubborn, but fundamentally good and responsible man?  Only at the end, to have him be like "Yay I'm alive!  Which one of the MOTHERS OF MY CHILDREN will follow me!!!  HAHAHA ROFL TTYL CYA!"  Um dude, you have like...6 kids on the way.  After all of your b******* about "not having a real father" and "not knowing where you belong" sack up, grow a pair, and take responsibility.  I know that he can't let his shadow (not Shadow) influence the world, but galavanting off as a wanderer?  not cool dude.....

 

The pipe?  It was amusing, but frustratingly so.  An unnecessary, and I think childish, cliffhanger element, like you'd see at the end of a TV episode.  It actually reminded me of the end of X-men 3 (I think), where we see the "defeated" Magneto sitting at the chess board and *gasp* he makes the chess piece wiggle!!!! DUN DUN DUN!!!!  Except unlike the movie, we KNOW that there isn't going to be another book...so after answering SO many questions (either satisfactorily or unsatisfactorily, depending on your own reading) why the last-minute element?  *shakes head*

 

</rant>

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Just finished...Whew!  Satisfied.

 

Mat/Fain=  Clunky.  Needed at least one chapter, paragraph, sentence, something prior to that last scene

Perrin/Faile=  Meh.  Perrin's last scene should have been in Mayene, where he finds Faile and Galad both dead.  His POV ends with him crying in Berelain's arms...

Noal/Olver=  Most emotional scene.

Tam=  Very well done.

Birgitte=  Yay!  Happy ending!

Moiraine=  OK.  Book not big enough to do her justice

Rand's time in SG=  Well done.

 

Overall, strong work.  An enormous undertaking.  I could quibble, but I won't.  I'll just send a heart felt and meaningful "Thank you" to Harriet and Brandon.

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Just finished. I had to hold myself to the weekend in order to not interfere with work.

 

Blood and Bloody Ashes! That Last Battle was a nearly 200 page long chapter!

 

I'll have to admit that I felt a little for Demandred. What?! Another one?! :wink:

 

I'm going to have to reread, but I'll wait a little.

 

Would anyone be interested in pulling together the timeline of the Last Battle and doing a

play at JordanCon? I think it would be cool to really feel the concurrency of what was

going on.

 

In the end, I'm sorry there's not more, but I'd like to thank Harriet for finding Brandon

and giving the fans Robert's full vision.

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I finished the book yesterday morning after I got off work, and all I could do for several hours after that was lay in my bed and dwell on it all. WoT has been in my life for years now, 11 or so, and for it finally to be coming to an end is very bitter-sweet. Even now, I still have that feeling of dread/closure as I sit here and type this tonight at my work. I want to thank Brandon for undertaking such a daunting task and bringing us the ending that we fans so thirsted for. I had imagined it ending differently, but I'm also satisfied with how everything unfolded. I shared rougish grins with Mat, cheered for Perrin when he'd finally crushed Slayer, and cried as Tam set Rand's pyre to flame. I was eager to come to this point, the ending, but now that I've reached it I find myself having a sense of loss. I knew it was inevitable, but I felt a chapter of my life has literally ended. I found the books as a middle schooler and over the years as I read them, I grew with these characters. I came to love and care for them, and now I'm saying goodbye to old friends. It isn't a sad goodbye, necessarily, but one I wish I didn't have to make.

 

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The Olver- Noal scene was the best one in the entire book. Couldn`t have been done better.

 

Damn shame about Egwene too. She wasn`t my favorite, but she was in it from the very beginning. Great character development.

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Finally finished tonight. Can't believe it's over. Overall, it felt good, though I wanted so much more resolution of plotlines that have been theorized about over the years, e.g. The Song, etc.

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Throw in the jarring modern words that ruin immersion and well you can see.

 

While I do not agree with many of the things you posted, I want to address this one....

 

There were only 2 words that actually had this effect on me - arabesque and surgeon. I must admit that both of those words DID hamper my immersion. However, I cannot blame that on Sanderson himself. Overall, I think he did a tremendous job with the 3 books. I place the blame for those 2 words on the editor and the 2 research assistants he had at his disposal. Those words should have been changed by either Harriet or even the editors/proofreaders employed by Tor

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Anyone else really in shock now that it's over? I don't think it really hit me that this is the end until the day after I finished. I've been reading and following these books for so long that the thought of there never being any more is hard to get my mind around. 

 

 

 

Same here. For me the next Wheel of Time book has always been a thing to really look forward to, a beacon in the night... But now that its over its like something really special has been taken from me and I feel empty.. We all have been bonded to the series for so long and now its been severed... I'm satisfied and happy with the end, but was just expecting a bit more on the aftermath.. I was expecting a small snippet by RJ on how and where the main characters would be after say 10 years, but I guess he wanted to leave that to interpretation...

 

I really hope there is a TV series because I just can't imagine the end to the Wheel of Time... Its become a part of me now

 

 

 

Yes, it's part of me too and I think we can keep it there by re-reads and participating here. I'd love a pre-quel bout the 20 years where Moiraine and Lan were searching for Rand. I can only hope.

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I think the book, on the whole, gave me what I needed and even some of what I most wanted--it was incredibly fast-paced, you felt the sense of the "whole world being balanced on the edge of a blade" and the costs associated with victory. In addition to being more continuously gripping than any other WoT book, it was also funny--I actually laughed out loud once or twice while reading it, because the gallow's humor was really well-done.

 

But generally, I think the first three-quarters of the book or so--right through Chapter 37--were much better than the final stretch, where all at once it becomes clear that there were just too many balls in the air. "Oh, yeah, I have to deal with Padan Fain (and bizarrely give him a new name at this stage?)" and "Whoops, the entire book later, and there's still the same fight with Slayer to be had" and finally killing pretty much all the Forsaken at once, at the end. 

 

Not to mention it's ridiculous to think that *all* of the Sharans would sign on, and no one would break ranks, when fighting alongside Trollocs, but that's a different point.

 

But I'm kind of mad, because I think the last bit in the ending is kind of silly and tends to undermine the meaning of the whole series. The series seems to be about *choice* and *obligation*--about choosing to meet your obligation or not, basically. The good characters make the choice to do the difficult, right thing. But at the end, Rand, who has two children on the way, a father, a brother, etc., gallivants off to sight-see! I don't forgive him for not telling Tam he's alive. That line earlier in the book, about how Tam had grown into the void in all those years without Kari, and while teaching Rand responsibility... 

 

The ending we got for Rand was a fine ending for Jack Sparrow at the end of the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy. He was always a clown and a loner, so he could go off and have more adventures and we felt great about it. But that is not Rand al'Thor. People *need* him, and even if he weren't willing to "stay" as the Dragon Reborn, creating a new identity for himself through which he could be there for his loved ones was the right thing to do. The ending seems like running away, and it seems easy, and it doesn't seem in character.

 

Sorry, I'm finding it kind of hard to live with.

some of the sharons probally did break ranks. they didn't show what demanded did over their.

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OMG, I just finished =)

 

Well, a lot has been mentioned before, but here are my thoughts. All in all I liked it, but a few things bother me.

 

a) How did they figure out how to use Callandor. Min's role in this has been on stage for so long and to have the final pieze of the puzze off stage was really, really disappointing. Anti-climactic.

 

b) The body swap. When did it happen? How did it happen? They were dying together in the tent, but suddenly one was dead and one alive and kicking? All the soulmigrations we have been shown have happend after the person dies. Does that mean that they really did die and then someone (The Creator?) migrated Rands soul into Moridins body? Or did it happen in the fight, and if so why would Moridin carry Rand out of the cavern? Or did it happen just as he came out? Did Nakomi do it? And again, if they both were dying, what is "Nwe Rand" suddenly up and kickin? Too many questions to something that really should have been explained a little more. Else it would have been better to leave him dead.

 

c) Lighting the pipe. WTF was that all about? If his sould was migrated into a new body, shouldn't he still have his ability to channel? It is connected to the soul isn't it? And why is he suddenly Neo, who can make anything happen by wish. Weird.

 

d) Over all, even if it was the Last Battle, wasn't there a bit too much of the fighting? Som eof that space could have been used for other means, things that just "happened" or were mentioned as an aside.

 

Oh well,it was not the perfect ending, but it was A ending.

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