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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Is Alanna a darkfriend?


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I mean she was working with Verin for a long time in the Two Rivers n we later learn her allegience and the advantage of bonding Rand to learn where he is would have been a huge advantage. Plus, it would explain her odd behaviour when linked to the dragon.

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As of the end of ToM, there's no way to say if she is Black Ajah. 

 

She doesn't appear on Verin's list of Black Ajah, however, that could be intentional on Verin's part, since she is bonded to Rand, killing her would be a bad idea. Telling Rand would also be a bad idea, since last time she saw him he was quite mad, and might do something stupid like kill her himself. 

 

As for the rest - there is more of Alanna to come. 

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Never thought of her as a DF. She was a fiery, emotional green, fresh from losing one of her warders when she met Rand in Caemlyn. She was a piece of the pattern Rand needed. He needed the bonuses of the Warder bond. Alanna's "crime" gave Rand a very important gift. The negative consequences of Alanna's bond are almost negligible compared to the advantages of the bond on Rand.

 

One of my favorite scenes is reading Alanna and Rand in Far Madding. Just loved "let us serve you, man!" Just loved it!  

Edited by Theodril
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The advantages don't change the fact that she did not get Rand's permission to bond him, against custom and Tower law. It may have had positive consequences, but it also had a negative consequence - he could not take an Aes Sedai advisor into his trust anymore (which would have been hard enough as it is).

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Never thought of her as a DF. She was a fiery, emotional green, fresh from losing one of her warders when she met Rand in Caemlyn. She was a piece of the pattern Rand needed. He needed the bonuses of the Warder bond. Alanna's "crime" gave Rand a very important gift. The negative consequences of Alanna's bond are almost negligible compared to the advantages of the bond on Rand.

 

One of my favorite scenes is reading Alanna and Rand in Far Madding. Just loved "let us serve you, man!" Just loved it!  

Were there any scenes where Rand actually survived because of the Warder bond? i.e. he would have died if Alanna hadn't bonded him?  

 

I think the negative consequences were pretty serious.  Like jedman67 says, Alanna's forced bonding was one of the major factor (possibly the most important factor other than Elaida's kidnapping) which led to his distrust of AS, and his distrust of people in general.

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The advantages don't change the fact that she did not get Rand's permission to bond him, against custom and Tower law. It may have had positive consequences, but it also had a negative consequence - he could not take an Aes Sedai advisor into his trust anymore (which would have been hard enough as it is).

 

He took Cadsuane as his adviser after the bond; and his mistrust was based on AS tendency to manipulate more than advise. Rand's issue with trusting ppl goes beyond Alanna's rape bonding. 

 

The positives of the Warder Bond on Rand were not listed specifically; but they were there and may have helped him survive the numerous ordeals and near - death situations he was in. More stamina, quicker healing, need less rest, etc .... 

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He took Cadsuane as his adviser after the bond; and his mistrust was based on AS tendency to manipulate more than advise. Rand's issue with trusting ppl goes beyond Alanna's rape bonding. 

He only took Cadsuane as his advisor because of her Viewing - nothing to do with trusting her.  I think there is a scene in WH where he is so frustrated with her that he almost decides not to bother with her any more until Min reminds him of her Viewing.

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He took Cadsuane as his adviser after the bond; and his mistrust was based on AS tendency to manipulate more than advise. Rand's issue with trusting ppl goes beyond Alanna's rape bonding.

He only took Cadsuane as his advisor because of her Viewing - nothing to do with trusting her. I think there is a scene in WH where he is so frustrated with her that he almost decides not to bother with her any more until Min reminds him of her Viewing.

Saying it was only because of Min's viewing greatly simplifies the issue. There is a small portion of the fandom that has always placed too great an emphasis on that.

Edited by Suttree
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and she gets to be beloved by the fandom even though she doesn't say a single affable thing to him.

 

Gdod she frustrates me to no end. Semirhagge could've at least given her the once over for me. (to my knowledge she's the only female in the series who doesn't get brutalized at some point)

 

Is it really so impossible to be no nonsense and ALSO exchange friendly dialogue with someone?

Edited by EmperorAllspice
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He took Cadsuane as his adviser after the bond; and his mistrust was based on AS tendency to manipulate more than advise. Rand's issue with trusting ppl goes beyond Alanna's rape bonding.

He only took Cadsuane as his advisor because of her Viewing - nothing to do with trusting her. I think there is a scene in WH where he is so frustrated with her that he almost decides not to bother with her any more until Min reminds him of her Viewing.

Saying it was only because of Min's viewing greatly simplifies the issue. There is a small portion of the fandom that has always placed too great an emphasis on that.

 

Well, I believe it was pretty important, and there are in text references that support that view point, e.g. the scene in WH where Rand is ready to get rid of Cadsuane until Min reminds him of her viewing.  I don't think its the whole reason, but I think its a big part of it,

 

In terms of its relevance to the topic, perhaps it would have been better for me to phrase my statement more along the lines that I doubt Alanna's bonding of Rand made Cadsuane's job any easier.  It was a horrendous thing to do to him without his permission and I don't see how it wouldn't make him distrustful of Aes Sedai.

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He's lucky that the magic system in WOT was contrived enough to keep him from being compelled by that bond.

 

What do you mean by that?

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Compulsion via bonding doesn't work on male chanelers.

 

Oh, it works on women chanelers though.

 

Sorry I'm just bitter.

 

I get the "point", I just hate it when no reason is given. I like reasons. I like knowing why something works the way it does.

Edited by EmperorAllspice
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Compulsion via bonding doesn't work on male chanelers.

 

Oh, it works on women chanelers though.

Not true, it has nothing to do with female and male channelers. It has to do with using different weaves for the bond. Ashaman have experimented with the process and found out how to do that "extra bit" with thought compulsion. AS being much more conservative only know the one kind(where they need to weave spirit to compel a warder and it is hard to control a strong channeler).

 

That said AS could work out how to do that type of bond and it's even brought up as a possibility at one point.

 

 

Interview: Jan 28th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Lady Voldemort (Paraphrased)

Lady Voldemort

Is it possible for an Aes Sedai to bond someone Asha'man style?

Robert Jordan

Yes, if they learned the weaves. The Asha'man know a lot more about bonding than the Aes Sedai. Some guy figured out how to bond their wives, and then they started concentrating on other things they could do with the bond. The Aes Sedai never experimented, just passed on what they knew.

Edited by Suttree
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Compulsion via bonding doesn't work on male chanelers.

 

Oh, it works on women chanelers though.

Not true, it has nothing to do with female and male channelers. It has to do with using different weaves for the bond. Ashaman have experimented with the process and found out how to do that "extra bit" with thought compulsion. AS being much more conservative only know the one kind(where they need to weave spirit to compel a warder and it is hard to control a strong channeler).

 

That said AS could work out how to do that type of bond and it's even brought up as a possibility at one point.

 

 

Interview: Jan 28th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Lady Voldemort (Paraphrased)

Lady Voldemort

Is it possible for an Aes Sedai to bond someone Asha'man style?

Robert Jordan

Yes, if they learned the weaves. The Asha'man know a lot more about bonding than the Aes Sedai. Some guy figured out how to bond their wives, and then they started concentrating on other things they could do with the bond. The Aes Sedai never experimented, just passed on what they knew.

 

Experimented on... who, exactly?

 

Their wives?

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I recall them mentioning tweaking the bond. Egwene is disgusted and flat out calls it compulsion. I just didn't know why it didn't work on Rand at all. Not even a mention of something trying to affect his brain that he had to squash down.

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I thought it was a matter of willpower.  Myrelle mentioned needing to only use a bit of Spirit when trying to Compel Lan to come meet Nisao, because if she had been too heavy-handed (as I'm sure Alanna was.  She's not exactly subtle...), Lan would've known and ...done...something...

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I thought it was a matter of willpower.  Myrelle mentioned needing to only use a bit of Spirit when trying to Compel Lan to come meet Nisao, because if she had been too heavy-handed (as I'm sure Alanna was.  She's not exactly subtle...), Lan would've known and ...done...something...

 

 AS can compel any non channeling warder they want with the spirit weave.

 

RJ

Although use of the bond in that way (controlling) was not unknown in the past, it came to be regarded as a form of Compulsion to use it so except in the slightest forms. Besides, using the bond to control a Warder all the time is a lot of work. An Aes Sedai wants somebody who can watch her back and keep it safe, not somebody she has to work on all the time. (Which is one of the reasons Aes Sedai stopped bonding men against their will. Not ethical concerns or ethical growth, I'm afraid; it was just not very practical really.) Better simply to release the fellow who can't measure up and find another who will.

 

As for channeler strength playing a role.

 

RJ

A very strong male channeler bonded to a very weak Aes Sedai could not use the bond to control her. Whoever holds the bond is in charge, though she might have a hard time controlling him.

 

@Emperor

 

It appears that is the case...creepy.

 

Edited by Suttree
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Compulsion via bonding doesn't work on male chanelers.

 

Oh, it works on women chanelers though.

 

Sorry I'm just bitter.

 

I get the "point", I just hate it when no reason is given. I like reasons. I like knowing why something works the way it does.

Actually, Compulsion at all doesn't work on men who are holding the Source - it's not specifically Compulsion through the bond, and they have to be holding the Source for it to work. As for why, possibly something to do with saidin, and the way men need to fight it, and strive for control - not really a mindset which is conducive to Compulsion.

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The bond Logain used is Warder+Compulsion, while an AS is forbidden to use such a thing, so she doesn't. However, the bond does leave the warder vulnerable to some form of compulsion through the bond, i.e. the weave of spirit myrelle used to have Lan come to her

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Sorry. The whole Ash'aman bonding thing really skeeves me out and makes it really hard for me to sympathize with Logain

what would you have him done differently? despite being an Asha'man, he was still subordinate to Taim, and was following his orders. The Compulsion was not "heavy", for all intents and purposes it was like an Oath to obey him more than Compulsion proper.

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Sorry. The whole Ash'aman bonding thing really skeeves me out and makes it really hard for me to sympathize with Logain

what would you have him done differently? despite being an Asha'man, he was still subordinate to Taim, and was following his orders. The Compulsion was not "heavy", for all intents and purposes it was like an Oath to obey him more than Compulsion proper.

 

 

I think he was referring at least in part to the "experimenting" on their wives.

 

As for the rest I would call being able to compel with a thought pretty heavy. That said per RJ the asha'man feel that part is very necessary for the time being.

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