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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

"This character dies." -Harriet McDougal-


"This character dies" -Harriet McDougal  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Which character's death did Harriet insist upon?

    • Egwene
      10
    • Gawyn
      0
    • Siuan
      3
    • Gareth Bryne
      0
    • Davrem Bashere
      1
    • Rhurac
      1
    • Hurin
      0
    • Bela
      41


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  • 2 weeks later...

Whoever killed Egwene, some major character needed to do. For 14 books, only the bad guys die, not counting Moraine. Though I'm not sure if people knew before the letter that she was coming back. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Elayne, Min, Aviendha all had get out of jail free cards. I only wish Egwene had been the G.R.R.M. moment

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I generally tend to sympathize with the main characters surviving, at least to close to the end.  RJ had created this rich cast of characters, and most of them had very specific parts to play in the story.  When you're writing, one of the most difficult things to do is flesh out characters, and once you start killing them off, you generally have to then make MORE characters.

 

GRRM does this masterfully, but few other authors that I've read do.  Many times the "reserves" are thinner all around as characters.  As for bad guys getting killde off, well, there's generally more of them to start with, and many times their sole role is to be a character shaping tool for one of the protagonists.  Once that role is done, it's curtains for them.

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I generally tend to sympathize with the main characters surviving, at least to close to the end.  RJ had created this rich cast of characters, and most of them had very specific parts to play in the story.  When you're writing, one of the most difficult things to do is flesh out characters, and once you start killing them off, you generally have to then make MORE characters.

 

GRRM does this masterfully, but few other authors that I've read do.  Many times the "reserves" are thinner all around as characters.  As for bad guys getting killde off, well, there's generally more of them to start with, and many times their sole role is to be a character shaping tool for one of the protagonists.  Once that role is done, it's curtains for them.

 

l generally agree with this and I really don't have a problem with the majority of the main characters surviving.  Especially since there were some pretty heart wrenching secondary character deaths such and Suian, Rhuarc, Davrem, Hurin.  Granted I would have preferred if the latter two had had actual death scenes instead of just being mentioned in passing but these were all characters who I like and it was hard to see them go.  There are, however, two other main characters who I thought should have died.  Its not that I dislike these characters, in fact I like both of these characters very much.  I just feel that their deaths would have served the story well.

 

The first is Perrin.  While a lot of people came to dislike Perrin as the story went on I was not one of them.  Perrin started out strong and finished strong, he had some dark moments in the middle and did some things that I disagree with, but still I remained confident that he would see the error of his ways and would eventually do the right thing, and this faith payed off.   None the less, given that there was so much emphasis on Perrin needing to be there for Rand at least twice of Rand would fail I really thought that Perrin should have ended up sacrificing himself to save Rand.  I think the whole point of Perrin's obsession with Faile even too the point of being distracted from his mission for Rand was to instill the reader with the fear that Perrin just might not be there for Rand at one of these crucial times.  Thus, I think Perrin actually sacraficing his own life for Rand would have provided a much better pay off and would have added a nice twist to necessity of him being there for Rand.

 

The second is Lan.  Now while I ultimately felt that Lan's death would have served the story well there is one caveat, throughout the entire story I was pulling for Lan to survive the last battle mainly because his death seemed so obvious.  The irony of Lan was that he was that he had a serious death wish, but was just too good at what he did to allow anyone to ever fulfill it.  So while I had been pulling for Lan to not only survive TG but also find a reason to go on living (which he did), when it came down to the final chapters I found myself wanting Lan to die.  Lan was arguably the greatest swordsman of the 3rd age.  No matter how many battles he entered no one, no matter how skilled, could ever best him (And while it was never tested I'm willing to bet that he could have even taken out a farmer with a staff).  Therefore, when he donned the foxhead medallion and road forth to face a man who had recently defeated two of The Light's greatest swordsman and one of its most powerful channelers I knew were in for something huge.  Indeed in his battle with Demandred Lan finally found his equal and realizing that this was the one opponent he could not defeat with the sword he realized that the only way to take him out was to make the ultimate sacrifice and sheath the sword.  When this happened I thought "now that is the perfect end for Lan."  But then what happened?  Lan ends up surviving sheathing.  To me this cheapened not Lan's sacrifice but also the entire concept of sheathing itself.  Sheathing just always seemed like the ultimate act of self sacrifice and no one should ever survive it. 

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I think Egwene's death and Cadsuane becoming Amyrlin is pretty much situable end of the White Tower arc, considering the post LB life in Randland. Thinking about it, Egwene's character was pretty much white and black viewpoints of herself, of others and of the surrounding world. She have been wounded by Seanchan, she couldn't forgive them, nor forgive what they have done to her, whatever she could do the keep the Dragon Peace, to cope with Seanchan, it would have been corrupted by her past experiences with them. She have too high opinion of herself, too high opinion of her opinion if you want and she isn't prompt to compromises. She always tried to be subtle and taking the best decisions, but in the end her moves were always too bold and centered around her understanding of the world. So I don't thing she would have been good co-operator for the Seanchan matter. 

 

Cadsuane on other side... she always have firm beliefs and opinion. But she also have lived 20 times more years than Egwene, encountered a lot of things during that time. And most importantly, she had time to learn to be firm in a way that is not ugly and self-centered, but in a way that makes every deal you make with hear valuable. Think about it - Tuon had hard times arguing with Rand and mistress Anan. Because they are both very experienced and wise themselves. But Cadsuane have a way to channel her experience so that others can be fully aware of it, in a way that makes others see the things as Cadsuane wants them to be seen, but without forcing it to them - she just acts in a way that reinforces her image of the things upon others. Tuon and Egwene take their mental power from their status - Empress and Amyrlin. Rand and Cadsuane take their mental power from their mental power and rich experience and knowedge, they don't need titles and power to be heard. They have natural power to understand the things and to make others understand them too. That's why Cadsuane is more appropriate for the Amyrlin seat in the 4th Age. Because she can make Fortuona see the things as she thinks they should be seen, not because she is Amyrlin and very confident in herself, but because she knows how the things are based on the way "It's not a question of who will believe me, it's a question of who can call the my truth false.

 

If Fortuona is in one room with Rand, Cadsuane and Soriela, she would have hard time not to agree with everything they would want from her. But in my opinion she would be better suited to guard her points of view than Egwene. It's just the inner power of those three that makes them so suited to lead, compared to Fortuone and Egwene.

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  • 3 years later...

Whoever killed Egwene, some major character needed to do. For 14 books, only the bad guys die, not counting Moraine. Though I'm not sure if people knew before the letter that she was coming back. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Elayne, Min, Aviendha all had get out of jail free cards. I only wish Egwene had been the G.R.R.M. moment

There were plenty of 2nd and 3rd tier characters to kill off, I dont see the need to kill off a major character at all. I only see that desire as a result

of G.R.R. Martin's books and his obsessive need to kill off anyone that people began to care about. There was no need in my opinion to follow his

example.

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I for one went into a panic when it looked like Lan died to Demandred. All I could see was Rand failing had that happened, since Nynaeve was concentrating on keeping Alanna alive, since she was severely injured and slowly dying as the story progressed. When he stood up I actually had tears of joy in my eyes from the relief.

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I always felt that Rand made that happen.  It felt like Rand seized that moment and rubbed it in the DO's face.  There was a spark of life left in Lan and Rand wove creation, possibly the first that had an effect on the real world and maybe gave Lan the strength to live, to rise and hold up D's head.  I mean...warder bond and all of Lan's badassery aside he'd just rammed himself onto a sword.  That's got to take the wind out of someone's sails.  The second instance of Rand weaving creation itself was when he lit his pipe which left the big question of where that came from and what it means.  

 

Of course another explanation might be his mild awareness of Nynaeve, and seeing her not showing any sign of feeling Lan die which meant the thread of their bond wasn't severed.

 

And I agree, Narg, that would have been a more fitting ending.  The cliche "horse gets struck with an arrow" was old back when Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves came out.  It was obvious it was a forced death.  The wonderful thing about being human is the ability to right that wrong in our own heads.

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I have always wondered, if someone in a link loses a Warder, do they lose the One Power in the link too??

When you say link do you mean circle? If so then I think it would depend on who was controlling the circle

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I for one went into a panic when it looked like Lan died to Demandred. All I could see was Rand failing had that happened, since Nynaeve was concentrating on keeping Alanna alive, since she was severely injured and slowly dying as the story progressed. When he stood up I actually had tears of joy in my eyes from the relief.

 

Ditto. 

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