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Tuon, a better description needed.


TheoryMan
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I can't seem to recall, but how dark is Tuon? African dark? (our world) I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but it helps me to imagine people in the book if I can relate how they look from their description to a race in our real world. I seem to remember there being people as dark as the Athan Miere (african dark) except they had blue eyes. For some reason, I just cant put an image to Tuon's face.

 

Thanks for any info.

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I think of her as black, because of Mat's description of her resembling black porcelain, but that always throws me into a tailspin when Tuon claims her blond Dresser/Shadow looks more like the Imperial Family than her. I can accept a world where black and white are totally inconsequential and are never mentioned, but I have a problem with a family of light skinned blond people having dark porcelain children. Biology is not that malleable. Most days I just try to ignore those conflicting statements and descriptions.

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I always thought of her as Sri Lankan black, which is that kind of color grouping.

 

And of little relevance, I think of Altara as being Greek.

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Guest Wynne Jessal

Seanchan is confusing in that way. There are many references to what we would consider African appearance.

 

People from different areas of Seanchan have been described with "black skin", "honey-colored skin", "fair hair", pale eyes and dark eyes. So it seems to jump from one extreme to the other. It just goes to show that we shouldn't try to draw DIRECT paralells from one culture in the books to one in our world.

 

She has full lips, a heart-shaped face, large dark eyes. None of those are really indicative of any specific equivalent culture of our day. I know there was a quote or two about her skin being dark or something, but I can't find it.

 

I know some of the atha'an miere have been described as "blacker than charcoal", which seems pretty straightforward. In general, it seems that they all have dark skin, hair, and eyes.

 

Then you also have Tairens, Altarans, Ghealdanin, Domani who all have been noted for being "dark" (or "coppery" as the Domani are).

 

I find this FAQ interesting: http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/3_sources/3.14_countries.html

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I look at it this way Randland countries and Seafolk are confined to their areas, e.g. Tairens are dark, Domani have coppery skin, etc. But the Seanchan are one big unhappy empire bloodlines and races have been mixing all over the empire for 1000 years. Just the way I see it.

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Seanchan is like the USA, except with black presidents. :lol:

 

Tuon is African black, she has curled black hair (though I stand corrected here).

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I have no idea where I have gotten all the information from (presumably from descriptions and comments here and there in the books) but my mental image of Tuon is small (mat had her wrapped in a carpet across his saddle), african-black and bald, for some reason - can someone tell me where I got this image from?

 

With regards to the Seanchan colouring, I had not thought of this. Egeanin is white with dark hair in my minds' eye, suroth equally white with the shaved head and mohawk.

 

I have to say I had not pictured the Athaan Miere as being black but you are all correct - the books do say so.

 

One other question - is Siuan blonde or brunette? I always imagined her blonde, but in my latest re-read I have noticed it states her as 'dark'. She is a southerner, but is she white / black / blonde / brunette? Leane I cannot put a hair colour to either. Sheriam is obviously a red-head - what is her nationality? Verin I imagine as a little like the dinner ladies at school - rotund and cuddly with vaguely wild hair.

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Yes I also think Tuon is African black - maybe Kenyan - not as black some Sudanese.

 

As for the Sea folk I'm with Tarkand01 - did not imagine them black more like Indian in different shapes of brown - all the way to Sri Lanka black - which is pretty black (actually I knew some one from Sri Lanka who is darker then most of my African friends)

 

Ohm, Siuan - I also see blond - but know idea where that comes from :-?

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Guest Wynne Jessal
I have to say I had not pictured the Athaan Miere as being black but you are all correct - the books do say so.

 

One other question - is Siuan blonde or brunette? I always imagined her blonde' date=' but in my latest re-read I have noticed it states her as 'dark'. She is a southerner, but is she white / black / blonde / brunette? Leane I cannot put a hair colour to either. Sheriam is obviously a red-head - what is her nationality? Verin I imagine as a little like the dinner ladies at school - rotund and cuddly with vaguely wild hair.[/quote']

 

I never pictured the Sea Folk as "black" either, so I found the quote interesting. It kinda throws a spoke in the wheel of your mental images.

 

Siuan has dark hair and blue eyes (although for the longest time I always pictured her as blonde too!), but she has "fair" skin, which I'm not sure where that comes from in Tear. There are probably other examples of pale Tairens out there. It has been noted that blue eyes are rare in Tear.

 

Sheriam is Saldaean, and her hair color is noted rare for that country, but green eyes are apparently not.

 

I don't know that it actually mentions Leane's hair color, but since she is "coppery" as a Domani, presumably she has mid- to dark-brown or auburn hair. I picture her as having reddish brown hair, at least.

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The Seanchan were invaded by Randlanders one thousand years ago. Hawkwing's son and his army. They would be white for the most part. The Seanchan natives might be black. Over a thousand years of inter racial marriages would produce a great variety of features.

 

So you could have blond haired dark skinned people, fair skinned people with black features and so on. the possibilities are infinite.

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Guest Wynne Jessal
The Seanchan were invaded by Randlanders one thousand years ago. Hawkwing's son and his army. They would be white for the most part. The Seanchan natives might be black. Over a thousand years of inter racial marriages would produce a great variety of features.

 

So you could have blond haired dark skinned people' date=' fair skinned people with black features and so on. the possibilities are infinite.[/quote']

 

That makes sense. I (obviously!) never thought about it that much. With the Seanchan claiming descent from Hawkwing, I assumed they meant it most literally. As in... ALL of them!

 

But no, it's obviously more logical that the majority of Seanchan were already present (it's a huge continent after all), and the fairer strands present there are courtesy of the Hawkwing 'invasion'.

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Tuon is small (mat had her wrapped in a carpet across his saddle)' date=' african-black and bald, for some reason - can someone tell me where I got this image from?[/quote']

Tuon is of the Imperial Family and therefore her head is clean shaven.

The Seanchan shave their heads according to their ranking among those of the Blood. The more that is shaven, the higher the standing. ;)

 

That makes sense. I (obviously!) never thought about it that much. With the Seanchan claiming descent from Hawkwing' date=' I assumed they meant it most literally. As in... ALL of them![/color']

I took it to mean the Imperial Family and not all Seanchan....

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I think of her as black' date=' because of Mat's description of her resembling black porcelain, but that always throws me into a tailspin when Tuon claims her blond Dresser/Shadow looks more like the Imperial Family than her. I can accept a world where black and white are totally inconsequential and are never mentioned, but I have a problem with a family of light skinned blond people having dark porcelain children. Biology is not that malleable. Most days I just try to ignore those conflicting statements and descriptions.[/quote']

 

Indeed. We know the Artur Hawkwing was of fair skinned, and he was the descendant and starter of the imperial line.

SO we can assume, that most of the imperial family is fair skinned, but probably Tuon's father, or perhaps even one of her grandparents were dark skinned. This would mean all her cousins would still be fair skinned, hence her comment about them all looking more fitting into the imperial family then her.

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when tuon is first introduced in the series, she is having her head shaved (WH). she keeps it shaved until mat takes her then she starts to let it grow again. when she leaves mat, she tells kadere (sp?) she wants to shave her head again.

 

i remember when i was first reading about her, i mentally pictured her being very dark skinned like india dark. but there are later descriptions where it seems she's darker than most africans are.

 

also, since there is quite a variety of skin colors in randland, and hawkwing had basically unified randland. it's possible and likely there was a mix of skin colors that went with him. so it could be that some of tuon's tree was from the darker-skinned countries. i've gotten the impression that at least some of the people native to the seanchan empire are very dark colored but i don't think they all are. and we do know that someone can be raised to the blood. so it seems pretty possible that there's a combination of marrying the darker skinned inhabitants and people being raised to the blood to add to it that way too.

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Indeed. We know the Artur Hawkwing was of fair skinned' date=' and he was the descendant and starter of the imperial line.

SO we can assume, that most of the imperial family is fair skinned, but probably Tuon's father, or perhaps even one of her grandparents were dark skinned. This would mean all her cousins would still be fair skinned, hence her comment about them all looking more fitting into the imperial family then her.[/quote']

 

Best way to explain it I've heard, we haven't really heard a description of either Tuon's mother or father. It would account for her description, i.e. hair and so forth, although I would think her skin tone would probably be lighter than her parent or grandparent as skin pigmentation isn't usually all or none the way eye color would be. Mat's description is coming from a background in the Two Rivers where there is probably less diversity in skin tones and he would not be as used to distinguishing shading variations as someone more worldly.

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yeah... i wouldn't trust any of the book covers for how the people actually look

 

I agree with that. I've always pictured her as having this type of skin color:

 

halle_win.jpg

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I imagine Tuon as somewhat darker than that. I see the Sea Folk as looking like (eastern) Indians, southerners and Domani as having a sort of Mediterranean coloring, (including Siuan, Leane, and Juilin.)

The only toughest thing for me to imagine is what Saldeans look like, actually.

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i do think tuon is african dark based on her description in the books.

 

saldeans, i think of as either arabic dark, or possibly oriental in color.

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yeah... i wouldn't trust any of the book covers for how the people actually look

 

I agree with that. I've always pictured her as having this type of skin color:

 

halle_win.jpg

 

Tuon is described as black in the books. You can say what you want, but Halle Berry isn`t black.

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I would definitely say that a better description of skin color would be needed to definitively say what color skin Tuon has because I am with TheoryMan on the Halle Berry look, maybe slightly darker, because I just don't see Tuon as African Dark as some have said. I picture African Dark to be really dark skin along the lines of characters described in the book as having skin that is charcoal dark or darker than charcoal. The only characters that fit that description are the Sea Folk and Anath/Semirhage, there may be more but those were the ones that came to mind first.

 

To see this point look in Winter's Heart chapter 17 - Pink Ribbons where there is a description of Anath/Semirhage:

 

Pink Ribbons[/i]"]Seated at her side was a little girl' date=' of all things, also in an elaborately flowered robe over pleated white skirts, but with a sheer veil covering her entire head—it seemed to be shaved completely!—and wearing a fortune in rubies. Even in a state of shock, he noticed rubies and gold. A slender woman, nearly as dark as her stark black gown and tall even had she been Aiel, stood behind the girl’s chair with her arms folded and ill-concealed impatience. Her wavy black hair was short, but not shaved at all, so she was neither of the Blood nor so’jhin. Imperiously beautiful, she put Tylin and Suroth both in the shade. He noticed beautiful women, too, even when he did feel hit in the head with a hammer.[/quote']

This is from Mat's point of view and I know that we aren't asking how dark Anath/Semirhage is but to me it shows how a character that can compare the two pictures at least one of them. In this scene Mat clearly states that Anath/Semirhage is as dark as her stark black gown, along with that I never see a description coming from Mat stating that Tuon is as dark as Anath/Semirhage, charcoal dark, or anything else that would lead me to thing she is as dark as Anath/Semirhage; he didn't compare the two immediately and I don't remember him ever describing Tuon to be as dark throughout the rest of the books.

 

Also, Anath/Semirhage in these descriptions is what I picture as African Dark so by that I would put Tuon as having a lighter skin color than Anath/Semirhage because Mat never using anything to describe her being as dark as Anath/Semirhage. At least in my mind I picture her as being similar in skin color to Halle Berry though I could picture her as darker than that just not African Dark as others have said, of course it would depend on your definition of African Dark.

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There are lots of brown africans as well.

 

Only west africans are truly "black". (ghana, nigeria, etc)

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Hey Thor thanks for the heads up on that, it completely slipped my mind. I guess it would just be nice for people to clarify what they mean then when they say African Dark because to me it is that really dark skin color that you talked about in Ghana and so forth, and that isn't how I personally pictured Tuon.

 

Of course you have to take into account on my first read through I missed the whole dark skin until farther in the books so for some odd reason I was under the mistaken impression she wasn't black but was white, don't ask me where that came from because when it finally clicked in my head I wondered how in the world I missed it earlier.

 

I guess my whole point was that we really can't say whether she has the same skin color as say Halle Berry or if she is as dark as Anath/Semirhage because the only descriptions we have of her are dark and black, which to me could have a large degree of colors that could cover the description given.

 

But oh well I guess we are all free to interpret the image that has been described in the books however we see fit based on those descriptions.

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yes there are different type of black with in Africa and as I said some Asia Pacific folks like Sri Lanka or PNG are darker then some African's.

 

The description of Semi sounds like someone I met from Sudan - very black and extremely tall.

 

While as I said earlier Tuon to me is more east Africa Kenya like (at least the Kenyans I know are not black black)

As for the mixed race in the Imperial family I have a friend who is half Nigerian half European, he himself is quite dark brown (don't know his parents so don't know how "white" his mother is) BUT his wife is VERY white they have 4 boys that range form milk coffee brown with blond hair to dark brown with pitch black hair.

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