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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Barid Bel Medar

Unfettered Demandred PoV Discussion

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Sakarnen was kept locked up in a tower during the War of Power because it was 'too powerful'? Come on...

 

I don't bag very much on Sanderson, but this is the kind of throw away line that drives me crazy. The DO is about to conquer and assumedly destroy the world and the Light doesn't use their most effective because... it might destroy the world? Or something? Its just thoughtless. Just say Sakarnen was lost during the war and leave it at that. This is pretty classic BS- give an important and fascinating plot point a 'cool' backstory (its SOOO powerful nobody dared even use it. Which begs the question why it was made, much less why the CK ended up being made) at the expense of common sense. Annoying.

 

People were too scared to use the Choedan Kal, actually.

 

But I agree that adding this in for Sakarnen just feels off.

 

 

Certainly true, but they were going to use the CK (although they had a healthy fear of doing so). In fact, thats why they built it. Its an open question as to why you would build a weapon you would never use, even in the last extreme. Especially when you were busy building weapons even more powerful that you did intend to use.

 

 

 

Nuclear weapons and the real life guiding principle that people are too simultaneously smart/stupid for their own good immediately comes to mind.

 

 

Yeah it definitely comes to mind, but the problem is this wasnt a mutually assured destruction situation (like the use of balefire). This was a 'world is ending anyway situation, what do you have to lose'. In other words the things they DID attempt were even more dangerous than that, so whats the point.

 

OK- here's something that just occurs to me that might be an out: Demandred never actually says that the Light side created Sakarnen. If the Dark created it, and the DO forbade its use (since they were on the cusp of victory), that would make more sense. That might be a good question of BS.

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Yeah it definitely comes to mind, but the problem is this wasnt a mutually assured destruction situation (like the use of balefire). This was a 'world is ending anyway situation, what do you have to lose'. In other words the things they DID attempt were even more dangerous than that, so whats the point.

 

 

That depends - we're talking about roughly the same period that the male channelers all went nuts, right? You want multiple Dragonmounts or just one?

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Yeah it definitely comes to mind, but the problem is this wasnt a mutually assured destruction situation (like the use of balefire). This was a 'world is ending anyway situation, what do you have to lose'. In other words the things they DID attempt were even more dangerous than that, so whats the point.

 

 

That depends - we're talking about roughly the same period that the male channelers all went nuts, right? You want multiple Dragonmounts or just one?

 

 

Roughly the same period doesnt really work- it had to have been made before the bore was sealed (or it surely wouldn't have been made), and before the bore was sealed they obviously didn't know about the taint. Nobody was making war decisions based on a foreknowledge of either the strike on SG or the DOs backlash. Thats not even the worst case scenario in any event (the DO winning and destroying the wheel being the worst case).

 

And the point is such a powerful sa'angreal could have stemmed the tide of the war, possibly even won the war, without having to resort to the strike on SG (or using the CK). IE- using Sakarnen was safer than the other options.

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Or does Sakarnen have something else that made it dangerous? Like a version of Callandor's flaw but much more dangerous? Is that why they did not use it?

Edited by wotfan4472

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I thought it was a nice little read, and we got to see what a Worm looks like.

 

Just as Brandon said, it would have been great if this was in book 8, and it def felt like Demondred's adventures could fill another bunch of books. He def seemed like the most adventurous of the forsaken.

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I agree it made no sense.

 

Sarkenan was only a little more powerful than Callandor and Callandor having no buffer theoretically has "no limit". According to Logain PoV, the amount of saidin drawn by Rand was greater than at the Cleansing.

 

The Light would have used Sarkenan, CK if they had the opportunity. Rand was also an utter fool to destroy the male CK. It is just a plot device of course.

 

World War type, nukes, chemical, bilogical, drones, droids...all will be used.

 

As for this short story, it was soooo short, could have easily fit into AMOL prologue.

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During his youthful studies, he had been require to seek the Oneness in the midst of crashing storm, while being towed on a sled behind a horse, and finally while enduring the pain of hot coal against his skin.

I doubt in Age of Legend they trained Aes Sedai in this way. Or Semirhage would not be in trouble, she could become a trainer. In an age people even didn't know what was war they did not need Spartan training . I guess they also didn't use horses too much when they were use to travel with Jo-Cars, Sho-WIngs and travelling.

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During his youthful studies, he had been require to seek the Oneness in the midst of crashing storm, while being towed on a sled behind a horse, and finally while enduring the pain of hot coal against his skin.

I doubt in Age of Legend they trained Aes Sedai in this way. Or Semirhage would not be in trouble, she could become a trainer. In an age people even didn't know what was war they did not need Spartan training . I guess they also didn't use horses too much when they were use to travel with Jo-Cars, Sho-WIngs and travelling.

 

So cringeworthy. Bummer because I would really like to read more about Dem but if it is more of the same I will certainly pass.

 

Does anyone have an opinion on the Rothfuss, Abraham or Lawrence stories?

Edited by Suttree

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Is there any way to read Unfetterd without buying the whole River of Souls anthology?  (legally, that is)

 

While I brought it cheap with Amazon, it is not worth it.

 

It is 12 pages long (not 13 really, given 1/2 page intro and 1/2 page "conclusion"). You are not missing anything.

 

 

 

 

Spoilers below:

 

Demandred goes to fight a Worm to become a sexy, slim Wildthing. Yawn. Demandred gets a final piece of Suckernan. End of story.

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I don't think the story is bad. It is just not WOT. The man is not Demandred.

It is not adding some new aspects or show some humanity, the character's basic personality is ignored. I guess Brandon Sanderson is addicted to his lonely, tangled hear heroes too much. Like Androl in AMOL, this character ( and his story) would be good if he was in Mistborn or Elantris, but he is not a Randland man. 

 

For Demandred, first of all he was a Forsaken. The Forsaken are very arrogant. As a man almost as great as LTT, Demandred was more arrogant than others. I can't imagine he would allow some stupid old Sharan call him 'son'. 

 

And the love and friendship things. Did he need it? He was not a lonely young man never had a friend or lover. What makes him Forsaken is not that people didn't admire him. It is they admired LTT more. I don't think he would be affected by Sharans so easily.

 

 

The slave emancipation is also strange. Shara's history was longer than any nation. Even with their Sh'boan and Sh'botay captured, the culture could not change so soon. Can we imagine Seachan abandoned their a'dam in two years? It is not possible. 

 

BTW:

Where did Demandred find so many male channelers? In fact there was no real male channeler in Shara. There were only boys with potentials. They were raised as animals and killed before they could channel. I don't remember it mentioned that all Sharan male channelers were teenagers. 

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Well I did always want to find out what a Jumara was like when it "matured" or whatever.  And I know in MoL that Taim seems to think there's something to the Sakarnen, like it sucks your life force away or something?  Is that expounded upon?

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Reading some of these replies I feel like I read some other story.

It  sucked .

After all the hype and hoopla I imagined the deleted scene would be an epic description of Demandred's adventures in Shara.

Bah.

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Well I did always want to find out what a Jumara was like when it "matured" or whatever.  And I know in MoL that Taim seems to think there's something to the Sakarnen, like it sucks your life force away or something?  Is that expounded upon?

Haven't read River of Whatever, but there's many other ways to interpret that observation from Taim (i.e. he didn't know what he was talking about--see Graendal using the TP to control a bird and compare to what's described).

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Well I did always want to find out what a Jumara was like when it "matured" or whatever.  And I know in MoL that Taim seems to think there's something to the Sakarnen, like it sucks your life force away or something?  Is that expounded upon?

Haven't read River of Whatever, but there's many other ways to interpret that observation from Taim (i.e. he didn't know what he was talking about--see Graendal using the TP to control a bird and compare to what's described).

 

 

I think the unfettered book with the River of Souls in it cost like $100.

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Well, for what it's worth, I enjoyed it.  It gave an interesting bit of backstory to Demandred's character, provided more insight into Sakarnen and its place in the hierarchy of sa'angreal, and offered a glimpse of the form a jumara would take (to follow up on Sammael's comment in a conversation with Graendal so long ago). 

 

I have no idea if any of these things were in Jordan's notes or would have been approved by him, or if Mr. Sanderson was simply doing "fanboy service" as some have accused in the past, but it tied a few open matters back into the main story sequence, even if it may be officially non-canon.

What is everyone talking about? Was there some thing other than Book Fourteen that explains some of what happened in Shara, from Demandred's  point-of-view?

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Well, for what it's worth, I enjoyed it.  It gave an interesting bit of backstory to Demandred's character, provided more insight into Sakarnen and its place in the hierarchy of sa'angreal, and offered a glimpse of the form a jumara would take (to follow up on Sammael's comment in a conversation with Graendal so long ago). 

 

I have no idea if any of these things were in Jordan's notes or would have been approved by him, or if Mr. Sanderson was simply doing "fanboy service" as some have accused in the past, but it tied a few open matters back into the main story sequence, even if it may be officially non-canon.

What is everyone talking about? Was there some thing other than Book Fourteen that explains some of what happened in Shara, from Demandred's  point-of-view?

 

Yes. Deleted sequences from Book Fourteen were published in a fantasy anthology titled "Unfettered".  The sequence is called "River of Souls".  It was published by Grim Oak Press earlier this year.  The easiest way to get ahold of it is as an ebook, as Grim Oak Press is a very small press, and the only way I know of to get a print copy is through their website directly. (I think the hardback runs $35, if I'm not mistaken.)

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Since i don't like the idea of paying for what I should have had when I bought the book in January, (the unpublished chapters) could someone tell me what the fully "mature" worms look like? The actual jumara?

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Since i don't like the idea of paying for what I should have had when I bought the book in January, (the unpublished chapters)

 

1. The Anthology was made as a benefit for an author who got into debt due to uninsured cancer treatment.

 

2. The scenes were cut by Harriet because they did not work in AMoL. I'm sure there are many such sequences from each book in the series.

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Since i don't like the idea of paying for what I should have had when I bought the book in January, (the unpublished chapters)

 

1. The Anthology was made as a benefit for an author who got into debt due to uninsured cancer treatment.

 

2. The scenes were cut by Harriet because they did not work in AMoL. I'm sure there are many such sequences from each book in the series.

 

Oh. Now I feel like a jerk. Expected the answer to be no. Maybe I'll stumble across it some time

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