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Demandred's Arc (Full Spoilers)

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Not to mention his use of the true power that will change a man as we can see with Moridin compared to IShamael in the prologue.

 

Dem doesn't use the TP. Certainly not enough to change his character in this manner.

 

Interview: Feb 7th, 2013

AMOL Signing Report - Robert Moreau (Paraphrased)

Robert Moreau

The person before me asked why Demandred did not use the True Power during the Last Battle.

Brandon Sanderson

Sanderson said he was wary of the True Power and everything that came with it. "He may have been the smartest of all the Forsaken for not wanting to use the True Power."

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Their is no content before Teotw, new spring was made after book 10. When robert jordan created the character he made him fit you cant say he would be fit from being out of trouble when robert jordan didnt write anything on him pre teotw to book 10. I could make up that he was super fat and he dieted for a year before they got to the two rivers and it is the same as you saying he would be fat if he didnt fight anyone. Its all pure speculation. Im just making the statement that them being stealthy and not fighting that many dark friends wouldnt have gotten the same training as a borderlander or tower warder who literally just train all day. Instead Lan and moiraine would be walking cross country non stop from country to country. Look at his massive treck accross the borderlands to tarwins gap he came accross no one when the brink of the last battle was upon them. Tower warders just train all day and if lans skill was to make sense he would have had tot rain more but in the end its a book and you can make up that moiraine is the best channeler and let robert jordan say it and it will make sense.

According to Lan, people like him attract trouble and death. 

 

 

Now
if Lan was inactive while chasing these boys for 20 odd years, he would
have grown relatively fat, soft and weak. Quite the opposite has
occured, he is far more dangerous and lethal post New Spring.  In book,
Perrin said a mouse could starve over the difference between Lan and
Rhuarc. In book 8, Aviendha said she has never seen a more dangerous
man. 

 

Lan has gotten practice on the field, killing
DF's, who they would have encountered in their search.  DF's are
everywhere.  I doubt Moraine and Lan faced off against other Black Ajah
or Warders, given they wanted to be stealthy, however this is not
inconceivable...AS dissappear.

Edited by NitroS

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Edited cause i was off topic:

On topic

Not to mention his use of the true power that will change a man as we can see with Moridin compared to IShamael in the prologue.

Suttree: "Dem doesn't use the TP."

 

He does use the TP to shield Taim and Moghedian hints that Demandred had been using the TP to fulfill BAO the WYLD prophecies. Dont have the ebook for aMOL so i cant get the direct quotes for you.

Demandred
just throwing rocks at people is just part of the same symptom of
terrible bad guys from basically book 3... maybe even 2. "They have the
knowledge of the AOL!" but we never see anything totally revolutionary.

I've
always thought the 2nd age channeling to 3rd age channeling should be
like ye ol' english to english. They seem to use similar words but often
you just can't quite make out wtf they're saying.

This is what bothered me earlier in the books how many revolutionary weaves do we really see? it seems like people in this age know more then the previous age. Warder bond, horizontal gateways, tieing off a gateway, healing gentling,stilling, healing madness, detecting a man channeling etc. What do we actually see that someone in the third age didnt develop? disguising your weaves and disguising your ability to channel are the only things that really come to mind for women. (men dont count as they were virtually extinct the whole age). Robert jordan should have created more interesting attacking weaves in the earlier books, their was little new weaves outside deathgates for combat, The battles between rand and the forsaken i was expecting a new weave to come out here and there but they all just seemed to throw fire.

 

I do like how they do use different words for some things, such as demandred calling circles rings and weaves webs. But they all seem to channel the same. It should have been how brandon described Demandreds sword play how his stances were slightly different weaving should have been the same. I also thought that weaving against another gender was flawed if they cant see the weaves, but they cut the weave. Why wouldnt Aes Sedai always Invert their weaves? Also if they knew the opposite person couldnt see their weaves why not send out their weaves from a different direction to circle around, or lift the earth underneath them.

Edited by NitroS

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Edited cause i was off topic:

On topic

 

 

Not to mention his use of the true power that will change a man as we can see with Moridin compared to IShamael in the prologue.

Suttree: "Dem doesn't use the TP."

He does use the TP to shield Taim and Moghedian hints that Demandred had been using the TP to fulfill BAO the WYLD prophecies. Dont have the ebook for aMOL so i cant get the direct quotes for you.
I already pointed out that you selectively edited my post once and then you just repeat it? No need to dig in the text.. The point being made is he doesn't use it often, certainly not enough to cause the change in character. The author quote provided clearly backs that up. Edited by Suttree

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Their is no content before Teotw, new spring was made after book 10. When robert jordan created the character he made him fit you cant say he would be fit from being out of trouble when robert jordan didnt write anything on him pre teotw to book 10. I could make up that he was super fat and he dieted for a year before they got to the two rivers and it is the same as you saying he would be fat if he didnt fight anyone. Its all pure speculation. Im just making the statement that them being stealthy and not fighting that many dark friends wouldnt have gotten the same training as a borderlander or tower warder who literally just train all day. Instead Lan and moiraine would be walking cross country non stop from country to country. Look at his massive treck accross the borderlands to tarwins gap he came accross no one when the brink of the last battle was upon them. Tower warders just train all day and if lans skill was to make sense he would have had tot rain more but in the end its a book and you can make up that moiraine is the best channeler and let robert jordan say it and it will make sense.

According to Lan, people like him attract trouble and death. 

 

 

Now

if Lan was inactive while chasing these boys for 20 odd years, he would

have grown relatively fat, soft and weak. Quite the opposite has

occured, he is far more dangerous and lethal post New Spring.  In book,

Perrin said a mouse could starve over the difference between Lan and

Rhuarc. In book 8, Aviendha said she has never seen a more dangerous

man. 

 

Lan has gotten practice on the field, killing

DF's, who they would have encountered in their search.  DF's are

everywhere.  I doubt Moraine and Lan faced off against other Black Ajah

or Warders, given they wanted to be stealthy, however this is not

inconceivable...AS dissappear.

For a fighter to stay in that kind of peak condition by the EoTW, he would have practicised.  It is that simple.

 

Warder bound or not, at Lan's age, which is over 40 by the EoTW, if he has let himself go, it would have been next to impossible to be in his condition. 

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Mat's knowledge of war is very extensive, several 100 years at least.

Closer to 1500 years.

 

He probably had knowledge for the Age/3000 years, however, he does not have the entire military knowledge of many men...only battles here and there.   Of course compared to any of the Great Captains and certainly Demandred, his knowledge of war was far far more extensive.  There is knowledge, then there is the gift/instinct that makes Mat the greatest general of all time.

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Their is no content before Teotw, new spring was made after book 10. When robert jordan created the character he made him fit you cant say he would be fit from being out of trouble when robert jordan didnt write anything on him pre teotw to book 10. I could make up that he was super fat and he dieted for a year before they got to the two rivers and it is the same as you saying he would be fat if he didnt fight anyone. Its all pure speculation. Im just making the statement that them being stealthy and not fighting that many dark friends wouldnt have gotten the same training as a borderlander or tower warder who literally just train all day. Instead Lan and moiraine would be walking cross country non stop from country to country. Look at his massive treck accross the borderlands to tarwins gap he came accross no one when the brink of the last battle was upon them. Tower warders just train all day and if lans skill was to make sense he would have had tot rain more but in the end its a book and you can make up that moiraine is the best channeler and let robert jordan say it and it will make sense.

According to Lan, people like him attract trouble and death. 

 

 

Now

if Lan was inactive while chasing these boys for 20 odd years, he would

have grown relatively fat, soft and weak. Quite the opposite has

occured, he is far more dangerous and lethal post New Spring.  In book,

Perrin said a mouse could starve over the difference between Lan and

Rhuarc. In book 8, Aviendha said she has never seen a more dangerous

man. 

 

Lan has gotten practice on the field, killing

DF's, who they would have encountered in their search.  DF's are

everywhere.  I doubt Moraine and Lan faced off against other Black Ajah

or Warders, given they wanted to be stealthy, however this is not

inconceivable...AS dissappear.

For a fighter to stay in that kind of peak condition by the EoTW, he would have practicised.  It is that simple.

 

Warder bound or not, at Lan's age, which is over 40 by the EoTW, if he has let himself go, it would have been next to impossible to be in his condition. 

perhaps im trying to explain my point wrong, He is the best swordsman because as the writer robert jordan wants him to be the strongest. It doesnt make sense hes the best though because regardless of what you say he wouldnt have had anything near the practice that borderlanders or warders get in the tower cause they train against other swordman all day thats their life. Where lan is the strongest swordsman which doesnt make sense cause he was running around with just moirain with no one to train against. Even since Teotw they would only fight trollocs what once a week roughly. While borderlanders are training constantly.

 

It also doesnt make sense that Demandred is so good when he probably didnt practice at all in the 3rd age at sword play. But because the writer wants him to be the best he automatically is. Its like when gawyn came along he got raised to 3rd best swordsman or whatever simply because the writer wants him to be netherless he had little training compared to others.

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Sure, the other warders train against other warders, but Lan is out killing things. Lan was the best when he left, and since then he has been killing things for 20 years. That will be much more helpful than any training will ever be.

 

Plus, sometimes natural talent can elevate those who are naturally gifted above those who work equally as hard. Lan just has that extra something. Plus, the 20+ years of killing things (and the time he spent at the WT training, since he remembers Elyas) would have done no harm to his technique or instincts. 

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Guest Entreri

Training is quite different than a real fight. Nobody goes 100% in training and it is not to the death. 

 

Demandred or LTT can start at around 20, play at swords for 400 years and be the best in AOL, and in no way would that make them better than say Lan, Jearom, who actually battled 1000's to the death for decades. 

 

This is akin to somebody studying martial arts on the weekend (in a McDojo) for 30 years and trying to fight someone in the UFC who has been actually fighting for 3 years....The destruction would not be pleasant. 

 

Given how Lan is protrayed throughout the series, it is very easy to see that he is the best blademaster, similar to Mat being the best general, Rand Sedai/LTT being the best channeler etc.

 

 

Logically, it does not make sense that Demandred would be that good with the blade.  General? No as well, War of Power was only 10 years.  So yes, author's can make up stuff like that and we just have to take it as given. 

 

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Also, the idea that you have to train in a certain way, ie sparring and practice, doesn't always hold up.

 

It's the easiest, sure, but some people defy the norm.

 

My brother in law is a natural fighter.  I've seen him not practice heavily for a while then walk out and still win any fight he enters, over and over again.  In technical skill he's not really all that much better than me (15 years, steady practice and sparring), in fact he might be a bit sloppier, but there is something to be said for natural talent and instinct.

 

Lan is easily such an example, he practices, he keeps in form, he understands the technique, but he also just has that X factor that makes him dangerous.  Maybe even something as simple as his "Don't give up until you're dead" approach.

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i agree.  all that story on boring faile, when we could  of been reading about demandrend.

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When Gawyn, and then Galad had their shot at Demandred, I really thought that it was a foreshadowing to Mat fighting Demandred with Asherendei (sp?). I though this as it would be a throwback to the time he defeated BOTH of them at once using a quarterstaff. In my head, I could see Mat reaching Dem (using his luck to traverse the army between them) and facing off against Dem (as he also has a foxhead medallion, plus has experience using it). I could then see Mat gaining the upper hand in the fight and the Sharan's stepping in to help, one by one, culminating in Mat fighting off a small army and finishing Demandred.

 

As it stands, the Lan scene was incredible, with Tam assisting his approach and the sword fight that ensued, so I wasn't one bit upset.

 

Did anyone else have this feeling prior to Demandred's demise?

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When Gawyn, and then Galad had their shot at Demandred, I really thought that it was a foreshadowing to Mat fighting Demandred with Asherendei (sp?). I though this as it would be a throwback to the time he defeated BOTH of them at once using a quarterstaff. In my head, I could see Mat reaching Dem (using his luck to traverse the army between them) and facing off against Dem (as he also has a foxhead medallion, plus has experience using it). I could then see Mat gaining the upper hand in the fight and the Sharan's stepping in to help, one by one, culminating in Mat fighting off a small army and finishing Demandred.

 

As it stands, the Lan scene was incredible, with Tam assisting his approach and the sword fight that ensued, so I wasn't one bit upset.

 

Did anyone else have this feeling prior to Demandred's demise?

By the time Lan challenged Demandred I was convinced every remaining character would challenge Demandred.

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When Gawyn, and then Galad had their shot at Demandred, I really thought that it was a foreshadowing to Mat fighting Demandred with Asherendei (sp?). I though this as it would be a throwback to the time he defeated BOTH of them at once using a quarterstaff. In my head, I could see Mat reaching Dem (using his luck to traverse the army between them) and facing off against Dem (as he also has a foxhead medallion, plus has experience using it). I could then see Mat gaining the upper hand in the fight and the Sharan's stepping in to help, one by one, culminating in Mat fighting off a small army and finishing Demandred.

 

As it stands, the Lan scene was incredible, with Tam assisting his approach and the sword fight that ensued, so I wasn't one bit upset.

 

Did anyone else have this feeling prior to Demandred's demise?

By the time Lan challenged Demandred I was convinced every remaining character would challenge Demandred.

In many ways, better than what we got:

 

DEMANDRED: "FACE ME LEWS THERIN!"

SHARAN: "Sir, there's a Valan Luca here to see you? He says he's here to challenge you to fisticuffs?"

DEMANDRED: "... Send him in."

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When Gawyn, and then Galad had their shot at Demandred, I really thought that it was a foreshadowing to Mat fighting Demandred with Asherendei (sp?). I though this as it would be a throwback to the time he defeated BOTH of them at once using a quarterstaff. In my head, I could see Mat reaching Dem (using his luck to traverse the army between them) and facing off against Dem (as he also has a foxhead medallion, plus has experience using it). I could then see Mat gaining the upper hand in the fight and the Sharan's stepping in to help, one by one, culminating in Mat fighting off a small army and finishing Demandred.

 

As it stands, the Lan scene was incredible, with Tam assisting his approach and the sword fight that ensued, so I wasn't one bit upset.

 

Did anyone else have this feeling prior to Demandred's demise?

By the time Lan challenged Demandred I was convinced every remaining character would challenge Demandred.
In many ways, better than what we got:

 

DEMANDRED: "FACE ME LEWS THERIN!"

SHARAN: "Sir, there's a Valan Luca here to see you? He says he's here to challenge you to fisticuffs?"

DEMANDRED: "... Send him in."

Classic.

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When Gawyn, and then Galad had their shot at Demandred, I really thought that it was a foreshadowing to Mat fighting Demandred with Asherendei (sp?). I though this as it would be a throwback to the time he defeated BOTH of them at once using a quarterstaff. In my head, I could see Mat reaching Dem (using his luck to traverse the army between them) and facing off against Dem (as he also has a foxhead medallion, plus has experience using it). I could then see Mat gaining the upper hand in the fight and the Sharan's stepping in to help, one by one, culminating in Mat fighting off a small army and finishing Demandred.

 

As it stands, the Lan scene was incredible, with Tam assisting his approach and the sword fight that ensued, so I wasn't one bit upset.

 

Did anyone else have this feeling prior to Demandred's demise?

By the time Lan challenged Demandred I was convinced every remaining character would challenge Demandred.
In many ways, better than what we got:

 

DEMANDRED: "FACE ME LEWS THERIN!"

SHARAN: "Sir, there's a Valan Luca here to see you? He says he's here to challenge you to fisticuffs?"

DEMANDRED: "... Send him in."

Classic.

 

 

DEMANDRED: "AH LARAS, I KNEW YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RESIST, BUT THE SPATULA TER'ANGREAL IS BONDED TO ME! THE SECRET INGREDIENT IS- FORKROOT!"

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When Gawyn, and then Galad had their shot at Demandred, I really thought that it was a foreshadowing to Mat fighting Demandred with Asherendei (sp?). I though this as it would be a throwback to the time he defeated BOTH of them at once using a quarterstaff. In my head, I could see Mat reaching Dem (using his luck to traverse the army between them) and facing off against Dem (as he also has a foxhead medallion, plus has experience using it). I could then see Mat gaining the upper hand in the fight and the Sharan's stepping in to help, one by one, culminating in Mat fighting off a small army and finishing Demandred.

 

As it stands, the Lan scene was incredible, with Tam assisting his approach and the sword fight that ensued, so I wasn't one bit upset.

 

Did anyone else have this feeling prior to Demandred's demise?

By the time Lan challenged Demandred I was convinced every remaining character would challenge Demandred.
In many ways, better than what we got:

 

DEMANDRED: "FACE ME LEWS THERIN!"

SHARAN: "Sir, there's a Valan Luca here to see you? He says he's here to challenge you to fisticuffs?"

DEMANDRED: "... Send him in."

Classic.

 

 

DEMANDRED: "AH LARAS, I KNEW YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RESIST, BUT THE SPATULA TER'ANGREAL IS BONDED TO ME! THE SECRET INGREDIENT IS- FORKROOT!"

 

From the Unreasoner over at Theoryland: 

 

 

"Why Demandred decided to drop acid before donning that ridiculous armor and taking the field was beyond M'Hael, but his position was not yet secure enough to question the actions of the other Chosen."

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Does anyone notice the effects of Demandred's balefire during his rages? Maybe that was why Mat was having trouble. Remember M'hael's balefire battle with Egwene? I found this entire battle to be fascinating, and seeing Nicola's Foretelling come true.... the part about the great battle, and more to come....so cool!!!!

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I was ok with Demandred's part in aMoL, but it was under developed and could have been better.  In retrospect, a lot more about Shara and Demandred could have been done earlier.   

 

His death at the hands of Lan though was excellent, though I was actually expecting Tam Al'Thor to kill him.  It just felt that was the direction it was going after they had started building up Tam's sword skill and he was shouting that "I killed your brother".  I expected the father to stand and yell at him or something.

 

Anyways, we all suspected that that Lan was the best of the blade masters, know we know for 100% sure.  

 

Gawyn was built up as being deadly... Gawyn killed Hammer.  Sleete didn't want anything to do with Gawyn and yet Gawyn had the ter'angreal and still couldn't touch Demandred.  

Galad was built up as being deadly when he destroyed Valda, who was said to be one of the deadliest of the blademasters.  

 

Then Lan, who had basically been getting his ass kicked for the last month, stepped up and killed him with relative ease.  

 

 

I still almost feel that Lan died and Rand sort of resurrected him.  

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I was really excited when he showed up, loved all the Sharans/Bao the Wyld/Dragonslayer stuff.

 

A bit disappointed that we never really got more than him sitting in the middle of a battle. 

 

I'm glad he killed Gawyn and I wish Galad had died as well.

 

First post in several years, good to be back!

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I was ok with Demandred's part in aMoL, but it was under developed and could have been better.  In retrospect, a lot more about Shara and Demandred could have been done earlier.   

 

 

 

You're not alone, pretty sure Team Jordan themselves feel that way. 

That's why we're getting the extra short story about Demmy. 

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Actually, Brandon talked about that a bit in a panel at PCC this last weekend.

 

The Shara scene and world building was almost entirely Brandon's.  He pushed heavily for it but Team Jordan made the call that it would be too distractive showing up where it does.  We're ramping up to the end and then suddenly jump ship to another corner of the world to lay out an entirely new culture and people.

 

Brandon was against it being cut but in the end agreed with Team Jordan that it was a bit displaced.  Then when the Unfettered project came out he got Harriet's permission to put the chapter there since they did feel it was a good chapter and story, just not one that belongs in AMOL.

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Also, the idea that you have to train in a certain way, ie sparring and practice, doesn't always hold up.

 

It's the easiest, sure, but some people defy the norm.

 

My brother in law is a natural fighter.  I've seen him not practice heavily for a while then walk out and still win any fight he enters, over and over again.  In technical skill he's not really all that much better than me (15 years, steady practice and sparring), in fact he might be a bit sloppier, but there is something to be said for natural talent and instinct.

 

Lan is easily such an example, he practices, he keeps in form, he understands the technique, but he also just has that X factor that makes him dangerous.  Maybe even something as simple as his "Don't give up until you're dead" approach.

 

That's exactly as I see it. No other swordsman/fighter seems to have that except maybe Rand and Rodel a bit. Everyone else wants to live past the battle in front of them. Lan doesn't. Well not to say he doesn't want to live, but in the moment, he wants to get the job done.

 

Which to tie into the thread topic, is why I loved the last thing Demandred ever heard, "You mistake me. I didn't come here to win. I came to kill you." Actually gave me chills.

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