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Demandred's Arc (Full Spoilers)


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As I said, if it works for you all good Finnnssss. Again though just make the ground move to drop him or any of the other hundreds of things he could have easily done. Reducing a channeler from the AoL to throwing pebbles is pretty lame IMO. Saying he was too pressed to channel is a cop out.

 

Heh, like I said, it's more than Be'lal did before he was Baelfired and he wasn't being pressed at all :wink:

Are you just screwing with me now, I don't think you can seriously believe what you are saying here.  I didn't address that because he was taken by surprise while fighting Rand by a third party who already had a weave prepared for balefire ready to go. There is no comparison whatsoever between the two.

 

Regardless this has no bearing on what we are discussing. Let's please stick to the topic.

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As I said, if it works for you all good Finnnssss. Again though just make the ground move to drop him or any of the other hundreds of things he could have easily done. Reducing a channeler from the AoL to throwing pebbles is pretty lame IMO. Saying he was too pressed to channel is a cop out.

 

Heh, like I said, it's more than Be'lal did before he was Baelfired and he wasn't being pressed at all :wink:

Are you just screwing with me now, I don't think you can seriously believe what you are saying here.  I didn't address that because he was taken by surprise while fighting Rand by a third party who already had a weave prepared for balefire ready to go. There is no comparison whatsoever between the two.

 

Regardless this has no bearing on what we are discussing. Let's please stick to the topic.

 

I don't see it that way.

He was mildly surprised sure but he took the time to say I thought you were taken care of or something to that affect and THEN he started to prepare something to use on her, then he was killed. What was that, about 3-5 seconds? That's a hell of a lot more time than Lan was giving Demandred.

Using your own argument about Demandred against you, that AoL channelers use the power so easily and quickly, that argument hardly holds water with how Be'lal died either.

 

I'm not screwing with you, I think you might be seeing what you want to on this.

 

I think you either accept both or accept neither here and I most certainly couldn't accept Be'lal's death over Demandred's if pressed.

Edited by Finnssss
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Just read it. He was surprised and Moiraine had the weave ready to go. He got off a sentence(yes a forsaken style over confident one) began to raise his hand and form a weave and she fried him before he could lift it up.

 

It's basically one person fighting another and a third showing up, surprising them with a gun already drawn and then blasting him before he could draw his own. Not to mention this bullet was balefire so there was no way to stop it. The two circumstances are not even remotely similar.

 

Really this argument was moot from the start because Demandred channeled while fighting. As I said above there are hundreds of things he could do besides throw pebbles. Maybe that's his "boss move" though. Makes sense if its a video game, not so much in a book. We're going in circles at this point however.

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 We're going in circles at this point however.

 

Yep and it's not going to end anytime soon either, if we continue.

We obviously have very different interpretations of the two events.

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Just read it. He was surprised and Moiraine had the weave ready to go. He got off a sentence(yes a forsaken style over confident one) began to raise his hand and form a weave and she fried him before he could lift it up.

 

It's basically one person fighting another and a third showing up, surprising them with a gun already drawn and then blasting him before he could draw his own. Not to mention this bullet was balefire so there was no way to stop it. The two circumstances are not even remotely similar.

 

Really this argument was moot from the start because Demandred channeled while fighting. As I said above there are hundreds of things he could do besides throw pebbles. Maybe that's his "boss move" though. Makes sense if its a video game, not so much in a book. We're going in circles at this point however.

 

I figure that throwing rocks probably takes only a simple weave of Earth, and he already set those up before the fight began.  He had no time to try anything intricate, or to think of anything new.  We really don't know just how much concentration channeling takes, but that sword fight against an equal... that would take almost everything he had.

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vamb, ent

 

you guys are so easily amused. Easily pleased. I find it hard hard to believe an aes sedai from a previous age could only muster rocks at his opponent. Bloomin rocks!

 

And you would think with all the power he weilded he would have launched an entire army of rocks instead of one and two.

 

Fact of the matter is demandred was made out to be a wuss. Barid bel maidar from AOL was a master. The clown masquerading as him in the current age was anything but.

 

 

Wrong tactics, wrong moves, wrong goals wrong everything. he accomplished nothing. Absolutely nothing for 14 books demandred.

 

 

It says alot when asmodean caused more damage than him to rand and co

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Elan Tedronai;

 

I am NOT easily amused and easily pleased. Do NOT assume that I am. Just because I am disagreeing with you and actually enjoyed reading AMOL does NOT mean that I am easily pleased and amused.

 

However, I am not an extremely hyper-critical person like you are. There's a big difference. Perhaps you might be able to see that.

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I never really was all that interested in Demandred, so I didn't particularly care if he came off looking like a raging loony (which he did in some cases, in other cases not as much)... but I do agree that it seemed kind of out of place.  I felt the three duels was a bit much also.  Two, I could see.  One fails, so another follows up... but three

Rule of Three in action.

I would've actually preferred if Galad killed him, if they were going the sword fight route.  Since Galad had been made out to be the perfect swordsman, it would've made sense, and even if Galad died in the process, that would simply fit his mythic archetype, since the perfect knight Galahad himself died after finding the Holy Grail.  Tacking on the sword fight with Lan just seemed a bit excessive.  Don't get me wrong, I like Lan, I think he's epic... but I would have thought that whether he killed Demandred or not.  Killing a Forsaken doesn't necessarily earn Lan coolness points, since he's already maxed out through a number of other factors.

 

If they were going to do three duels, I think the third should have been against Mat.  Mat was the other commanding general, had decided from the get-go he wanted to avoid Demandred, and had previously beaten Gawyn and Galad (at the same time) in combat.  It would have nicely wrapped up the recurring theme of Mat getting dragged into fights he doesn't want to be in (because Demandred would seek Mat out, not the other way around) and add another incident wherein a farmer with a stick trumps the invincible blademaster.  Since Mat already has his foxhead medallion, it would also remove the kind of odd exchange whereby the copy he gave to Galad is somehow passed along to Lan.

If anyone is presented as the perfect swordsman, it's Lan - he's always been presented as better than anyone else. Also, surely the problem with already being "maxed out" on "coolness points" already applies to Mat? And another instance of Mat getting dragged into a fight he doesn't want, and another instance of guy-with-staff-beats-guy-with-sword is surely taking the problem of repetition and exacerbating it?

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I never really was all that interested in Demandred, so I didn't particularly care if he came off looking like a raging loony (which he did in some cases, in other cases not as much)... but I do agree that it seemed kind of out of place.  I felt the three duels was a bit much also.  Two, I could see.  One fails, so another follows up... but three

Rule of Three in action.

>I would've actually preferred if Galad killed him, if they were going the sword fight route.  Since Galad had been made out to be the perfect swordsman, it would've made sense, and even if Galad died in the process, that would simply fit his mythic archetype, since the perfect knight Galahad himself died after finding the Holy Grail.  Tacking on the sword fight with Lan just seemed a bit excessive.  Don't get me wrong, I like Lan, I think he's epic... but I would have thought that whether he killed Demandred or not.  Killing a Forsaken doesn't necessarily earn Lan coolness points, since he's already maxed out through a number of other factors.

 

If they were going to do three duels, I think the third should have been against Mat.  Mat was the other commanding general, had decided from the get-go he wanted to avoid Demandred, and had previously beaten Gawyn and Galad (at the same time) in combat.  It would have nicely wrapped up the recurring theme of Mat getting dragged into fights he doesn't want to be in (because Demandred would seek Mat out, not the other way around) and add another incident wherein a farmer with a stick trumps the invincible blademaster.  Since Mat already has his foxhead medallion, it would also remove the kind of odd exchange whereby the copy he gave to Galad is somehow passed along to Lan.

If anyone is presented as the perfect swordsman, it's Lan - he's always been presented as better than anyone else. Also, surely the problem with already being "maxed out" on "coolness points" already applies to Mat? And another instance of Mat getting dragged into a fight he doesn't want, and another instance of guy-with-staff-beats-guy-with-sword is surely taking the problem of repetition and exacerbating it?

 

Sure.  I won't deny there's a degree of redundancy in having Mat kill him in a duel also.  I would've preferred he die in some fashion other than a sword battle, really.  I just felt that if they were going to have him lose a duel, Mat would be the more logical choice.  Even applying the Rule of Three, there is typically a connection made between the three at some point prior.  In this case, the only real connection that Lan had to either Demandred or Gawyn and Galad was that they were all swordsmen.  Lan has never fought either Gawyn or Galad prior to this, has never really been involved in fighting any of the Forsaken, has no real relation to Gawyn or Galad - he essentially only gets dragged in to answer the question: Is Lan the greatest swordsman?  And that's where my disappointment with the Demandred arc lies.  At the end of the day, the only thing he contributes to the story, aside from a supply of Red Shirts for the Last Battle and some speculation throughout the years as to what he's been up to all this time, is that he becomes the foil to answer the question "Who is the greatest swordfighter?"  And even then... Lan's battle with him doesn't ultimately come down to who is more skilled.  Where it simply about skill Demandred may have won... it was Lan's intent - to kill Demandred - that won the day.  The same way Rand beat Ishamael in book three: impale yourself on their sword so they can't block and stab them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that Lan killed Demandred - I like Lan, think he's a cool guy, it just seemed... random.  And yeah, war is random, but there just seem to be more logical choices to have an encounter Demandred.  Mat would make sense because I could see Demandred going out of his way to kill him... I think Tam would be a good fit too, since they had established he was good with a sword earlier, he was the one who truly taught Rand to fight, and it would have been a nice Rule of Three progression: Gawyn - The Dragon's Brother - The Dragon's Father.  I could see Demandred hunting him down as well if he knew he was on the field, since he was trying to lure Llews Therin out.

 

As it is, Lan's not a bad choice, and certainly capable, but I don't know... felt random to me.  Especially the way it was carried out, with him just riding up to Demandred and attacking him.  That made the three duels feel forced.  They were three actual one on one duels, sought out and intentional, as opposed to just encounters that happened to take place via the course of the battle, and that's what felt redundant and repetitive about it.

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What can I say, Demandred stole the show while Moridin got played like a little bitch.  Boy did the Dark One ever back the wrong horse, in my mind Deme will always be Nae'blis.

 

I must admit that in the Deme v. Gawyn scene I was totally routing for Demandred.  I thought the idea of a non-chaneler taking down a Forsaken using the Bloodkinife ring was kind of cool, but not Gawyn!  I was like Gawyn can't be the one to take down Demandred.  I was very pleased to see that Gawyns tombstone will in fact read:

 

HERE LIES GAWYN TRAKAND

 

HE DIED AS HE LIVED,

ACTING STUPID

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Whoa whoa whoa...I think you're being a little generous, using the term "acting" stupid.

...As to suggest that it isn't his natural state of being, to begin with.

HERE LIES GAWYN TRAKAND

HE DIED, AS HE LIVED:

STUPID.

____


go light..! *twiddles thumbs

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It is readily apparent that Lan is the best, the authors ranked them as follows, Lan, Rand two handed, Galad, Gawyn.

 

Lan was tired, in his PoV it is stated that if he was fresh, thing would have been perhaps different.   LTT was undoubtedly the best swordsman in AoL, Demandred lost to him...he has been training to defeat LTT.  Demandred stated that Lan is LTT.

 

This has nothing to with proving who is the best swordsman (which once again has always been readily apparent), but someone had to kill Demandred and Rand Sedai was busy.

 

Yes, it could have been Mat or even Perrin in TAR.  Mat however never had any desire to face a Forsaken.

 

Tam? He is good, but he is not as good as say Galad, let alone being remotely close to Lan.

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Here's an important question- Who's voice did Bao the Wyld sound like in your head: Bane, or V (is for Vendetta)?  For me, they rattled back and forth.

Edited by mbuehner
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Here's an important question- Who's voice did Bao the Wyld sound like in your head: Bane, or V (is for Vendetta)?  For me, they rattled back and forth.

 

I pictured his voice to be rather terrifying, so I always imagined him sounding like Richard Simmons.

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reminded me of the Destroyer from Thor. pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew I AM SHINY. - BOW TO ME. 

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reminded me of the Destroyer from Thor. pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew I AM SHINY. - BOW TO ME. 

 

roflmao!!!

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Here's an important question- Who's voice did Bao the Wyld sound like in your head: Bane, or V (is for Vendetta)?  For me, they rattled back and forth.

Anakin Skywalker. A retarded, whiny little bitch.

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Do we have any information on the prophecies Demandred spoke of with the Sharans?

 

It seemed to me that he set himself up to take over Shara after he escaped Lews Therin's prison.

 

Do we have any more information about that?

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As I said, if it works for you all good Finnnssss. Again though just make the ground move to drop him or any of the other hundreds of things he could have easily done. Reducing a channeler from the AoL to throwing pebbles is pretty lame IMO. Saying he was too pressed to channel is a cop out.

 

I did kinda wonder at that myself. I Would have thought that Noises/explosions or even blinding lights aimed at him would have been effective. This is something which all Aes Sedai are taught as basic weaves. I say again Basic weaves because they are far easier and take far less than moving objects about using the OP. 

 

Many full blown AS in the WT can barely channel an object around, yet they can all make flashing lights, noises/explosions. These things would be utterly more confusing than mere rocks.

 

However it is obvious that Demandred wanted a small distraction, one aimed at LTT, I think he had practiced until the point which it was almost natural for him to channel whilst fighting so it took a small amount of concentration. His aim was not to distract LTT with the rocks, but to try and get LTT to mimic his own actions and thus because he was not prepared in advance to put himself at a severe disadvantage. That might have been what surprised him about Lan, he probably couldnt understand why LTT(Lan) didnt take the bait and then decided to drop the act and beat him on merit alone.

 

Thats my take on it anyway. Which even if I think he was an idiot for even bothering is one that makes a great deal of sense.

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Whoa whoa whoa...I think you're being a little generous, using the term "acting" stupid.

 

...As to suggest that it isn't his natural state of being, to begin with.

 

HERE LIES GAWYN TRAKAND

 

HE DIED, AS HE LIVED:

 

STUPID.

Love it!

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Do we have any information on the prophecies Demandred spoke of with the Sharans?

 

It seemed to me that he set himself up to take over Shara after he escaped Lews Therin's prison.

 

Do we have any more information about that?

We can only guess. The prophecies may include that he

  • can weave without weaves
  • owned only by the land
  • is the men's savior
  • will slay the Dragon
  • crawled through the depths of sorrow and have risen up to accept his glory

Oh, and we should get something on this in RoS.

Edited by wRAR
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Here's an important question- Who's voice did Bao the Wyld sound like in your head: Bane, or V (is for Vendetta)?  For me, they rattled back and forth.

Totally like Joffrey from Game of Thrones. So annyoing it gets sad after a while, truly. Some of the funniest lines in the book were IMO Mat's, explaining just how stupid Demandred soundsd. "He's a bit dotty" made me LOL and that amazing "I sure am growing tired of that man" had me closing the book and saying out loud "Yes, so am I."

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally loved Demandred. But he's got Little Bother Syndrome, and he's got it bad. 

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Here's an important question- Who's voice did Bao the Wyld sound like in your head: Bane, or V (is for Vendetta)?  For me, they rattled back and forth.

Totally like Joffrey from Game of Thrones. So annyoing it gets sad after a while, truly. Some of the funniest lines in the book were IMO Mat's, explaining just how stupid Demandred soundsd. "He's a bit dotty" made me LOL and that amazing "I sure am growing tired of that man" had me closing the book and saying out loud "Yes, so am I."

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally loved Demandred. But he's got Little Bother Syndrome, and he's got it bad. 

Heh, good one. Also reminded me of the Klingon taunting Kirk at the end of Undiscovered Country:

Chang: "I am constant as the Northern Star..."

Mccoy: "I'd give real money if he'd shut up."

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I have mixed feeligns about Demandred's arc.  Shara was more likely than Murandy because of the relative paltry size of Murandy and the boasting that Demandred made.

 

I also understand what he was doing.  He was showing history (or rather attempting to) that he was better than LTT in every way.  He was a better general (by far), he wanted to show he was better with swords, the power and even a better (more realistic) savior as well.  Sakaren (or whatever) was his Callandor, essentially.  He was prepared to meet Rand however Rand wanted to meet him. 

 

If Rand only sent pathetic minions after him, well then he'd carve them up and ask for seconds.  He didn't attack Matt's command post with the power as he thought it would make him open to counterattack and he wouldn't get the confrontation that he wanted.

 

In the end, and I even hate to go there, I think that AMoL should have been more than one book itself even after it got divided into three originally. 

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Demandred's fault was that he really didn't care about the Dark One winning.

 

He just wanted to beat Lews Therin.

 

He cared for little else.

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