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Padan Fain / Mordeth


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One thing that has confused me throughout this series is the status of Padan Fain / Mordeth as a darkfriend, or a kind of renegade darkfriend.  After the conglomoration of Padan Fain and Mordeth in Shadar Logoth, it appears by some of his actions that he is in league with the Dark One and cooperating with the other darkfriends and overall plans of the Dark One.  At other times, however, it seems as though he is free of the influence of the Dark One, and has become his own entity with his own plans, a sort of renegade darkfriend with strange abilities, able to control Trollocs and so on.

 

Can someone give me some clarity on this?

 

 

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Here is what RJ had to say...

 

RJ


His abiding concerns are hatred of Rand al'Thor (and to a lesser degree Mat and Perrin) because he blames them for what the Dark One did to him in order to turn him into the Shadow's Hound, and hatred for the Dark One because of what the Dark One did to him. He goes after Rand because Rand is the easiest target in his mind, but if he can take a swipe at the Dark One or the Dark One's minions in some way that he felt would cause real harm, he'd leap at it.


 

& more background:


 


Interview: Nov 21st, 2009

Matt Hatch

Ok. You mentioned that Mordeth was a man that had "power". You are reported as saying that his power was that "which he got by seeking out all of the evil things that weren’t related to the Shadow"...


Brandon Sanderson

He was seeking things that were related to the Shadow. I think that that might be a misquote. He was looking into the power of the Shadow in order to defeat it, was his goal. He was looking into everything. He was looking into things that were not necessarily related to the Dark One as well. He was looking for everything that he could get...


Matt Hatch

..previous to him arriving to Aridhol?


Brandon Sanderson

...Yeah...


Matt Hatch

...before he went to the King and became the counselor, Mordeth was this guy that went around searching for Power?


Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, he wanted to defeat the Dark One and he felt that he could find other ways to do it [...] He originally was good. He did not...he wasn’t this terrible person to begin with but he was looking to defeat the Dark One, to find a way to defeat the Shadow. And he looked into a lot of things he shouldn’t have looked into. There are evils that are not necessarily directly related to the Dark One, though everything evil kind of has...just as there are goods that are not related necessarily to the One Power...we are talking much as Perrin runs with wolves. This is a thing older than...there are other evils things that are old in a similar way...


Matt Hatch

...is the assumption then that he found one of these?


Brandon Sanderson

He did.


Matt Hatch

He found one or multiple?


Brandon Sanderson

He found many things of darkness. There is one in specific that is driving him but he knew too much. He found things he should not have gotten into and that is what turned him into...when he got there he was already corrupt. He still thought he was doing a good work. He still thought we are going to raise this Kingdom up and it is going to become this bastion against the Shadow, but he was already by then corrupted.


Matt Hatch

Is this same corrupting influence what corrupts everyone through the dagger itself?


Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Through him, yes. And even through his presence.

 

 

 

Interview: Dec 17th, 2011 Loialson
Is the Dark One's touch still on Fain?
Brandon Sanderson

Umm...yes, you don't abandon it that easily, but, the other touch on Fain is far more dominant.

LOIALSON

That would be Mordeth?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

LOIALSON

Is Fain still a Darkfriend?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I don't know if Fain counts as a Darkfriend anymore. I think Fain is his own faction.

LOIALSON

How is Fain getting Trollocs and Myrddraal to follow him if he is not a Darkfriend?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He is using...other means...they aren't following him because he is a Darkfriend. Certainly not [he smiles a bit here].

LOIALSON

Is Mat still attached in any way to Fain's dagger?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Read and Find out

 

.

Edited by Suttree
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What did he find? And that power, became Mashadar?

 

To recap: According to RJ and BS, there are powers in the world that are ancient and evil and not part of the DO (although, in a meta sense, "ALL" evil is somehow traced back to the DO, if only by association?) and Mordeth found one of these powers, it corrupted him and he in turn corrupted Aridhol, and this power manifested as Mashadar?

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I would think Mashadar is merely a product of the power, not the power itself. Fain conjures Mashadar in the latter books, yet it is clearly not the extent of his abilities.

 

Ordeth/Mordeth did not become Mashadar. It is unknown how/why Ordeth/Mordeth became trapped in Aridhol. My guess is that Ordeth released Mashadar without knowing what it was and it killed everyone in the city. Maybe someone realized it was him that conjured/controlled it and attempted to kill him. Ordeth/Mordeth, being a Power unto himself, became a wraith. So, Mashadar kills almost everyone, Mordeth gets killed, Mashadar completes the job of killing everyone, Mordeth finds himelf in need of a body and so is trapped. Mashadar continues its rampage since Mordeth no longer has the power to control it.

 

Fain, now, is something above even Ordeth/Mordeth in Power, though. He also has been distilled in SG. He got caught in the Black Wind in the Ways, which is a product of the madness on Saidin. So, Fain is influenced/empowered by three seperate evils. I would guess his killing fog is a combination of Mashadar and Machin Shin.

Edited by Whizbang
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  • 2 weeks later...

I would think Mashadar is merely a product of the power, not the power itself. Fain conjures Mashadar in the latter books, yet it is clearly not the extent of his abilities.

 

Ordeth/Mordeth did not become Mashadar. It is unknown how/why Ordeth/Mordeth became trapped in Aridhol. My guess is that Ordeth released Mashadar without knowing what it was and it killed everyone in the city. Maybe someone realized it was him that conjured/controlled it and attempted to kill him. Ordeth/Mordeth, being a Power unto himself, became a wraith. So, Mashadar kills almost everyone, Mordeth gets killed, Mashadar completes the job of killing everyone, Mordeth finds himelf in need of a body and so is trapped. Mashadar continues its rampage since Mordeth no longer has the power to control it.

 

Fain, now, is something above even Ordeth/Mordeth in Power, though. He also has been distilled in SG. He got caught in the Black Wind in the Ways, which is a product of the madness on Saidin. So, Fain is influenced/empowered by three seperate evils. I would guess his killing fog is a combination of Mashadar and Machin Shin.

According to Moraine, Mordeth approached the ruler of Aridhol and persuaded himself into becoming his councilor. Mordeth said the ony way to break the shadow was to become harder than the shadow, and this over the years gave birth to Mashadar. Mordeth became a spirit trapped in the city, and could consume the soul of any person....except one who was 'touched' by the DO. When they met...they merged, and it took some time before Mordeth was able to overcome Fain (I think when he stole the dagger back, it linked Mashadar to Mordeth). 

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