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Josh Brockwell

No Rand/Mat/Perrin Conglomeration!

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I hope this is not a topic that has already been addressed in a different forum, but I believe it is an important one for discussion.  Please reply with all opinions, ideas, theories, etc.. Thanks!

 

Did anyone else notice, from the time Rand, Mat, and Perrin start to display signs of Ta'veren, they never wind up at the same place together.  You will see two of them cross paths now and then, but it is only for a short time, then one of them will go off to do their own thing.  Obviously, their strong pull on the pattern reeked havoc on any place they stayed at too long.  Having all three together would be a nightmare for a town, let alone a large city!  But I thought for sure all three would need to literally be at the same place together in the end for the final confrontation with the DO.  

 

Obviously, we saw in MoL it took the combined efforts of all three to win at the end.  Each one taking advantage of their unique skills to fill a certain roll.  But the continued mention of the "pull" each one felt to each other, and more specifically, from Rand to the other two, him drawing them to him, I was waiting the whole time for them to quit whatever it was they were doing and fight their way down into the cave to join with Rand.  Combining their strength and bending the pattern to their will or something like that.  

 

Any thoughts?

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I really missed a trio reunion, but perhaps it shouldn't have been that surprising they haven't been on screen together since I think tGH, although they're in the same place (if not the same page) in tSR. 

 

Nonetheless, I'd be intrigued as to the affect of 3 taveren together, especially since their effects seem to differ slightly.

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But I thought for sure all three would need to literally be at the same place together in the end for the final confrontation with the DO.

 

I kind of thought this too.  Maybe something to do with them warping the pattern enough for some DO-defeating effect to be possible.  I hadn't really thought it through but I did think all three, and probably all three being at SG, would be crucial to the LB.

 

I suppose when it boils down to it Mat's key moment was defeating Fain which I don't know if anyone else (a channeler?) could have done?  But this happened so quickly that it didn't feel like a crucial moment in the LB.  And I don't think Fain needed to be defeated to defeat the DO as Fain has his own special brand of evil.  And Perrin's was defeating Lanfear so she didn't kill Moiraine and make Perrin kill Nynaeve, which in theory could have done by any other dreamwalker of equal strength (if there are any, maybe Egwene?).  Perrin and Mat just didn't seem quite as crucial as I had thought they would.  I think what I'm trying to say (very badly!) is that I was expecting them to need to be at TG with Rand because of their ta'veren-ness rather than the skills they had acquired.

 

I would have liked to see them together before the end anyway, and also a reunion with the three ta'veren plus Egwene and Nynaeve, and possibly some of the other main characters.  I'm not sure whether RJ would have written or planned a scene with the three of them or not.  On the one hand, I feel like BS avoided writing reunions between characters because a lot of the reunions had built up big expectations from the fans (e.g. Moiraine-Lan, Egwene-Cads, Moiraine-Siuan), and possibly because he didn't think he could meet these.  On the other hand, RJ didn't seem to pander to the nice idea of everyone getting back together again as otherwise we might have had some more reunions earlier in the series.

 

For me, the fact that Rand, Mat, and Perrin never reunited was a major disappointment and left the series lacking closure for me.  Even something minor like them briefly acknowledging each other in a battle, or Mat and Perrin talking together over Rand's funeral pyre would have been quite nice.

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@rhienne,

a reunion between egwene and cadsuane? since when?

they have had nothing to do with each other.

"cadsuane entered,and rand nodded to her,as if giving permission."

to the best of my knowledge,this is the only time(field of merrilor meeting)

that both of them were in the same place.

and as you might remember,cadsuane never said a word in that meeting,not

to egwene nor to anyone else.

Edited by jack of shadows

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I would have liked to see Egwene pull her bullying-tantrum stuff with Cadsuane just once telling her she's the Amyrlin and she has to respect her authority.  It would have been cool to see Cadsuane laugh in her face.  Or just give her the raised eyebrow then walk away.

 

And technically, Rand, Mat and Perrin were all 3 at Shayol Ghul when it all ended.  I agree, all three together in the exact place at the exact time didn't happen....but they were all 3 in the vicinity.  And Perrin was the only one who had to be there when Rand needed him.  (Dumais Wells and to kill Lanfear).  I never bought into the theories of all three of them becoming one or any of that stuff.  (But I also never bought into the body-swap theory either).

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I would have liked to see Egwene pull her bullying-tantrum stuff with Cadsuane just once telling her she's the Amyrlin and she has to respect her authority.  It would have been cool to see Cadsuane laugh in her face.  Or just give her the raised eyebrow then walk away.

 

And technically, Rand, Mat and Perrin were all 3 at Shayol Ghul when it all ended.  I agree, all three together in the exact place at the exact time didn't happen....but they were all 3 in the vicinity.  And Perrin was the only one who had to be there when Rand needed him.  (Dumais Wells and to kill Lanfear).  I never bought into the theories of all three of them becoming one or any of that stuff.  (But I also never bought into the body-swap theory either).

Rather a good point, about Rand Mat and Perrin all being at Shayol Ghul (though doing separate things) at the same time when the DO is defeated. I had always supposed they would come together at that crucial moment, and was pleased that it came through.

 

As for Egwene v Cadsuane, sorry, but Cad should have been taken down a peg or three, and Eggy ought to have been the one to do it. Face it:  all Aes Sedai are bullying snots, but I feel that, at least in the last three books, that Eggy earned her status and then some (and her sacrifice didn't hurt either). Cadsuane seemed to me more reputation/legend and less substance.

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 As for Egwene v Cadsuane, sorry, but Cad should have been taken down a peg or three, and Eggy ought to have been the one to do it. Face it:  all Aes Sedai are bullying snots, but I feel that, at least in the last three books, that Eggy earned her status and then some (and her sacrifice didn't hurt either). Cadsuane seemed to me more reputation/legend and less substance.

 Cads had been taken down a peg or three. By a toothless wilder...

 

WH

 In truth, Cadsuane sympathized with her. Somewhat. It was a lesson not everyone could learn in the Tower. She herself, full of pride in her new shawl and her own strength, had been taught by a near toothless wilder at a farm in the heart of the Black Hills.

It is one of the defining moments in her life and a large reason she always treats people according to their own actions/tries to better those around her.

 

As for "more legend/less substance" let's have RJ address that...

 

There are the usual tales expected of a Green, only more of them. Riots suppressed and wars stopped single-handedly; rulers steadied on their thrones, or pulled from them, sometimes toppled openly and sometimes more subtly (toppling rulers was something Aes Sedai had not really done much of in the last thousand years, but Cadsuane seemed in many ways a throwback). Rescuing people carried into the Blight or kidnaped by dangerous bands of Darkfriends, breaking up murderous rings of Darkfriends plaguing villages and towns, and exposing powerful Darkfriends who tried to kill her to protect themselves. There are dozens, even hundreds, of improbable and sometimes seemingly impossible tales.....When Siuan Sanche and Moiraine Damodred had reason to research Cadsuane because of their encounter with her shortly after reaching the shawl, they found many stories regarding Cadsuane. All of the ones that they were able to trace down turned out to be true, and in some cases the truth was more than the story.

She has earned her stripes many times over.

Edited by Suttree

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I never really seen Egwene & Cadsuane likely to come into conflict. Especially after the wise ones sing Egwene's praises to Cadsuane. It is evident the Wise Ones do not like AS, and yet Sorilea holds Egwene in high regard.

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Perrin and Mat, as strong as they were, did not seem to effect the larger sourrounding in the same way as Rand, therefore it would be reasonable to expect no problems with that

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I really wanted to see Cads kiss Egwenes ring and call her Mother, then tell her that's the first time she's shown any Amirlyn respect since being raised.

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Though I would've loved to see these 3 back together, realistically for the plot and how it played out, it didn't seem to be a possibility

 

And wait, weren't Mat and Perrin there at Rand's funeral? Or did they really just ditch him without even saying goodbye? Was it implied anywhere?

Edited by Sanity's_Theif

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I think Perrin might have been at Rand's funeral.  He was certainly in the area when Rand was dying.  However, Mat wasn't.  I think he just stayed with the Seanchan, and didn't reunite with the other characters, which I found particularly disappointing.  The scene between Perrin and Nynaeve was really the only character reunion we got.

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Mat was needed to stabilize Imperial rule in Seandar, presumabely. I wish there HAD been a reunion at SG at the funeral; despite Rand not being dead and cut off from the source 

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I think Perrin might have been at Rand's funeral.  He was certainly in the area when Rand was dying.  However, Mat wasn't.  I think he just stayed with the Seanchan, and didn't reunite with the other characters, which I found particularly disappointing.  The scene between Perrin and Nynaeve was really the only character reunion we got.

 

Yea that's pretty messed up, how they just ditched him, didn't even give him a thought, I wonder if RJ wrote that or BS cause it seems out of place, but I feel like it might be something RJ would've done

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I think Perrin might have been at Rand's funeral.  He was certainly in the area when Rand was dying.  However, Mat wasn't.  I think he just stayed with the Seanchan, and didn't reunite with the other characters, which I found particularly disappointing.  The scene between Perrin and Nynaeve was really the only character reunion we got.

 

Yea that's pretty messed up, how they just ditched him, didn't even give him a thought, I wonder if RJ wrote that or BS cause it seems out of place, but I feel like it might be something RJ would've done

 

Everything in the epilgoue was RJ apart from Cadsuane's POV.  Of course we don't know whether RJ would have had them reunite in a final chapter prior to the epilogue or not.

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I think Perrin might have been at Rand's funeral.  He was certainly in the area when Rand was dying.  However, Mat wasn't.  I think he just stayed with the Seanchan, and didn't reunite with the other characters, which I found particularly disappointing.  The scene between Perrin and Nynaeve was really the only character reunion we got.

 

Yea that's pretty messed up, how they just ditched him, didn't even give him a thought, I wonder if RJ wrote that or BS cause it seems out of place, but I feel like it might be something RJ would've done

 

Everything in the epilgoue was RJ apart from Cadsuane's POV.  Of course we don't know whether RJ would have had them reunite in a final chapter prior to the epilogue or not.

 

Damn huh? For me it's hard to tell who wrote what parts, besides Mat at some parts and only because someone pointed it out to me. Is it known what other parts of the last 3 books RJ actually wrote? Was the ToG sequence written by RJ? Cause I feel like it was

 

Also, I've heard someone say BS didn't use all the notes left by RJ? Is it true? If it is, then what the hell? If I were him I would've spent a solid year re-reading the series and going over the notes, you think there's any chance BS would release the last 3 books again as 1 or 2 volumes with some stuff re-written? I feel like a big group of fans could point out how RJ would've written it and have it changed from the way BS wrote it.

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I don't think its very easy to tell just from reading, although some parts do seem obvious (especially Mat).  We only know about the epilogue because BS and co told us it was all RJ's work apart from the Cadsuane POV.  Other than that, I think RJ only had about 200 pages written or roughly written of the last three books (maybe less than this?).  I think BS did use the notes, but struggled because sometimes they weren't clear or there were multiple suggestions about how something could happen, and a lot of the plot he did have to just make up from scratch.  He had two members of staff who searched the notes for the entire series when he needed info rather than doing it himself.

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Link to who wrote what thread...

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/79568-who-wrote-what-full-spoilers/?p=2793521

 

From reading some of the interviews, the choice of style was deliberate by BS as he felt that trying to imitate RJ would be parody

 

Wow, no I don't agree with his reasoning, I would've tried to imitate the original author as much as possible and take community input for what seems off and then fix it

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This question was asked at the AMoL panel at JordanCon today and Brandon said emphatically that there was no Rand/Matt/Perrin reunion. He did say however that the Moraine/Suian reunion happened off camera.

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