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Mangecoeur

Is It A Loss Or A Gain ?

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Then, what of this "weaving without weaves", because Demandred was obviously weaving the One Power during the Last Battle, with the assistance of a full circle of 72...

But, if Robert Jordan wished to let this remain a mystery then so be it, I guess... We shall be free to multiply theories upon theories..!

The "weaving without weaves" is just Demandred having access to the True Power I think, which neither male or female can detect!

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I think the theory where he can now use the pattern makes sense since it seems (to me at least) that he reshaped the pattern to keep Lan alive.

 

Huh.  I didn't catch that that was what Rand was doing when I read it.  But as I think back, I think you may be right.  And I did have the impression that Lan had received a mortal wound from Demandred, so I was very surprised that he survived.  I need to re-read that section -- it looks like I missed the significance of what Rand did (or may have done) for Lan.

 

Didn't Rand himself Sheath the Sword and survive in tGH?  It isn't necessarily a fatal move.

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Then, what of this "weaving without weaves", because Demandred was obviously weaving the One Power during the Last Battle, with the assistance of a full circle of 72...

But, if Robert Jordan wished to let this remain a mystery then so be it, I guess... We shall be free to multiply theories upon theories..!

The "weaving without weaves" is just Demandred having access to the True Power I think, which neither male or female can detect!

 

ROBERT MOREAU
The person before me asked why Demandred did not use the True Power during the Last Battle.
BRANDON SANDERSON
Sanderson said he was wary of the True Power and everything that came with it. "He may have been the smartest of all the Forsaken for not wanting to use the True Power."

Aside from that, there's no evidence in the text that Demandred has been making any significant use of the TP - no saa, no signs of addiction, nothing.

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There is a LOT of debate over how Rand lit his pipe. People have asked Brandon Sanderson, the new author, how Rand lit the pipe, but Brandon has said that he does not know because Jordan never explained it. What is clear is that Rand was not channeling either the One Power or the True Power.

 

Of course, readers have speculated on the answer. Some think that Rand no longer channels saidin or saidar, but the True Source as a whole. Personally, I think it has more to do with Rand's experiences fighting the Dark One outside of the Pattern. In that fight, Rand saw the Pattern for what it was, and by thought and will was able to mold it into completely new realities for a short time. Rand was able to bring some of this insight back with him. Another way to think of it is that the real world is now kind of like the World of Dreams to Rand, and he's able to shape aspects of reality just by thinking it. Some cultures in this fantasy world refer to living as a dream that they will eventually wake from. I do not think this gives Rand total power over shaping the threads of the Pattern, but it does give him the ability to do little things. You're welcome to join in the speculation.

 

Readers also believe that Rand has become the fulfillment of the Sharan prophecies. What little we do know is that the Wyld will kill the Dragon and that he will be able to "weave without weaves." Rand has put the role of the Dragon to rest. I think the "weaving without weaves" part is self explanatory.

 

As an aside, does your username basically translate to "Heart Eater" or "Eating Heart?"

I found it best explained that with the way Rand resealed the bore from within T'A'R once everything was all said and done Rand could manipulate things in small ways in the waking world.  Sort of a trick picked up much in the way things can be manipulated in the World of Dreams he can now do to small effect while awake now.  Whether it is some residue that lingers from the massive amount of shifting, shaping, and repairing the pattern with the DO locked in the epic fight of wills in T'A'R or something new or old come again it isn't fully explained but I was able to gather the reasoning behind it even if my explanation is still slightly lacking.

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Chapter 41: "I kill without weaves. Only I, your Wyld, could have done

so." Chapter 22: "I am Bao, the Wyld. He Who Is Owned Only by the Land.

The dragonslayer." There might be a couple of other hints at Sharan

prophecy as well, but the parallels between He Who Is Owned Only by the

Land and the Dragon is one with the land should be fairly clear,

likewise the idea that Rand can do stuff without weaves and the Wyld can

kill without weaves, swords, etc.

 

Thanks for that.  I had forgotten the chapter 22 quote.  I'm not convinced that the chapter 41 quote necessarily refers to Sharan prophecy, though it certainly could.

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I think the DR could always manipulate the pattern...he just didn't know it. 

 

The DO needs the dragon soul for total victory.  The DO may need the Dragon Soul to change/destroy the Pattern.  Perhaps the dragon soul has some sort of special role with the pattern that the DO, with all of his infinite power, cannot fulfill.   Rand realizes his special role when he "learns the DOs secrets"

 

I don't think it's a result of his weaving possibilities during his fight with the DO.  Brandon told us he added the battle as it was not in RJs notes.  If BS added it, and is being truthful about not knowing how the pipe was lit, we can conclude his battle against the DO did not contribute to the pipe being lit.

 

Moreover he is one with the land. To me that means so much more than having a drought because you had a mood swing.

 

 

it could just be a residual effect of touching the True Source in its purest form (See his sealing of the bore).

Edited by MauricXe

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But when Rand, aka Dragon Reborn, sealed the DO once again, he was something more, he was ta'veren, he was the most powerful channeler of this Age, he was Lews Therin Telamon and all of his precedent lives so that he indeed reached for the purest form of Power, the True Source where somehow all the Five Powers mengled to become the Light

He wove something majestic, a pattern of interlaced saidar and saidin in their pure forms. Not Fire, not Spirit, not Water, not Earth, not Air. Purity. Light itself.- Chapter 49.

So, because he was something more, he could achieve the channel or manipulate or have access to something that was more than the original Powers : Light. 

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But when Rand, aka Dragon Reborn, sealed the DO once again, he was something more, he was ta'veren, he was the most powerful channeler of this Age, he was Lews Therin Telamon and all of his precedent lives

MK: Did Rand have other memories, or just Lews Therin’s?

BWS: No, just Lews Therins. He did not gain any other memories of past lives. But I tell you, having several hundred years of Lews Therin, is a whole lot of stuff!

Agree that he gained new awareness during the fight with the DO but just wanted to clarify the above.

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Oh, my bad, then ! I was certain once he recovered all his memories from being Lews Therin, he recovered the ones of all his precedents lives but yeah, hundred years is quite something ! 

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I think the theory where he can now use the pattern makes sense since it seems (to me at least) that he reshaped the pattern to keep Lan alive.

 

Huh.  I didn't catch that that was what Rand was doing when I read it.  But as I think back, I think you may be right.  And I did have the impression that Lan had received a mortal wound from Demandred, so I was very surprised that he survived.  I need to re-read that section -- it looks like I missed the significance of what Rand did (or may have done) for Lan.

 

Didn't Rand himself Sheath the Sword and survive in tGH?  It isn't necessarily a fatal move.

 

I don't remember, but that certainly may be correct.  I need to re-read the part about Lan's wound and his survival in AMoL.  I just remember being a bit confused as to how he survived, as if maybe I had missed something somewhere in the text.

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I think the theory where he can now use the pattern makes sense since it seems (to me at least) that he reshaped the pattern to keep Lan alive.

 

Huh.  I didn't catch that that was what Rand was doing when I read it.  But as I think back, I think you may be right.  And I did have the impression that Lan had received a mortal wound from Demandred, so I was very surprised that he survived.  I need to re-read that section -- it looks like I missed the significance of what Rand did (or may have done) for Lan.

 

Didn't Rand himself Sheath the Sword and survive in tGH?  It isn't necessarily a fatal move.

 

I don't remember, but that certainly may be correct.  I need to re-read the part about Lan's wound and his survival in AMoL.  I just remember being a bit confused as to how he survived, as if maybe I had missed something somewhere in the text.

He did survive but only because Lanfear healed him. If she hadnt he would have died, also Lan says himself in TGH that you sheath the sword only when you know youve been beat to also take the life of your advisary. It is a death wish

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I agree with what Patrick said, just chiming in to say that there is precedent for this throughout real world mystical tradition (both the "world is a dream" part and the gnostic awakening/changing reality part) so, if you're interested, look up gnosticism or maybe Chaos Magic (but especially gnosticism.)

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Maybe a bit far-fetched, but these are my thoughts

 

The Creator = Good&Bad together

Rand = the "flesh" version of this concept of Good&Bad, without realizing this, obviously

(I've had this idea throughout practically the whole series)

 

He doesn't kill the DO, he merely pushes it back into almost non-existence, but "it" is still there, in the back of his own mind

 

Rand has (re)learned how to change the pattern, during his fight with his evil version. In the end, they merge, with the good having the upperhand.

At this moment, Rand still doesn't realize he's actually the creator, because he still sees the DO and himself as 2 entirely different entities.

This is why he first tries to channel his pipe with Saidin, Saidar and even the True Power. In a moment of "vain", he tries to do it the way the Creator would have done it, and to his own surprise, succeeds.

At THIS moment, he smiles and realizes what he is.

 

He decides he wants to let the world exercise it's own complete free will, and rides into the sunlight, enjoying the time he's there, in the flesh

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I hardly see how the Creator could be Good and Evil, since He consciously imprisoned the Dark One for being pure Evil. He is just the Balance that allows the Pattern to weave following His schemes. Balance is beyond the mere human view of things as being bad or being good. 

Plus, every human is good and evil made flesh. No one is just good, or just evil (perhaps safe for Padan Fain...), since Rand showed when fighting the DO that a world ruled only by the Light will be as terrible as one only ruled by the Shadow (their versions of good and evil). Humans need their own free will, the right to a choice, to be tempted, would it be as much a curse as a blessing.  

 

However, I REALLY like your own interpretation of the ending, albeit maybe a tad too extravagant !

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So I thought about it and it seems no one has thought that maybe Rand has no power at all. Before the bore was opened there was a phenomenon known as the Standing Flows. It is possible that Rand's pipe is some sort of Angrial. If the standing flows were restored it may only need thought to activate the pipe. He did refer to it as his impossible pipe.

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So I thought about it and it seems no one has thought that maybe Rand has no power at all. Before the bore was opened there was a phenomenon known as the Standing Flows. It is possible that Rand's pipe is some sort of Angrial. If the standing flows were restored it may only need thought to activate the pipe. He did refer to it as his impossible pipe.

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Oh, my bad, then ! I was certain once he recovered all his memories from being Lews Therin, he recovered the ones of all his precedents lives but yeah, hundred years is quite something ! 

When he is Anointed in the light he gains all the memories of his past lives; when he returns to mortal earth, his other memories fade to just impressions, if anything and he only retains his own and Lews Therins memories.

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My take on it.

 

If there are neither beginnings nor endings to the turnings of the wheel of time, then there is no point at which a Creator began it's turning, only a point at which one who was perceived as a creator began its turning. Always was, always will be. And because the wheel of time repeats, and comes upon itself again, it will return to a point at which one who is perceived as a creator seems to begin a turning anew. The destruction of an old Age yields the creation of a new one. That perception of creation myth is developed over multiple Ages, because of the truth being lost to Legend and Myth. Small truths, such as the Dark One being sealed away at "a" beginning remain. That sealing comes when, in some moment of revelation, the Dragon, realizes the true nature of the Power, that it is all One, that Saidin, Saidar, Shaitan and Shaisam are all simply smaller elements of One single Great Power, one that requires no silly hand gestures (not that any ever did, as the Aiel well know) but mere thought.

 

It's called the Third Age by some, but the truth of the numbers is not actually known and cannot be known. Perhaps it's the Last Battle because it's actually the Last Age of the Cycle.

 

$0.02

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