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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Barid Bel Medar

Ask Simple questions, get simple answers (aMoL version covering the entire series)

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two questions:

 

1.  Whats the difference between a dreadlord and a black ajah aes sedai or DF Ashaman?

 

2.  Is there any reason why Jeaine Caide didnt just blast Thom into neverland or any of those other BA that tried to get past him?  Why try sneak past an old man when you can just balefire his old a$$?

 

Thom is bonded to Moiraine as her Warder and if he was killed, she would have sensed that and therefore would have been alerted to the attack.

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@ Hagazussa (bit late)

 

Rand was dying. His lifeblood flowed from him, and beyond that, the amount of the powers he held would soon burn him away.

P 890 Orbit ed

 

As the use of the power didn't kill him, the ability was burned out (a nice contrast to the creation of DM). Note that being burned out more like being in a stedding, there is no sense of the power at all, only the memory of its use. Being severed is more painful as the source is sensed just out of reach.

 

I guess it might have been nice to have a more explicit sentence like "strangely he did not feel the loss" but oh well.

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@ Hagazussa (bit late)

 

 

Rand was dying. His lifeblood flowed from him, and beyond that, the amount of the powers he held would soon burn him away.

P 890 Orbit ed

 

As the use of the power didn't kill him, the ability was burned out (a nice contrast to the creation of DM). Note that being burned out more like being in a stedding, there is no sense of the power at all, only the memory of its use. Being severed is more painful as the source is sensed just out of reach.

 

I guess it might have been nice to have a more explicit sentence like "strangely he did not feel the loss" but oh well.

Rand being burned out sounds plausible to me, as well. Some thoughts on this:

1. As noted by Hyronimus, according to the books, a burned out channeler could no longer even sense the True Source, which in itself is quite different from the end effect of stilling.

2. Thus, it is logical to compare being burned out to being in a stedding or inside the effective area of the Far Madding Guardian.

3. The sense of loss is still there, but it is possible it is considerably less acute without the "taunting presence of the Source" (as compared to being stilled/gentled).

4. Entering a stedding/Far Madding, however, is reversible, so it lacks the main psycological aspect of severing, and therefore is not a perfect parallel.

5. The only burned out character we see in the books is Setalle Anan, who is believed to be Martine Janata from the Brown Ajah, who used to study ter'angreal in the WT.

6. Setalle apparently managed to survive for several decades after being burned out (about 25 years), as oposed to stillied/gentled channelers - a couple of years at most.

7. This would support the idea that being burned out is generally easier to handle than being stilled.

8. It is strange, though, that no sense of loss whatsoever is mentioned in Rand's PoV.

 

My simple question is: How come the Seanchan possess the knowledge to create ter'angreal (a'dam, bloodknife rings, crystal throne, domination band), which is considered to be lost to Aes Sedai since the Breaking?

Ok, the a'dam was created by Deain Sedai. She could also have shown other channellers how to create copies of it I guess. How about the other items, though? Any ideas? (Note that according to Demandred in AMoL, the weave created by the bloodknife rings - shroud of darkness or something of the sort - dates back to the AOL).

Also, how is Deain Sedai able to create ter'angreal more that 2000 years after the Breaking?

Edited by behemoth

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Seanchan can only create a'dam. As to how, Elayne can do it, why couldn't others have the Talent? Once the pattern is known it can be taught to any damane that have some affinity for it. Healing was lost in Seanchan, other Talents could of been retained instead, luck of the draw style.

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From Demanded's point of view, while he has Taim Shielded and is drawing the True Power through him, he notes to himself that drawing The True Power Though someone risks burning them out.

We know that channeling is a thing of the body and soul,what we don't know is if Moridin was burned out; does that mean that any subsequent soul that inhabits the body will be unable to channel?

Another scenario is has been mentioned,Rand was burned out himself from drawing too much of the one, power; meaning his soul lost the ability to channel. It could even be a combination of the two.

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward stilling/burning out being a severing of the body to the source, and not of the soul.

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From Demanded's point of view, while he has Taim Shielded and is drawing the True Power through him, he notes to himself that drawing The True Power Though someone risks burning them out.

We know that channeling is a thing of the body and soul,what we don't know is if Moridin was burned out; does that mean that any subsequent soul that inhabits the body will be unable to channel?

Another scenario is has been mentioned,Rand was burned out himself from drawing too much of the one, power; meaning his soul lost the ability to channel. It could even be a combination of the two.

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward stilling/burning out being a severing of the body to the source, and not of the soul.

It does not carry over. It's just for that lifetime.

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From Demanded's point of view, while he has Taim Shielded and is drawing the True Power through him, he notes to himself that drawing The True Power Though someone risks burning them out.

We know that channeling is a thing of the body and soul,what we don't know is if Moridin was burned out; does that mean that any subsequent soul that inhabits the body will be unable to channel?

Another scenario is has been mentioned,Rand was burned out himself from drawing too much of the one, power; meaning his soul lost the ability to channel. It could even be a combination of the two.

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward stilling/burning out being a severing of the body to the source, and not of the soul.

It does not carry over. It's just for that lifetime.
That would point more toward what I was saying in the end, Moridin's body is unable to channel. No way to know for sure though.

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two questions:

 

1.  Whats the difference between a dreadlord and a black ajah aes sedai or DF Ashaman?

 

2.  Is there any reason why Jeaine Caide didnt just blast Thom into neverland or any of those other BA that tried to get past him?  Why try sneak past an old man when you can just balefire his old a$$?

 

Thom is bonded to Moiraine as her Warder and if he was killed, she would have sensed that and therefore would have been alerted to the attack.

that is true - but none of the BA knew that fact, or did they?  I must have skipped that chapter.

 

And anyway - Mo and Nyn couldnt channel at all until Rand came out of the void, as he was in charge of the circle until some point that wasn't clear to me when.  

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What I would like to know, and its probably on another thread somewhere...just point me there.

 

How did all you spoil sports know a "body swap" was going to happen between Rand and Moridin?

 

Even after reading aMoL - i don't understand how it happened either...did Alivia do it, or Rand?  

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two questions:

 

1.  Whats the difference between a dreadlord and a black ajah aes sedai or DF Ashaman?

 

2.  Is there any reason why Jeaine Caide didnt just blast Thom into neverland or any of those other BA that tried to get past him?  Why try sneak past an old man when you can just balefire his old a$$?

 

Thom is bonded to Moiraine as her Warder and if he was killed, she would have sensed that and therefore would have been alerted to the attack.

that is true - but none of the BA knew that fact, or did they?  I must have skipped that chapter.

 

And anyway - Mo and Nyn couldnt channel at all until Rand came out of the void, as he was in charge of the circle until some point that wasn't clear to me when.  

The BA didn't know who was in charge of the mass amounts of power being weilded.  Plus, the BA could only sense the Saidar which leads to my opinion they didn't want to tip anyone off that they were coming.

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@ Hagazussa (bit late)

 

Quote

Rand was dying. His lifeblood flowed from him, and beyond that, the amount of the powers he held would soon burn him away.

P 890 Orbit ed

 

Thank you for the information.

 

1. As noted by Hyronimus, according to the books, a burned out channeler

could no longer even sense the True Source, which in itself is quite

different from the end effect of stilling.

 

2. Thus, it is logical to compare being burned out to being in a

stedding or inside the effective area of the Far Madding Guardian.

 

I do think it is easier to survive being burned out than being severed as the constant presence of the Power that the poor channeler can not touch is not there as a reminder, that do not mean it is easy or is something that a burned out channeler will just shrug at. First of all several places in the books it is clear that Aes Sedai fear being burned out as much as they fear stilling, and it is said that very few survive. Also channelers need to channel, even if you do not destroy their abilities but just keep them from it they will eventually start to feel a great loss. During the Breaking the male Aes Sedai who his in the Steddings could not bring themselves to stay, they knew that madness and a horrible death awaited them on the outside but they still left the Steddings as they could not stand the loss of the Power, that combined with knowing that burning out is permanent makes it a pretty bad fate even if severing perhaps is even worse.

 

3. The sense of loss is still there, but it is possible it is

considerably less acute without the "taunting presence of the Source"

(as compared to being stilled/gentled).

 

It might be less acute but according to the characters in the books most who suffer that fate die so it is still something bad enough that if Rand had been burned out he should have noted it, it is like being shot in the shoulder is better than being shot in the head, but you should still notice that you have a bullet hole in you.

 

4. Entering a stedding/Far Madding, however, is reversible, so it lacks the main psycological aspect of severing, and therefore is not a perfect parallel.

 

Okey it might be that the loss after burning out only starts once it has been a while since the channeler last drew on the Power. With severing the loss is there immediately, Leane notes a hole in her mind as soon as she wakes up, however burning out might be different. We know most channelers go a bit itchy if they go more than a day or two without channeling so it might be that Rand will feel the loss later, but I sort of do not want that, I do not want the main character to wander off happily only to be hit with the loss of the Power a few days later.

 

5. The only burned out character we see in the books is Setalle Anan,

who is believed to be Martine Janata from the Brown Ajah, who used to

study ter'angreal in the WT.

 

Setalle is the only named character, but it is mentioned that Aes Sedai burn themselves out from time to time and all of them fear it and only a very few survive. Setalle also did not exactly say shit happens and wandered of happily, she tell Matt (If I do not remember it wrong) that the man who was to become her husband had found her sick and near death and it was because he nursed her back to health and gave her something to live for that she survived. So being burned out is bad, it might not be as bad as severing, we do not know, but it is bad enough to kill most who go through it so it is something someone would notice if they go through it.

 

6. Setalle apparently managed to survive for several decades after being

burned out (about 25 years), as oposed to stillied/gentled channelers -

a couple of years at most.

 

Well it is said in the books that most who are burned out die, just as it is said several places that it is possible for someone who are severed to survive if they find something to live for, so Setalle do not really indicate one thing or the other, she found something to live for, a husband, children and a inn to run.

 

7. This would support the idea that being burned out is generally easier to handle than being stilled.

 

I do not agree at Setalle could just be one of the lucky ones who managed to find something to live for. When that is said, even if it is easier, it is not THAT much easier and that is the problem here. and is not experiencing any loss, or any negative feelings about loosing his ability to channel at all. It is not that he accept it and think that okey well he never wanted the ability in the first place so he will make it through it, no, he is just relieved, and that is not how being burned out works if it was then the Aes Sedai in the books would not fear it so much and then most who go through it would not die. The only possibility if Rand is actually burned out for him not feeling the loss is if the Creator protect him from it as a gift.

 

8. It is strange, though, that no sense of loss whatsoever is mentioned in Rand's PoV.

 

Yeah it is not the ability of someone burned out to manage to survive I question, if and had felt loss but said to hell with it and used that stubbornness of his to decide to just get though it that I would not have questioned at all, but that he fell no loss, no pain, no nothing, just relief, that do not fit with the concept of him being burned out.

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What I would like to know, and its probably on another thread somewhere...just point me there.

 

How did all you spoil sports know a "body swap" was going to happen between Rand and Moridin?

 

Even after reading aMoL - i don't understand how it happened either...did Alivia do it, or Rand?  

 

From what I have pieced together from the early "body swap" theories, there is a bit of foreshadowing in the books.  We know that the DO can move someone's soul around.  We know that there is a connection between Rand and Moridin.  We also have some of Min's viewings.  I think Lucker's has/had a Body Swap thread in the General Discussions section.

 

You aren't alone on how it happened.  I am guessing it was Rand that did it.  In the book, it happened without going into any detail.  As far as Alivia, she "help Rand die" by assisting him get away at the end.  It isn't that she physically killed him, but she help him put the old life behind him.

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What I would like to know, and its probably on another thread somewhere...just point me there.

How did all you spoil sports know a "body swap" was going to happen between Rand and Moridin?

 

Well there was a good deal of clear foreshadowing in the dreams and Min's viewings. For instance:

 

“I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't.” ACoS, Ch. 33

Edited by Suttree

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In TDR Ch 6 after Rand leaves the camp and the group are gathered in Moiraine's hut we are told ...

 

Moiraine answered calmly. “Aes Sedai learn to shield their dreams. I do it without thinking, when I sleep. Warders are
given something much the same in the bonding. The Gaidin could not do what they must if the Shadow could steal into their dreams. We
are all vulnerable when we sleep, and the Shadow is strong in the night.”

 

Lanfear later tells Rand that she could break through the shielding he put on his dreams if she chose to, but that he wouldn't like it (sorry, don't have the quote handy I think in LoC) which would seem to indicate that he would at least be aware of her breaking the protection.

 

So my question is how did Hessalam influence Gareth Bryne without him or Suian noticing or realizing it?

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So my question is how did Hessalam influence Gareth Bryne without him or Suian noticing or realizing it?

I may be very wrong here, but I have a vague recollection that Semirhage used TAR to locate the generals and then stepped out of TAR to perform compulsion in the waking world?

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So my question is how did Hessalam influence Gareth Bryne without him or Suian noticing or realizing it?

I may be very wrong here, but I have a vague recollection that Semirhage used TAR to locate the generals and then stepped out of TAR to perform compulsion in the waking world?

That was for Compulsion, but she was messing with all of the General's dreams. Perrin saw her do it with Bashere and all 4 Generals were described as behaving tired and not sleeping well, but Ituralde was the only one we have direct evidence of the dreams being altered because he started dreaming about chowing down on his own children. She was Traveling back to the real world in each location too, but it seems I remember all four of them complaining about bad dreams at separate times.

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Does the traveling between SG and the FoM during the LB constitute time travel?

Only in the same way that astronauts are time travelers when then return from being in orbit.

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In TDR Ch 6 after Rand leaves the camp and the group are gathered in Moiraine's hut we are told ...

 

Moiraine answered calmly. “Aes Sedai learn to shield their dreams. I do it without thinking, when I sleep. Warders are

given something much the same in the bonding. The Gaidin could not do what they must if the Shadow could steal into their dreams. We

are all vulnerable when we sleep, and the Shadow is strong in the night.”

 

Lanfear later tells Rand that she could break through the shielding he put on his dreams if she chose to, but that he wouldn't like it (sorry, don't have the quote handy I think in LoC) which would seem to indicate that he would at least be aware of her breaking the protection.

 

So my question is how did Hessalam influence Gareth Bryne without him or Suian noticing or realizing it?

IMO, someone forgot that Bryne as a Warder received that protection.

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very simple questions and I'm not sure I ever got a direct answer -

 

How does Eqwene know who Moridin is?

 

Why doesn't Mat recognize Egeanin?

 

Did the 100 members of the band volunteer to live in HInderstrap?

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Does the traveling between SG and the FoM during the LB constitute time travel?

Only in the same way that astronauts are time travelers when then return from being in orbit.

The only reason I ask is because it seems like the Shadow could have greatly benefitted from the time distortions, both in building numbers by breeding trollocs in specific ways, and potentially extending training time for people involved.

 

This is based on the assumption that the time warp has been effecting the pattern for more than just a few months, which, to me, seems likely but someone probably has a quote to prove me wrong.

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Who was the Hero that galloped away from the group right after appearing? I thouthg it was Birgitte but we have the Noal scene right after this one so it may be him too. 

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Who was the Hero that galloped away from the group right after appearing? I thouthg it was Birgitte but we have the Noal scene right after this one so it may be him too.

Birgitte did not appear with the other heroes. She arose right over her own beheaded body.

The rider was Noel going to save Olver.

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very simple questions and I'm not sure I ever got a direct answer -

 

How does Eqwene know who Moridin is?

We don't know. Plenty of possibilities though. Could be from Verin's notes, from any of the Black Sisters she caught or even from her Dreams.

 

Why doesn't Mat recognize Egeanin?

There is no good answer for this one. I can see no other explanation except a mistake on BS's part.

 

 

Did the 100 members of the band volunteer to live in HInderstrap?

Yes.

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