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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
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jedman67

Jedi = Aes Sedai?

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I dunno... That's a bit of a stretch. No Aes Sedai ever wielded a blade made of focused light or any other type of blade, that we have seen. Nor have we seen an Aes Sedai power their athletic abilities to be able to jump buildings or levitate or go really fast. Also, Jedi manipulate the life force of the universe, which on the face of it sounds similar to the True Source, but in practice is a lot more organic and just follows the whims or thoughts of the Jedi and a lot less weaving five powers into pre-defined patterns.

 

If you were to try and tie the two magic systems together, then you might as well say that any wizard or magic user in any fantasy world is a Jedi or Aes Sedai.

Edited by Whizbang

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The channeling system of Wheel of Time and using the Force in Star Wars is two magick systems which both fit into the Energy model, however since this is the most common model of magick when it comes to fictional magic systems that is not something that really make the systems that similar. One of the biggest differences is that the main thing that Jedis do is to use the Force to better their own physical abilities, while in Wheel of Time a channeler can not use their powers on themselves. Yes they are both energy systems I I think that if an Aes Sedai ended up in the Star Wars universe she would immediately be sensed by an Jedi as a Force sensitive and vice versa if a female Jedi ended up in Wheel of Time she would be senses by Aes Sedai as a woman who could channel. I however do not think the systems are close enough to one another to assume one was inspired by the other.

 

Also as we weaving, that is not a part of Star Wars but when generally comparing Wheel of Time to other magick systems, the concept that the magic user weaves spells is not unique to Wheel of Time, allot of fictional magick systems and even paths of real life occultism have this concept. I think that if one is going to find magick systems similar to channeling WoT then one have to look at the unique elements and not the ones that it shares with allot of other systems since the magick in Wheel of Time is really very classic. That is why it is so good, it is the little black dress of magick systems, a classical energy model system with allot of common concepts in it, and then with enough detail and uniqueness added in to make it really interesting.

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True, the "magic" of the Force vs. True Source is quite a bit different; thats not what i was thinking at all. Jedi, like AS are respected world-wide as mediators, peace makers and advisors; but few (aside for nobles and leaders) truly welcome them.

AS, like Jedi, are suspected by the common people to manipulate leaders and thrones, to be wise and resourceful; and despite their respective combat abilities (a Jedi weilds a lightsaber, the AS weild the lightnings. Not so different) to 'do no harm' (think the Jedi Code vs the 3 Oaths - not the same, but not so different) or to not use the power as a weapon, except in the last resort of a danger to someones life.

Jedi and AS often act as generals or leaders in times of war against the shadow, and both are 'ascetic' orders.

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True, the "magic" of the Force vs. True Source is quite a bit different;

thats not what i was thinking at all. Jedi, like AS are respected

world-wide as mediators, peace makers and advisors; but few (aside for

nobles and leaders) truly welcome them.

 

Actually it is usually the nobles and leaders who do not welcome Jedi, most common folks celebrate them as defenders of peace and justice, however the archetype of a order of magick users who are advisers are not that uncommon either, sure there are similarities, both organizations are lead by a council, both live in a tower where they have their political power base and train their apprentices and both have a sort of stuck up view of magick users not initiated into their order, but this is still rather general descriptions which would be the same for allot of franchises. The Adeptus Astra Telepathica in Warhammer 40 000, the Bene Gesserit in Dune, the Psi Corps in Babylon 5, The Children of Amarid in Lon Tobyn Chronicles, both the Confessors and the Sisters of the Light in Sword of Truth, the list go on and on. The role of a magick user as an advisor is a very common concept in fiction probably owing to the fact that through history when magick was commonly believed in, it was very common for rulers to have people believed to posses magickal powers as their side as advisors, take Dr John Dee Edward Kelley who served Queen Elisabeth 1 for example. Also look at where the word magic comes from, it comes from magi, or wise men, originally a term fro Persian Astrologers before the word was accepted into Latin, the idea of a magick user as wise have sort of stayed with us through reality and fiction so two pieces of fiction having groups of mages working as advisors is not a startling similarity.

 

AS, like Jedi, are suspected by the common people to manipulate leaders

and thrones, to be wise and resourceful; and despite their respective

combat abilities (a Jedi weilds a lightsaber, the AS weild the

lightnings. Not so different) to 'do no harm' (think the Jedi Code vs

the 3 Oaths - not the same, but not so different) or to not use the

power as a weapon, except in the last resort of a danger to someones

life.

 

Jedi do allot of harm when they feel the need to. Look at the Phantom Menace, the Jedies do some damage. Now most orders of mages in all types of fiction will usually have some sort of laws, guidelines and oaths to live by, again sure there is a similarity, but it is a similarity shared with 70 percent or so of everything else out there as well. Now as for lightsabers being not that similar to lightening, I do not see that one. Lightening is well lightening and a lightsaber is a sword made of light that is like saying that a tank and a teaspoon are the same for both are made of metal. If you had made the comparison to Rand's fire sword I would be with you, but lightening no, that is more similar to the Emperor's Force lightening.

 

Jedi and AS often act as generals or leaders in times of war against the shadow, and both are 'ascetic' orders.

 

Ok I will grant you that on this point the two organizations are similar to one another.

 

Could a power-forged blade be compared with a lightsaber?

 

Well they are both magickal weapons but there the similarities end. A power wrought blade is just a blade that will not dull and is of better quality then a normal weapon, a lightsaber might be that in the hands of a normal person, but in the hands of a Force Adept they become a part of the user and is used as an important tool in actually wielding their magick.

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Could a power-forged blade be compared with a lightsaber?

 

Well they are both magickal weapons but there the similarities end. A power wrought blade is just a blade that will not dull and is of better quality then a normal weapon, a lightsaber might be that in the hands of a normal person, but in the hands of a Force Adept they become a part of the user and is used as an important tool in actually wielding their magick.

 

 

not so different. One who weilds such a sword weilds it as an extension of himself

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not so different. One who weilds such a sword weilds it as an extension of himself

 

That is not unique to power wrought swords, any good swordsman would see his sword as an extension of himself so that would make any sword something to compare to a lightsaber.

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Both the force and the true source require concentration to use; however, am I incorrect in thinking that the force only requires concentration, and that there is no actual power?

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I don't think they are that similar when you compare their beliefs and organizational structure. The Third Age Aes Sedai are more focused on accumulating influence and political clout, in general, while the Jedi are more like warrior-monks. The Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends lead normal lives including relationships and were motivated to be of service to society through the fruits of their labors, whereas the Jedi lead a life of ascetic discipline focusing on more police-type activity.

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I don't think they are that similar when you compare their beliefs and organizational structure. The Third Age Aes Sedai are more focused on accumulating influence and political clout, in general, while the Jedi are more like warrior-monks. The Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends lead normal lives including relationships and were motivated to be of service to society through the fruits of their labors, whereas the Jedi lead a life of ascetic discipline focusing on more police-type activity.

This is a bit confusing to understand, you say that the Aes Sedai are more figures of society, while the Jedi are warrior-monks that focus on police-type activity.

I don't get it  :sad:

 

The Aes Sedai are alike with the Jedi as being high-status. However, it seems to me like more people respect Aes Sedai than they do Jedi; or it may just be fear. While the Jedi focus on discipline, I can't really see them as being peaceful in nature; they're always killing people. 

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I don't think they are that similar when you compare their beliefs and organizational structure. The Third Age Aes Sedai are more focused on accumulating influence and political clout, in general, while the Jedi are more like warrior-monks. The Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends lead normal lives including relationships and were motivated to be of service to society through the fruits of their labors, whereas the Jedi lead a life of ascetic discipline focusing on more police-type activity.

This is a bit confusing to understand, you say that the Aes Sedai are more figures of society, while the Jedi are warrior-monks that focus on police-type activity.

I don't get it  :sad:

 

The Aes Sedai are alike with the Jedi as being high-status. However, it seems to me like more people respect Aes Sedai than they do Jedi; or it may just be fear. While the Jedi focus on discipline, I can't really see them as being peaceful in nature; they're always killing people. 

 

Sorry if it's confusing; just to clarify:

 

The Jedi eschew politics and they are more of a UN-type peace-keeping force. They are always killing criminals and etc, but this is more of a police-type activity than what Aes Sedai, who are bound from using the power against many mundane threats, would do. They Jedi are inspired by samurai or Tibetan monks, so many of their beliefs are grounded in this warrior ethos. They are bound to uphold the laws of the Republic or the major governmental body. They use violence to do so, but do not engage in violence without a provocation or reason.

 

The Aes Sedai are more akin to politicians or nobles than warriors of any type. Many Aes Sedai concentrate on private activities of their own choosing or are attached to noble or high ranking courts. The White Tower holds it's own lands and while they involve themselves in the affairs of other nations, the Third Age Aes Sedai were not empowered by these nations to do whatever they wanted to pursue their agenda, and in general, they were mainly called to deal with major male channelers, to counter darkfriends or assist with Shadowspawn. 

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Both the force and the true source require concentration to use;

however, am I incorrect in thinking that the force only requires

concentration, and that there is no actual power?

 

There is an actual energy there in Star Wars, it is the universal life force, Chi whatever you want to call it, but it is really there and Force sensitives can use it to affect the world and themselves. I do not ever think there have been a theory among Star Wars fans that the Force do not exist and that the Jedi and other Force sensitives only use their mind, the Force is pretty well established as being an energy, though energy might be the wrong term as it is more like well yes a force that bind all life together, and it is pretty well established that in the Star Wars world it do exist.

 

Now there will always be similarities between mage orders in fantasy and science fiction. I bet that if you take any random ten settings that have organized groups of mages most of them will have similar elements to them as the Aes Sedai. I agree with RugbyPlayingAshaman that the focus of the Jedi and the Aes Sedai is very different, that being said I do think that if the two settings had an exchange program Jedis would nod in recognition at allot of what Aes Sedai do and vice versa and Aes Sedai might feel right at home in the Jedi temple.

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Now I'm imagining Yoda as an Aes Sedai;

 

Well hope he do not decide to take a spaceship and go visit the WoT world before the end of book nine then for he is the male of his species. :P

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Yoda would be like Lan combined with Hopper with a dash of Moiraine and Asmodean. A super bad-ass zen warrior mage. In fact, who needs LTT/Rand? Just send Yoda into SG. Unless Zen Rand is supposed to BE Yoda?

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