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Different ways to use Gateways (full spoilers)

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Ok, so we've seen Deathgates, horizontal gateways for spying, lava gateways... What else is there? Also, RJ thought that their were limits to the effectiveness of gateways, can we think what these are?

 

 

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Well, you can also use Gateways to direct/re-direct other weaves (such as Androl with the balefire) and also to shoot through from a great distance (such as the use of the Dragons in the cave). I'd imagine the last could be used for arrows and slings and such as well. 

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Horizontal Gateways are world breaking. Literally, if you make a poor man's mass driver :) Fighting-wise: drop enemies onto other enemies. Boulders. Mountain peaks. If you're Demandred, drop the White Tower onto Carhien palace then drop both onto Whatever Knob.

 

There's a thread in general with tons of options on how to cheat physics with the old-fashioned vertical gates, as well as ways to use them in battle for fun and profit.

 

For RJ's limits of effectiveness: I'd assume there's other methods to block them opening besides the odd Ter'angreal (part of the reason it's ridiculous to have significant non-Shadowspawn force fighting for the shadow under the command of a "brilliant" general). Androl's open way faster than others, so the redirect attack tricks he can do are tough to replicate for others (as well as he's pretty weak and lacks other options). For channelers fighting, Gateways are probably too slow to open as well as it being a power intensive and complicated weave to make under fire.

Edited by Cybertrolloc

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What about using horizontal Gateways to cut your enemies to pieces?  Or go all Alien, and create a Gateway above enemy soldiers into hard vacuum?  Also, are there any limits on the distance that can be covered by Gateways?  If not, they could use them to explore the Galaxy.

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What about using horizontal Gateways to cut your enemies to pieces?  Or go all Alien, and create a Gateway above enemy soldiers into hard vacuum?  Also, are there any limits on the distance that can be covered by Gateways?  If not, they could use them to explore the Galaxy.

RJ said that not even the strongest circle of 72 could hop from one Galaxy to the next.

 

One obvious thing was to use Gateways to attack Shadowspawn from far away. Have weaker Aes Sedai, in circles with weak Novices, open large Gateways in front of Trolloc lines. Then have the stronger Aes Sedai send destructive weaves through them. Egwene even does this once, then the Tower strangely forgets this massive strategic advantage.

 

One thing someone with immense skill could do is to open a new Gateway from exactly the location into which an enemy Gateway has opened. This will shift the first Gateway (as we saw in CoT), and hopefully cause some chaos and confusion.

 

The cleveres use for Gateways would be to make them horizontal, tie them off, then hide them, all in a location where an army is expected to cross. Have them lead to a 50 foot drop above and slightly behind the first line of Gateways. Spread them out in a line, and the first ranks of a marching army will plummet to their deaths, simultaneously crushing those a little behind. Set wards around the knots of the Gateways, and any channelers attempting to cut the weaves will be killed/incapacitated. The rest will be forced to waste energy opening Gateways, while you have a line beyond which the enemy soldiers cannot mundanely cross. 

 

If you're clever, you'll land your army behind this marching force, and they'll be caught between your force and a steep drop. Its a great guerrilla tactic.

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OP made obstacles is one of the reasons Asmo was the most practical OP user, you can slice and dice or hinder with other things.

 

I forgot to mention how different the physics of WoT are from ours. I.e. opening a Gateway to even something 1000 feet higher is a WMD in our world, so doing things like clearing smoke from a room with a gateway is omg wtf for me.

 

Speaking of WMD, it'd take about a month (~3 million seconds) to accelerate something to 10% lightspeed with gravity (linear), so a real scary mass driver is out and we'll need to figure some other way to bust the planet with the OP. (Going by the can't tie off gateways and extremely tiring to hold them open rule change.)

Edited by Cybertrolloc

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Cybertrolloc, if you want to bust the planet with the OP, just open a Gateway to the core of the Sun.  THAT should do the trick.

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I don't understand why androl didn't open a gateway in Taim's head to kill him when they were fighting, I was totally expecting it.

 

Instead he opened one that was smack in front of the balefire and teleported it, but why not lop Taim's head off at the neck with one? Even opening one an inch wide inside his brain or chest would mess him up pretty good.

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I don't understand why androl didn't open a gateway in Taim's head to kill him when they were fighting, I was totally expecting it.

 

Instead he opened one that was smack in front of the balefire and teleported it, but why not lop Taim's head off at the neck with one? Even opening one an inch wide inside his brain or chest would mess him up pretty good.

 

That reminds me. What would happen if Androl was to direct Taims balefire back so that it hit Taim? 

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That would have been amazing. Taim would just be standing there with a confused expression I imagine.

 

Afraid Androl's gateway ninjitsu opens up a juicy can of worms.

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I don't understand why androl didn't open a gateway in Taim's head to kill him when they were fighting, I was totally expecting it.

 

Instead he opened one that was smack in front of the balefire and teleported it, but why not lop Taim's head off at the neck with one? Even opening one an inch wide inside his brain or chest would mess him up pretty good.

 

That reminds me. What would happen if Androl was to direct Taims balefire back so that it hit Taim? 

 

I've always considered this as the exception to the balefire "burning your thread back in time" feature.  It just wouldn't be possible to balefire yourself back in time.  I think that the person's thread would just end right then and there.

 

Or, it could rip a hole in the time-space continuum.

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A primitive sort of flight is possible. I can't describe it in words, so that's what ms paint is for:

so5r36.jpg

 

So.... basically Portal.

Edited by Master Ablar

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I think the underlying problem with Gateways is that the amount of time and effort expended to create one was not limited enough and a character like Androl suddenly became real easy to exploit. Gateways are the single biggest advantage, everything for transportation and communication.

 

You can transport a prisoner to a jail cell without having to go with them by using a moving horizontal gateway (take a second to think about how that would work).

 

Also, something I thought was interesting, of the Great Captains, Bashere used them the worst, though he had had the most exposure to them before hand.

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They could also be used to block shadow spawn in narrow passages.

 

I love this idea....should have tied one off over the door to the waygate in Camelyn.  Would have saved a headache there.  

 

On a side note, I think there was something about the length of time that a gateway can be tied off....didn't Rand's nearly close on him when he went after Aviendha?

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I think the underlying problem with Gateways is that the amount of time and effort expended to create one was not limited enough and a character like Androl suddenly became real easy to exploit. Gateways are the single biggest advantage, everything for transportation and communication.

1) Androl's gateway is a Talent. He weaves differently than other channelers. He even doesn't have to study the terrain before making a gateway. This might be too much, but many of the lost Talents manifest themselves by "the channeler just know it", like Aviendha's detecting the fuctions of ter'angreal, Elayne's making of ter'angreal, Nynaeve's earlier five-power Healing (generic Aes Sedai's Healing only use Spirit, Air, Water), etc.

 

2) During previous books, Gateways did not play more creative parts in battle, telecommunication etc because of, well, Aes Sedai's conservativeness. Egwene's use of cuendillar to seal Tar Valon's harbor is one such creativity, which is lacking in the life of Aes Sedai as a whole. The Aes Sedai even didn't know what to do with the hundreds of novice, until Sharina came with her method of management (grouping novices into families, gong, etc). That's just reflecting the conservativeness of Aes Sedai, imho.

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They could also be used to block shadow spawn in narrow passages.

I love this idea....should have tied one off over the door to the waygate in Camelyn.  Would have saved a headache there.

 

On a side note, I think there was something about the length of time that a gateway can be tied off....didn't Rand's nearly close on him when he went after Aviendha?

 

It was Avi's gate that they both travelled through, Rand tried to prevent Avi's gate from closing (a Talent). I'm not sure what the rules are on tying a weave off, I always assumed that it wasn't possible for gateways, but I don't think that's backed up in the text (other than I can't remember them tying a weave off).

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Tying off gateways happens in KoD and prior, but was called back by RJ(?) and BS. Not sure where wedging them open weaves stand.

Indeed. The tying off thing was seemingly forgotten/stopped well before BS came on board.

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I must be missing something somewhere.  Maybe i left it in a gateway...

 

1.  Isnt one of the requirements that the maker of the gateway needs to know the terrain of the current place, as well as the new location?

 

Thats why they "skim" to places they never been, then open a gateway after a few hours of recon.  This was mentioned in a few books that i know...most recently by Verin when she gives mat his letter.   Of course maybe you will tell me she is BA so she was lying, but I am sure Eg and the Salidar people said that fact...as well as someone saying the Ashaman needed to learn the place before making a gateway...I think that was in WH with Perrin.

 

2.  Saying that - how do they make gateways 10000 feet in the air?   In the middle of battlefields?   You cant tell me Yukiri just happened to know that battlefield, so shes also familiar with the terrain 10000 feet in the air?

 

3.  Androl - ok so he has this magical Talent to make gateways.  I can cope with that.  Otherwise about opening a gateway in the middle of someones body is impossible since you need to know the "terrain."  Semi or Grend opened a gateway and sliced one of their pets in half...or maybe it was Samm or Moridin.  but that was just because the Gateway was opening "there" not on the person.  

 

Does anyone have issues with my logic, or some obscure quote that proves me ignorant?

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Tying off gateways happens in KoD and prior, but was called back by RJ(?) and BS. Not sure where wedging them open weaves stand.

Indeed. The tying off thing was seemingly forgotten/stopped well before BS came on board.

As late as KoD, Rand talks of tying off his Deathgates so they would dissipate in a few minutes. Perrin also talks of wishing he could ask Grady to tie off a Gateway, but refraining as he didn't want the Shaido to be able to reach the TR.

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One only needs to know one end of the gateway. Yukuri knew the area inside tent. Gateways can be opened short distances without knowing the area. An area where you've opened a gateway is known to you. I believe it was Rand who opened a short gateway, then opened a longer one, without staying in the place.

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