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Barid Bel Medar

Graendal's Arc

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For at least part of the fight, Greffalump was using power from her 'circle' instead of using her own reserves

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

To whit, wasn't Graendal drawing on a circle of compelled channelers? So who is to say how much strength she had.

 

Indeed, plus Graendal has her own plain gold ring angreal. Seems fairly even - she's facing three Forsaken-level channelers (Talaan, Alivia and Cadsuane + angreal) and two just under Forsaken-level (Amys is a match for Romanda/Lelaine, which isn't too far off Aviendha).

 

 

On a side note, when Perrin chased Graendal out of TAR did anyone notice that it seemed to read like the forkroot came out with Graendal as she was still spitting it out in the real world? I thought that things created in TAR could not be taken into the real world, otherwise the Forsaken would just pop in and have an unlimited supply of sa'angreal.

 

It probably still existed since it was inside her, but disappeared as soon as she spit it out or something.  Or maybe she was just spitting the taste out of her mouth.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.
To whit, wasn't Graendal drawing on a circle of compelled channelers? So who is to say how much strength she had.
 

Indeed, plus Graendal has her own plain gold ring angreal. Seems fairly even - she's facing three Forsaken-level channelers (Talaan, Alivia and Cadsuane + angreal) and two just under Forsaken-level (Amys is a match for Romanda/Lelaine, which isn't too far off Aviendha).

 

 

On a side note, when Perrin chased Graendal out of TAR did anyone notice that it seemed to read like the forkroot came out with Graendal as she was still spitting it out in the real world? I thought that things created in TAR could not be taken into the real world, otherwise the Forsaken would just pop in and have an unlimited supply of sa'angreal.

 

It probably still existed since it was inside her, but disappeared as soon as she spit it out or something.  Or maybe she was just spitting the taste out of her mouth.

 

 

I'd go with the latter - the forkroot didn't come out with her, but the memory did. I'd call it reflex.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.
To whit, wasn't Graendal drawing on a circle of compelled channelers? So who is to say how much strength she had.
 

Indeed, plus Graendal has her own plain gold ring angreal. Seems fairly even - she's facing three Forsaken-level channelers (Talaan, Alivia and Cadsuane + angreal) and two just under Forsaken-level (Amys is a match for Romanda/Lelaine, which isn't too far off Aviendha).

 

 

On a side note, when Perrin chased Graendal out of TAR did anyone notice that it seemed to read like the forkroot came out with Graendal as she was still spitting it out in the real world? I thought that things created in TAR could not be taken into the real world, otherwise the Forsaken would just pop in and have an unlimited supply of sa'angreal.

 

It probably still existed since it was inside her, but disappeared as soon as she spit it out or something.  Or maybe she was just spitting the taste out of her mouth.

 

 

I'd go with the latter - the forkroot didn't come out with her, but the memory did. I'd call it reflex.

It is explained that all the worlds were blending together during the final battle. Perhaps during this time of overlap, and especially so close to TG, things could be brought from TAR to Randland. Sorry if I am getting some of the abbreviations and terms wrong, I am new to this website.

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Guest Dunedain Fal

I thought Graendel's mind was destroyed by her Compulsion weave that bounced back against her.  Remove the Compulsion and she would suffer the same fate that the poor boy did in TGS after Nyneave removed the Compulsion.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

 

So do we conclude then that Verin is a relatively skilled battle channeller (for a brown), having driven off Graendal + Angreal (though Kumira died)

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it will be interesting to see if Moghedian even gets revealed as a forsaken, no seanchan will recognise her and unless they tour the white tower like egwene said they could i dont think she will get revealed. Probably few Aes Sedai outside elayne and Nyneave will recognise her at all.

 

I believe Min could figure it out through her viewings. They would probably show the darkness around Moghedien somehow.

 

Leanne can also recogize her.  Her and Suian both tried on the bracelet from the a'dam when they were stilled to see if they could make it work.  I don't know that Nyneave or Elayne would ever have the chance to see her again as they would both spend very little time in the WT in the future.  Nyneanve and Lan have a kingdom to rebuild and Elayne has a lot on her plate with Caemlyn falling too.  The best bet would be MIn seeing her if she stays around the Seanchan as their "Doomseer". 

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I loved that Graendal could take on so many channelers at once in a duel...that is the kind of skill that I always expected from the Forsaken...she and Moridin were the only two that even sort of lived up to the Forsaken hype (Demandred KIND of did). But, what always bothered me is that she is this insanely brilliant woman who Rand admitted could outthink him any day of the week and she decided to take control of Arad Doman?????? Why?????? 

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I loved that Graendal could take on so many channelers at once in a duel...that is the kind of skill that I always expected from the Forsaken...she and Moridin were the only two that even sort of lived up to the Forsaken hype (Demandred KIND of did). But, what always bothered me is that she is this insanely brilliant woman who Rand admitted could outthink him any day of the week and she decided to take control of Arad Doman?????? Why?????? 

Arad Doman was a nice, pleasant "western" country with strong ties to its neighbors (some of those ties included border disputes that could easily be manipulated into full scale wars).

You're also forgetting that Granny was known for her..."appetites" - Arad Doman (Persia) was famously known for women who mastered (on a cultural level) the art of seduction.

Toss some civil war into the mix, and you can throw "neighboring" Tarabon and Amadecia into chaos as well, keeping the standing armies of three nations focused on anything but what the Light Side wants. I wouldnt call it a 'genius' move, but certainly a fruitful way to pass the time.

Edited by jedman67

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I don't understand how Graendal was beating/holding her own against Aviendha, Cadsuane and the rest of their circle.  Did she have an angreal or something to help her?  IIRC, Graendal is a little stronger than Nynaeve, and yet Nynaeve couldn't fight two standard strength Black Sisters who were linked in ACoS on her own.

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Grandael could be the most skilled female Forsaken in One Power usage. She certainly had no fear of confronting Lanfear (book 5), even though Lanfear is stronger. The only one Grandael feared confronting was LTT.

 

Grandael was also in a circle with several Aes Sedai slaves, thus she was able to combat Avienhda's circle, Amys circle, Cadusane and Aliva ...however she did this simultaneously!

 

Moghdien is a pretty pathetic villian, but she is the weakest of the pack, beside Asmodean. 

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Didn't like the whole Graendal corrupting the Great Captains thing. Thought it was a bit too obvious a way to force the Light into giving Mat the command.

 

As for her generally...I think what people have said about her being one of the better realised Forsaken is due to the amount of page time she got towards the end. Be'lal, Aginor and Balthamel were like end of level bosses in a computer game; they turned up for a chapter at the end and were taken out. Rahvin went just as he was getting interesting (I liked that he was kind of a male equivalent to Graendal), Rand's battle with Sammael was a bit disappointing, Semirhage got talked about more than she was seen, Mesaana was in disguise for the whole series, and Demandred only came into his own in the very last book. Lanfear, Moghedien and Asmodean all got some good screen time, and I liked Ishamael when he was bat shit crazy, thinking he was the DO. Personally, Moghedien is my favourite Forsaken: she works in secret, she's a TAR master and others underestimate her at their peril. Not every villain has to be in-your-face nasty, after all. My personal WOT wish was always that Jordan had kept Be'lal alive longer. He had the potential to be the most interesting Forsaken, for me.

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On a side note I think Moghedien has to be the most pathetic villain I've ever read in literature. Such an abject abomination.

 

hehe I felt the opposite actually.  She was weak, but that was the point.  She was somebody who only fought when it earned her something.  

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