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Barid Bel Medar

Graendal's Arc

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One of my favorite forsaken, easily. Mostly because of the unexpected growth at the end. Most of them seemed to go nowhere or to diminish as the story progressed, she grew.

pretty much this it seems like Demandred and Graendel were the only forsaken to shine in later books. They both were the powerhouses of the forsaken and she became what lan fear should have been. It seemed though like RJ only gave characters 1 good run. All the forsaken he brought back barely achieved anything and played little roles in the future. Which is why Greandal had such a big impact later in the books cause she didnt have a major impact early on in the series like the other forsaken.

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One of my favorite forsaken, easily. Mostly because of the unexpected growth at the end. Most of them seemed to go nowhere or to diminish as the story progressed, she grew.

pretty much this it seems like Demandred and Graendel were the only forsaken to shine in later books. They both were the powerhouses of the forsaken and she became what lan fear should have been. It seemed though like RJ only gave characters 1 good run. All the forsaken he brought back barely achieved anything and played little roles in the future. Which is why Greandal had such a big impact later in the books cause she didnt have a major impact early on in the series like the other forsaken.

 

I agree. I actually thought she was one of the blander forsaken at the beginning but she really grew into a good enemy. I even like the way that she began to enjoy being so ugly because her playthings still loved her despite it. Good stuff. 

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Graendal turned out to be one of the more exciting and more competent Forsaken. Sure, she still messes things up, but she got a lot of stuff done, too. Her POVs were always great (actually, i think I like pretty much all Forsaken POVs, but hers were fun), and I love how adaptable she is. She is my second-favorite Forsaken and ties with Mat as my second favorite in the series, I think. I enjoyed her arc, and even though I expected just a little more out of her at the LB, at least she did more than most of the others. Even though there were some things I didn't like about the way she was finally defeated, being under Compulsion was a good fit for her. I wish the Forsaken had been a little better, because so many of them were such great characters. But anyway, Graendal was awesome.

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She's always been my favorite Forsaken (I've always been partial to the females, Mesaana excluded). Though she was present for the entirety of the series essentially, she really came to shine later on. Her plans generally fell into place, and when they didn't she adapted. After all, she is the only Forsaken who survived Rand coming directly for her. I think she was the most power hungry of the Forsaken - Lanfear wanted power for power's sake, while Graendal wanted power for the control it brought, so her pursuit had a greater goal. I think her downfall was her obsession with control; Demandred was such a great general because he took risks, while Graendal's risks were always so over-thought as to have the element of risk entirely removed. Her death and subsequent resurrection obviously unhinged her, though she was still competent. Given the circumstances, I think anyone would be tense - it's the end of the world, you're vying for your cosmic lord's favor when you're at the bottom of the totem pole.

 

Were we to psychoanalyze Graendal, I'd say that she was a deeply insecure individual. Her obsession with control and personality 180 in the AoL suggest a person who had to live at extremes in order to find validation in their existence. She went from believing and essentially telling everyone that she was superior to forcing them (and the best of the best, mind you) to acknowledge her supremacy.

 

I honestly believe she was the most dangerous of the Forsaken, though perhaps not the most suitable for leadership.

Edited by Heikoy

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I also loved the unexpected ending with accepting her ugliness and surprisingly turning to the Light under compulsion, seems like a fitting ending as both are really her opposites.

 

Although we will never be able to RAFO, I want to speculate in the future of Graendal.

 

* Being a Forsaken, she should by logic become executed by the White Tower, as were the BA sisters by Egwene.

* At the same time, the White Tower could use her present state under compulsion to make her willingly share all knowledge of the Age of Legends to them - a female Asmodean so to speak.

* She could stroll about unrecognized as an ugly person becoming low servant at some place. I believe this would actually be most likely.

* Or will she somehow break out of the compulsion and become a new beginning as dark force in the WoT? Similar thought för Moghedien. Although they can't easily break the DO free again, the ending with choices and resist from humanity shows that dark forces could again corrupt them despite all that Rand achieved. In that regard, I find it fitting to show that they both survived as it shows that Rands own vision of a world without the DO was not realized and implies that another breaking will come and the Dragon will need to become Reborn anew. And then there are still Alviarin and some other BA/DF that survived but deep down are still evil/selfish to the core.

 

Another thought is that she may well admit that she killed Asmodean during a trial in the White Tower and then all Aes Sedai who could not read the Forsaken POV chapters will also get to know this at last ;)

 

In any case, Cadsuane and her sisters are having some tough decisions ahead of them if they recognize Graendal.

Edited by Tharand

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If Cadsuane really does become Amyrlin, I'm pretty sure that Graendal is toast. Cadsuane would appreciate the dangers of her living and would move to eliminate her ASAP.

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If Cadsuane really does become Amyrlin, I'm pretty sure that Graendal is toast. Cadsuane would appreciate the dangers of her living and would move to eliminate her ASAP.

I dont think it will have anything to do with cadsuane. Avi is a wise one and im sure amys, sorillea etc will be the ones to insist on deciding her fate they dont like having much to do with the Aes Sedai and now that Egwene is gone i dont see their pact continuing with so few Aes Sedai left.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

Edited by NitroS

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

i know that but all the forsaken pov we had in WH they all backed away and couldnt penetrate any of the circles/solo channelers with angreal. Lanfear couldnt defeat alivia 1v1 when she just had nyneaves artifacts. Demandred lost to i think it was narishmas circle? well not lost but he ran away because he was too powerful. Nyneave moghedian when nyneave had crap all skill.

Edited by NitroS

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If Cadsuane really does become Amyrlin, I'm pretty sure that Graendal is toast. Cadsuane would appreciate the dangers of her living and would move to eliminate her ASAP.

I dont think it will have anything to do with cadsuane. Avi is a wise one and im sure amys, sorillea etc will be the ones to insist on deciding her fate they dont like having much to do with the Aes Sedai and now that Egwene is gone i dont see their pact continuing with so few Aes Sedai left.

 

Cadsuane is not Egwene and isn't subtle with her political movements. If she even catches a slightest wind of Graendal's situation, she'll move at her FAST. Don't underestimate her.

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I think Graendal is toast.  First off, Cadsuane will strike her down the moment she discovers her, regardless of the Wise Ones.  Secondly, Cadsuane has earned the respect of the leaders among the Wise Ones too.  Finally, the Wise Ones got to see the Semirhage debacle first hand too.  I don't think she'll live long no matter who remains in charge of her captivity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Compulsion is dangerous to count on it to hold someone.  Perrin broke it from Lanfear.  Morgase got away from it with Rahvin too.  Graendal is a strong-willed person and I think she will eventually start to question her "orders" from her captors and will eventually break the hold over her.  Then it comes down to how good of an actor she can be until she slips away.  Everyone is better off to kill her now.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

To whit, wasn't Graendal drawing on a circle of compelled channelers? So who is to say how much strength she had.

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I have to say most of the villains in the Wheel of Time are rather boring. Comparrng Moridin to characters like Darken Rahl and Vladimar Harkonnen and there's really no comparison. Most of the villains sucked in the series. But that's probably because Jordan keeps it to PG-13.

 

In regards to Graendal. I'm really not sure if she was ever a nymphomaniac but if she was I'm glad she was reborn as that made her character more interesting. Probably the most interesting Forsaken.

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Actually, some of the Forsaken were downright nasty, Rahvin as a sex-crazed maniac, Mesaana who designed a brain-washing system of education in the previous Age, Semirhage the sadist, etc. It just that RJ described their atrocities subtly, without graphic sex/violence/whatever. This is one reason that attract me to WoT. I just can't stomach too much blood and violence.

 

The Forsaken, however, were spending too much time for internal squabbling, and some just stupid (or arrogant), waiting for Rand only to be killed by him or his allies. Graendal was cautious, thus managed to survive until the Last Battle.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

To whit, wasn't Graendal drawing on a circle of compelled channelers? So who is to say how much strength she had.

 

Indeed, plus Graendal has her own plain gold ring angreal. Seems fairly even - she's facing three Forsaken-level channelers (Talaan, Alivia and Cadsuane + angreal) and two just under Forsaken-level (Amys is a match for Romanda/Lelaine, which isn't too far off Aviendha).

 

 

On a side note, when Perrin chased Graendal out of TAR did anyone notice that it seemed to read like the forkroot came out with Graendal as she was still spitting it out in the real world? I thought that things created in TAR could not be taken into the real world, otherwise the Forsaken would just pop in and have an unlimited supply of sa'angreal.

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

To whit, wasn't Graendal drawing on a circle of compelled channelers? So who is to say how much strength she had.

 

Indeed, plus Graendal has her own plain gold ring angreal. Seems fairly even - she's facing three Forsaken-level channelers (Talaan, Alivia and Cadsuane + angreal) and two just under Forsaken-level (Amys is a match for Romanda/Lelaine, which isn't too far off Aviendha).

 

 

On a side note, when Perrin chased Graendal out of TAR did anyone notice that it seemed to read like the forkroot came out with Graendal as she was still spitting it out in the real world? I thought that things created in TAR could not be taken into the real world, otherwise the Forsaken would just pop in and have an unlimited supply of sa'angreal.

Weren't all the forsaken using the true power at the end, some in smaller amounts than others, but use of the true power would give Greandal and advantage as the weaves would be invisable to those she was fighting. Only a thought not sure if completely correct.

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Graendal must be killed as soon as possible.To keep her alive o get knowledge from her is a bad idea.If she breaks out she can cause havoc. But Moggy on the other hand can be kept alive,she is just incompetent on so many levels. 

Edited by XXX47

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Just read the Greandal battle scene again and one thing that griped me was that from Avi pov she said Cadsuane, Alivia, amys and tavine(?) were all vsing Graendal and she was winning, which sounds stupid since the power of Cadsuane and her net, alivia and then Avi joins in witht he other 2 she should have lost easily considering the battles of say alivia vs lan fear in WH.

It's not only about raw strength.

To whit, wasn't Graendal drawing on a circle of compelled channelers? So who is to say how much strength she had.

 

Indeed, plus Graendal has her own plain gold ring angreal. Seems fairly even - she's facing three Forsaken-level channelers (Talaan, Alivia and Cadsuane + angreal) and two just under Forsaken-level (Amys is a match for Romanda/Lelaine, which isn't too far off Aviendha).

 

 

On a side note, when Perrin chased Graendal out of TAR did anyone notice that it seemed to read like the forkroot came out with Graendal as she was still spitting it out in the real world? I thought that things created in TAR could not be taken into the real world, otherwise the Forsaken would just pop in and have an unlimited supply of sa'angreal.

Weren't all the forsaken using the true power at the end, some in smaller amounts than others, but use of the true power would give Greandal and advantage as the weaves would be invisable to those she was fighting. Only a thought not sure if completely correct.

they were using the true power to travel, but demandred described of not having enough access for destructive weaves so i assume it was for the same for graendel and Avi described some of the weaves she was using so i think the only true power she would have used was travelling.

 

 

Graendal

must be killed as soon as possible.To keep her alive o get knowledge

from her is a bad idea.If she breaks out she can cause havoc. But Moggy

on the other hand can be kept alive,she is just incompetent on so many

levels. 

 it will be interesting to see if Moghedian even gets revealed as a forsaken, no seanchan will recognise her and unless they tour the white tower like egwene said they could i dont think she will get revealed. Probably few Aes Sedai outside elayne and Nyneave will recognise her at all.

Edited by NitroS

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it will be interesting to see if Moghedian even gets revealed as a forsaken, no seanchan will recognise her and unless they tour the white tower like egwene said they could i dont think she will get revealed. Probably few Aes Sedai outside elayne and Nyneave will recognise her at all.

 

I believe Min could figure it out through her viewings. They would probably show the darkness around Moghedien somehow.

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