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The Travelling People (Full Spoilers)


Barid Bel Medar
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Before this becomes a never ending argument, let us agree you are both wrong

 

Sutt: when he says the song he means the combined power of Aiel, ogier, and nym making things grow

 

Randless: sutt is quoting from the authors

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well given that the Ogier's talent does not even come close to that of the Nym as per the first book gives us some clue,

Yes, that is exactly what I've said. It gives us a clue that while Nym enhance the "singing" it will still work without them, perhaps not as well, but it still works none the less(just as it does with the Ogier). Again the Nym were a man made construct, they were not a natural part of the world. A talent doesn not hinge on the existence of a construct.

 

also as no human in the book had the talent ever again suggest that you are again wrong

Argumentum E Silentio

 

Logical fallacies don't help your cause.

 

I have provided evidence to back my claims and shown with quotes how a number of your intital thoughts were off. All you've done is continue to throw out opinion with nothing to back it up. There is zero evidence to support your claim that the talent of "the voice" needs a man made construct for it to work. Further there never was a single mystical song, that is an indisputable fact.

 

@short

 

I get that and as I've said the Nym would certainly enhance the process if all three are used in unison. I stated that in my first post.

Edited by Suttree
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well given that the Ogier's talent does not even come close to that of the Nym as per the first book gives us some clue,

Yes, that is exactly what I've said. It gives us a clue that while Nym enhance the "singing" it will still work without them, perhaps not as well, but it still works none the less(just as it does with the Ogier). Again the Nym were a man made construct, they were not a natural part of the world. A talent doesn not hinge on the existence of a construct.

 

>also as no human in the book had the talent ever again suggest that you are again wrong

Argumentum E Silentio

 

Logical fallacies don't help your cause.

 

I have provided evidence to back my claims and shown with quotes how a number of your intital thoughts were off. All you've done is continue to throw out opinion with nothing to back it up. There is zero evidence to support your claim that the talent of "the voice" needs a man made construct for it to work. Further there never was a single mystical song, that is an indisputable fact.

 

@short

 

I get that and as I've said the Nym would certainly enhance the process if all three are used in unison. I stated that in my first post.

 

I cant prove a negative, thats kind of how that works 

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One of my disappointments in the final 3 books of the series was the extremely small role played in them by the Traveling people. I was hoping for more than the tiny little tidbits that we did get. 

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One of my disappointments in the final 3 books of the series was the extremely small role played in them by the Traveling people. I was hoping for more than the tiny little tidbits that we did get. 

I wonder why so many people find them interesting :-/

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To me, they were interesting because they were so very different than every other culture in the WOT, and they still managed to stick to their basic beliefs about the Way of the Leaf. That made them interesting to me. 

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Also, what about Min's viewing of Perrin and a song?  (I may be wrong

about this, but I thought there was one where she sawing singing and

flowers blooming.)  I always thought it had to do with The Song.  Do we

ever get any closure on this?

I don't think there was a song in the viewing, just Perrin surrounded by trees and flowers blooming.  Think this referred to his epiphany at his family's graves in the apple orchard where he got his will to fight.

 

There was a scene where Perrin made a bunch of trees and plants bloom in the wolf dream.  Could have been that.  Not every viewing is a major world changing event.

 

I dunno about the Tinkers though.  The whole point of that epiphany is that it's ok to fight against complete evil like the shadow.  Except there is no shadow any more, so it's basically a worthless revelation.

Edited by Aleator77
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Their coming to terms with the rest of the world felt a bit weak. It was just such an obvious revelation, and to have it be their final say.. I'm probably not giving the authors enough credit but there was too much of a build up and I was sorely disappointed.

EDIT: Perhaps the revelation wasn't as "obvious" as I'm making it out to be, but the way it was written sure made it feel that way.

Edited by Tiinker
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Aviendha touched or sometimes held for a moment, and every time she had an answer. Delivered hesitantly and with cautions that it was only a surmise, but always an answer. She thought a small hinged box, apparently ivory and covered with rippling red and green stripes, held music, hundreds of tunes, perhaps thousands. With a ter’angreal, that might be possible.

Knife of Dreams Chapter 15

 

Song is there

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ok, so  whenthe tinkers when they left the Aiel, they heard stories of a different time; a time when there was no war, a time when the Aiel would sing these amazing songs and plants would grow. The tinkers who left equated the song to the peace time. This thing they searched or was unattainable. Not because the song of growing was lost but their perversion of what the song was. They are chasing a dream of a time gone by, of a song that would bring about the AoL again and it is not going to happen. The Ogier sang the song of growing to the  tinkers and they said it was not the right one. Of course it was not, the song of growing or any song can fill what they are looking for.

 



 

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From the small point of view we had from Raen, I quite liked the little development he had as a character, accepting the fact that sometimes it is necessary to use force rather than just thinking that everyone is in the wrong even for just picking up a sword.

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Aviendha touched or sometimes held for a moment, and every time she had an answer. Delivered hesitantly and with cautions that it was only a surmise, but always an answer. She thought a small hinged box, apparently ivory and covered with rippling red and green stripes, held music, hundreds of tunes, perhaps thousands. With a ter’angreal, that might be possible.

Knife of Dreams Chapter 15

 

Song is there

 

You can't be serious.

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Aviendha touched or sometimes held for a moment, and every time she had an answer. Delivered hesitantly and with cautions that it was only a surmise, but always an answer. She thought a small hinged box, apparently ivory and covered with rippling red and green stripes, held music, hundreds of tunes, perhaps thousands. With a ter’angreal, that might be possible.

Knife of Dreams Chapter 15

Song is there

You can't be serious.

Imagine that, all they had to do was check the iPod play list. ;)

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I had always imagined that the traveling people would meet up with the Ogier and here them sing and start to sing along with them.  I had thought this would somehow be important to the last battle.

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I had always imagined that the traveling people would meet up with the Ogier and here them sing and start to sing along with them.  I had thought this would somehow be important to the last battle.

So did I. And I also expected tahat Aiel will be there too (SHADO?) and that Aviendha will find them a song in that ter’angreal  music box

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  • 1 month later...

 

I had always imagined that the traveling people would meet up with the Ogier and here them sing and start to sing along with them.  I had thought this would somehow be important to the last battle.

So did I. And I also expected tahat Aiel will be there too (SHADO?) and that Aviendha will find them a song in that ter’angreal  music box

I have to agree.  I actually had been looking forward to the answer to the "mysterious song" from the Tuath'an (sp?) from the very beginning of the series.  I am a bit disappointed there really was no song for them to ever find.  I am a singer and a music teacher, so it is possible, this just resinated in me a little more so because of my love of music.  It just seems like there are so many ways it could have been used.  I can't remember the Traveling People ever once hearing an Ogier sing.  I may have to re-read the series, but I don't think that ever happened.  And as for talents being lost, that was what the whole second have of the series was about.  People finding supposedly lost talents, and the manifestation of New talents and skills that hadn't even been thought of in the AoL.  It could have been addressed and played in well with the story.  Oh well.

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I had always imagined that the traveling people would meet up with the Ogier and here them sing and start to sing along with them.  I had thought this would somehow be important to the last battle.

So did I. And I also expected tahat Aiel will be there too (SHADO?) and that Aviendha will find them a song in that ter’angreal  music box

I have to agree.  I actually had been looking forward to the answer to the "mysterious song" from the Tuath'an (sp?) from the very beginning of the series.  I am a bit disappointed there really was no song for them to ever find.  I am a singer and a music teacher, so it is possible, this just resinated in me a little more so because of my love of music.  It just seems like there are so many ways it could have been used.  I can't remember the Traveling People ever once hearing an Ogier sing.  I may have to re-read the series, but I don't think that ever happened.  And as for talents being lost, that was what the whole second have of the series was about.  People finding supposedly lost talents, and the manifestation of New talents and skills that hadn't even been thought of in the AoL.  It could have been addressed and played in well with the story.  Oh well.

 Well there is the talent of the "voice" and the songs of growing. We see Rand using the talent.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi guys. I'm new here.. Never tried anything like this before. Iv been reading the series since about 2000. Been just about 12/13years, seems an apt number???...

Anyway, somethings been bothering me.. Didn't Rand have a dream at some point or another where he finds himself singing a song on his way through some city, while the "citizens" then start to join in with him...???

I'm sure I read it somewhere, but for the life me I can't find any reference to it... Please help me out if you know..

(Perhaps I dreamt it myself??)

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Hi guys. I'm new here.. Never tried anything like this before. Iv been reading the series since about 2000. Been just about 12/13years, seems an apt number???...

Anyway, somethings been bothering me.. Didn't Rand have a dream at some point or another where he finds himself singing a song on his way through some city, while the "citizens" then start to join in with him...???

I'm sure I read it somewhere, but for the life me I can't find any reference to it... Please help me out if you know..

(Perhaps I dreamt it myself??)

 

I think you are referring to the vision Rand saw when he passed through the glass pillars at Rhuidean.  The scene takes place in The Shadow Rising, when Rand sees through the eyes of his Aiel ancestors straight back to the Age of Legends.

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I'm familiar with the song in the "aiel past" but something still has me thinking that Rand "dreamed" of a different moment of singing, in a city(not field).

 

Still might be the song from the vision anyway.. Thank you.

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I'm familiar with the song in the "aiel past" but something still has me thinking that Rand "dreamed" of a different moment of singing, in a city(not field).

 

Still might be the song from the vision anyway.. Thank you.

 

There was the story of the Aiel who sang a song giving citizens a chance to flee in Tzora.

 

TSR, The Dedicated

You Da'shain have more courage than... Ten thousand Aiel linking arms and singing, trying to remind a madman of who they were and who he had been, trying to turn him with their bodies and a song. Jaric Mondoran killed them. He stood there, staring as though at a puzzle, killing them, and they kept closing their lines and singing. I am told he listened to the last Aiel for almost an hour before destroying him. And then Tzora burned, one huge flame consuming stone and metal and flesh. There is a sheet of glass where the second greatest city in the world once stood."

 

 

 

Edited by Suttree
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Hi guys. I'm new here.. Never tried anything like this before. Iv been reading the series since about 2000. Been just about 12/13years, seems an apt number???...

Anyway, somethings been bothering me.. Didn't Rand have a dream at some point or another where he finds himself singing a song on his way through some city, while the "citizens" then start to join in with him...???

I'm sure I read it somewhere, but for the life me I can't find any reference to it... Please help me out if you know..

(Perhaps I dreamt it myself??)

Actually it was one of Rand's nightmares from EotW. He dreams himself in an open country, with a shining white city in the near distance. As he approaches the city (clearly Tar Valon, or what he imagines TV looks like), the residents become joyful and happy, and 'guide' him towards a tall, white tower (THE White Tower) in the city's center. As he approaches, he attempts to turn away, explore the city a bit and the peoples start getting depressed (and the White Tower is in every direction). He finally decides to walk to the Tower (may as well, right?) and the citizens become happy and start singing and throwing flowers in his path. 

He enters the WT and Emperor Palpatine is waiting for him. ("I've been waiting for you" rasped the Myrdraal.)

(Eye of the World: Chapter 9).

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Hey guys.. Sorry my quote reply thingy isn't working..

 

Anyway, thanks Jedman. That sounds a lot more like what I remember...

Though... Uhhh.. Somehow I remember Rand himself singing, even though he doesn't recognize his voice, or the language or whatever.. But the more I think about it the more I'm thinking that your right and its that nightmare..

 

Thanks a lot all

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