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Logain's Arc (Full Spoilers)


Barid Bel Medar
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way back in EOTW Rand thought Moiraine and Lan actually knew Logain, not just knew of him. I thought with the planned prequel novels

we may have seen Moiraine encouraging Logain to be a false-dragon so she could sneak Rand in the back door so to speak.

It was disappointing just to learn that Logain thought he was the Dragon and gathered an army for Tear.and causing such destruction in Ghealden. 

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I liked Logain for the most part. Just started reread TEOTW, when he's laughing and regal even when shielded and in a cage in Caemlyn. He managed to cling to life after being gentled, and was clever enough to go along with the Aes Sedai plans, and then to take his chances and get to the Black Tower. He stuck by them and was ready to fight the Last Battle. 

 

Then he basically did very little. He became an empty character for the entire book while Androl stole the limelight. It should have been him vs Taim, after all that build up. It was a v disappointing ending to his arc. I guess his glory will have to be in the future which we will never get to see. 

 

I agree that Androl stole his thunder. I kinda like that Logain was internally scarred from battling the 13x13. Thought it was a great touch. But, after that, he did almost nothing. His story was one of the stories I was a bit disappointed in. 

 

I disagree that Androl stole his thunder.  Although (like most other people) I was expecting some sort of showdown with Taim, or maybe one of the other Forsaken, I am actually infinately happier that his 'glory' came not because of his strength in the power, but because of his strength of personality, because despite his attempts to teach himself that power was what mattered, he couldn't turn his back on civilians that were in trouble.  I found it to be a strong arc, and one of the best in the book.  Adding any of the stuff that Androl did would just detract from what he actually did that was so important, the entire BT arc was summed up for me in one sentance when the woman referred to it as a Talent and not a Curse and that was because of Logains actions, because he led the BT there to help. 

 

+1  I loved Logain´s part in AMoL. Of course I expected him to fight Taim too but this turned out so much better. He is one of the few charcters that had an inner struggle. 

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Andrlol can make gateways but in a face to face fight with a stronger channeler he would get blasted becuase they would easily cut his gateway weave before it formed just like what Demandred did to him on the battlefield.

 

Calling Logian skills as average after a fight with Demandred is hardly fair. Other than Rand no other person on the light side either male or female side would have been able to face Demandred. Egwene in a moment of clarity(rare for her big head) even thinks about that when she decided that she would not make her own 72 person circle and face him on the field.

 

I agree that there was no way for Logain to win against Demandred in that situation. So I am not calling Logain's skills average because of his loss.

But it that it is clear from their clash that Logain had no idea what type of weaves Demandred used in the most cases. So his knowledge and consequently his skills (or fighting ability etc.) are lacking. Which is perfectly understable with his (average male channeler's) background.

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Andrlol can make gateways but in a face to face fight with a stronger channeler he would get blasted becuase they would easily cut his gateway weave before it formed just like what Demandred did to him on the battlefield.

 

Calling Logian skills as average after a fight with Demandred is hardly fair. Other than Rand no other person on the light side either male or female side would have been able to face Demandred. Egwene in a moment of clarity(rare for her big head) even thinks about that when she decided that she would not make her own 72 person circle and face him on the field.

and yet Androl was able to force both Taim and Graendal to run in fear.  I think he could easily have killed Demandred if he had duplicated what he did at the tower and just started to have thousands of Sharan drop to their death especially effective if he placed the other gateway above the other Sharans, just drop about a hundred sharans on Demandred that should easily have killed him.

 

It was joke that he "defeated" Taim and Graendal. That is the reason that I have been saying that his skill are ridiculuosly owerpowered. Especially compared with other Talents. At least Graendal should have had a counter for his deed, because he was not the first who was born with his skill. There is an the intricate balance present in the world of WOT for everything, so it does make sense to have a way for channeler to neutralize his Talent aside from the Dreamspike.

He couldn't have killed off Demandred, because the latter (+ LTT) also had Talent with Travelling and Gates (see FOH? and indirectly BWB). If I remember correctly he even used it against Logain. 

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What I find strange is that Taim did not shield the over eager little teleporter. Androl is not strong yes and if he had nothing but his strength he would have been able to do what, light a candle at arm's reach and levitate a teapot and not that much more he would not be a danger to Taim, however Taim did know of his talent with portals so he should have shielded the man instead of acting like a DC super villain and allowed the weaker hero to be allowed to pull his tricks of.

 

That being said I do not think Androl stole Logain's thunder, but while I like the character I do think he stole the thunder of every one of the characters that have been in the books since the first two volumes. In many ways he was the final season of a TV series late addition who then do everything kind of character, however I do not think he stole Logain's thunder as I think that Logain's part in the book was both very good and it was fitting.

 

way back in EOTW Rand thought Moiraine and Lan actually knew Logain,
not just knew of him. I thought with the planned prequel novels


we may have seen Moiraine encouraging Logain to be a false-dragon so she could sneak Rand in the back door so to speak.


It was disappointing just to learn that Logain thought he was the
Dragon and gathered an army for Tear.and causing such destruction in
Ghealden.

 

Yeah I agree with you on that one.

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Andrlol can make gateways but in a face to face fight with a stronger channeler he would get blasted becuase they would easily cut his gateway weave before it formed just like what Demandred did to him on the battlefield.

 

Calling Logian skills as average after a fight with Demandred is hardly fair. Other than Rand no other person on the light side either male or female side would have been able to face Demandred. Egwene in a moment of clarity(rare for her big head) even thinks about that when she decided that she would not make her own 72 person circle and face him on the field.

 

I agree that there was no way for Logain to win against Demandred in that situation. So I am not calling Logain's skills average because of his loss.

But it that it is clear from their clash that Logain had no idea what type of weaves Demandred used in the most cases. So his knowledge and consequently his skills (or fighting ability etc.) are lacking. Which is perfectly understable with his (average male channeler's) background.

 

His skills are lacking in comparison to a forsaken not in comparison to a regular 3th age channeler. Would you call the skills of Cads average? she had to go in groups trying to fight Graendal who would have smoked her if she came alone.

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Andrlol can make gateways but in a face to face fight with a stronger channeler he would get blasted becuase they would easily cut his gateway weave before it formed just like what Demandred did to him on the battlefield.

 

Calling Logian skills as average after a fight with Demandred is hardly fair. Other than Rand no other person on the light side either male or female side would have been able to face Demandred. Egwene in a moment of clarity(rare for her big head) even thinks about that when she decided that she would not make her own 72 person circle and face him on the field.

 

I agree that there was no way for Logain to win against Demandred in that situation. So I am not calling Logain's skills average because of his loss.

But it that it is clear from their clash that Logain had no idea what type of weaves Demandred used in the most cases. So his knowledge and consequently his skills (or fighting ability etc.) are lacking. Which is perfectly understable with his (average male channeler's) background.

 

His skills are lacking in comparison to a forsaken not in comparison to a regular 3th age channeler. Would you call the skills of Cads average? she had to go in groups trying to fight Graendal who would have smoked her if she came alone.

 

I disagree, the skill gap between Cadsuane and Graendal should be much smaller (but the strength difference is significant and the latter may have had a stronger angreal). Thus, it was a surprise me that Cadsuane + Alivia + Talaan + Amys (this group contained two Forsaken level channelers!) couldn't overwhelm Graendal. I suspect that it just happened to give some spotlight for Aviendha (i.e again plot-driven contradiction). 

In general I think that the skills and more importantly knowledge of an average Ashaman are significantly lower than those of AS. They are good "weapons" like the damane which gives edge in duels but it doesn't mean much when you face with a Forsaken.

Note that they just starting to rediscover the intricacies of saidin after 3 thousand years. In contrast the WT preserved a lot of knowledge about the saidar, even if they forgot critical weaves (Travelling etc.).

In conclusion Logain is better than the most Ashaman, but his skills are probably at the same level as an average AS (or as Nynaeve?).  

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I think another problem is that with Saidar we got a bunch of Aes Sedai such as Elayne, Nyneave, and Egwene either rediscovering talents, or finding new ones all the time while with Saidin (at least with the Good Asha'man) this is reduced to Rand (who never really teaches anyone outside of showing someone a weave), Damer Flinn and to a lesser extant Androl (who is limited to gateways) so we basically got no one outside of Flinn who can really teach the Asha'man advanced weaves anymore.

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Actually, although it is not explicitly mentioned, the Asha'man are much more innovative than the Aes Sedai. As a whole, they are on par with the wondergirls for discoveries. It is that we just don't see it on-screen. 

 

Talents are a different matter, however, it is again implied that Asha'man also have a bunch of Talents. Flinn and Androl are the only ones we really actually see using their Talents, however, it is implied that other Asha'man have similar Talents. 

 

We have Logain with his seeing Ta'veren Talent, Sandomere can read residues and recreate weaves. Naeff has a Talent for creating Power Forged items. 

With another thousand or so Asha'man - it is implied - and logical to say - that they possess just as many Talents, if not more (because of their innovation. Aes Sedai sometimes don't even know they have Talents because they don't try.)  

 

So while the Asha'man may not have the knowledge the White Tower does, nor do they have the knowledge Rand could have given them- they are much more "modern" than the Aes Sedai. They are much more willing to "invent" new weaves. Just like the Bonding that Canler discovered. 

 

I don't think there will be a problem with weaves in the 4th Age. In fact, I would say the Asha'man would outstrip the Aes Sedai given a century or two if the White Tower doesn't start expanding their horizons. (Although I believe that they will, albeit slowly) 

 

If it wasn't for the Shadow infiltrating the Black Tower (and you can say the same for the White as well) creating chaos - they would have been able to advance even further. With that threat gone, I would say innovation would be at an all time high in the Black Tower. Unlike the Aes Sedai (some would say foolishly) they are willing to push the boundaries. 

 

edit: As for Logain being a poor leader choice: I say, what better choice?

 

First, the guy gets severed from the Source - yet manages to find the will to live on . He gets Healed, and instead of being a bitter ass (although he may think like it) he goes to the Black Tower. The guy then rallied the Light in the Black Tower, Taim (who is supposed to be the leader) feared him and couldn't control him. The man managed to gain the loyalty of half the Black Tower and went to Rand. He then gets captured by the Shadow and subjected to a 13x13 and manages to last dozens of sessions, when Evin couldn't even manage one, and Emarin - who is no pushover - barely lasted two. 

 

With Taint induced insanity, captured and severed, resisting dozens of Turning sessions - with all that in his past, he STILL fights for the Light and greater good. His internal thoughts are troublesome indeed, and so they would be! Yet despite all of this he gives up the second most powerful sa'angreal in the world - despite his fear induced by the taint and not wanting to be captured again - to save refugees, which provides the Black Tower no benefits (at the time, of course it does turn out that it helped a great deal.) He did it because he was still a good man at heart. 

 

Only Rand has endured more than Logain- no other character in the series has - they either broke and turned to the Shadow or died. 

 

That shows how strong Logain is. 

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Andrlol can make gateways but in a face to face fight with a stronger channeler he would get blasted becuase they would easily cut his gateway weave before it formed just like what Demandred did to him on the battlefield.

 

Calling Logian skills as average after a fight with Demandred is hardly fair. Other than Rand no other person on the light side either male or female side would have been able to face Demandred. Egwene in a moment of clarity(rare for her big head) even thinks about that when she decided that she would not make her own 72 person circle and face him on the field.

 

I agree that there was no way for Logain to win against Demandred in that situation. So I am not calling Logain's skills average because of his loss.

But it that it is clear from their clash that Logain had no idea what type of weaves Demandred used in the most cases. So his knowledge and consequently his skills (or fighting ability etc.) are lacking. Which is perfectly understable with his (average male channeler's) background.

 

His skills are lacking in comparison to a forsaken not in comparison to a regular 3th age channeler. Would you call the skills of Cads average? she had to go in groups trying to fight Graendal who would have smoked her if she came alone.

 

I disagree, the skill gap between Cadsuane and Graendal should be much smaller (but the strength difference is significant and the latter may have had a stronger angreal). Thus, it was a surprise me that Cadsuane + Alivia + Talaan + Amys (this group contained two Forsaken level channelers!) couldn't overwhelm Graendal. I suspect that it just happened to give some spotlight for Aviendha (i.e again plot-driven contradiction). 

In general I think that the skills and more importantly knowledge of an average Ashaman are significantly lower than those of AS. They are good "weapons" like the damane which gives edge in duels but it doesn't mean much when you face with a Forsaken.

Note that they just starting to rediscover the intricacies of saidin after 3 thousand years. In contrast the WT preserved a lot of knowledge about the saidar, even if they forgot critical weaves (Travelling etc.).

In conclusion Logain is better than the most Ashaman, but his skills are probably at the same level as an average AS (or as Nynaeve?).  

 

 

Logian was facing Demandred who had a full blown sa'angreal with him.IIRC Grendal did not have an angreal instead was in a circle while Cads and Avi both had angreals.

 

I agree the AS have more general knowledge of the OP than the AM.But they are weaker in duels which was what was going on with both the Forsaken.Androl pointed it out to his AS when she commented that the AS outside the BT have decades of experience.

Edited by XXX47
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First, the guy gets severed from the Source - yet manages to find the

will to live on . He gets Healed, and instead of being a bitter ass

(although he may think like it) he goes to the Black Tower. The guy then

rallied the Light in the Black Tower, Taim (who is supposed to be the

leader) feared him and couldn't control him. The man managed to gain the

loyalty of half the Black Tower and went to Rand. He then gets captured

by the Shadow and subjected to a 13x13 and manages to last dozens of

sessions, when Evin couldn't even manage one, and Emarin - who is no

pushover - barely lasted two.

 

I am not saying that Logain have not endured allot and pushed through it and that he is not a good leader for I agree with you there. I just wanted to comment on the finding the will to live after gentling thing that many have mentioned, he really did not do that very well, yes he survived for a while but that was more due to others than himself. Now I am not making light of severing, it is a fate worse than death for a WoT channeler and that he have managed to make it through that and not then just hiding in a corner and hiding every time someone makes a shield near him is rather impressive, however as for surviving, at the White Tower he had Accepted following him everywhere to keep him from killing himself and while he did perk up a bit while traveling with Siuan, Leane and Min he soon fall apart completely and if the three women had not spoon fed him he would have died long before they reached the rebel tower. Once they got Siuan's revenge plan under way he perks up again and functions but unless others had taken care of him he would have managed to kill himself at the Tower or just died on the way to the rebels.

 

Now if we look at Siuan she get severed and tortured in addition and in a few hours time she is on her feet despite how horribly "physically" painful severing is, she manages to keep Leane from falling apart and with Min's help she she flees, she then begin making plans, getting the group to where they need to go and keep it together. Logain however spent most of his time at the Towers either weeping or wandering around aimlessly hardly noticing what was around him and when he begun to just give up on living it was Leane and Min and to a lesser extent Siuan who had to take care of him and keep him alive. Now I know that the scenario here is not that Logain handeled severing poorly but rather that Siuan handled it extremely well however the case reminds he would have died if left to his own devices so him surviving gentling until healed could not really be credited to him.

 

Also if I do not remember it completely wrong it is mentioned somewhere that the average lifespan after the fact of a gentled man is one to three years and Logain spend a bit over a year in that condition until he is healed which do not mean that he managed to stay alive particularly long. Now again I do not say this makes him weak, he lived through something that all channelers are terrified of, he must have suffered immensely and it is a huge testament to him that despite that and despite his madness enhancing what must already be a rather huge trauma and fear he give up on the artifact he things will protect him and make him so strong that no one can take the Power from him again to go safe refugees, that speaks of an enormous strength of character. I am only saying that Logain did not manage to survive that long after severing and if others had not kept him alive he would have died pretty early on so it was not his strength of will that kept him alive until he could be healed.

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Greetings all -

 

I have a quick question.  I just now finished the book.  I must have missed something in my eagerness to get through it, but how did Logain get the seals from Mazrim Taim?  I know that Taim had them before the Black Tower was liberated from the shaddow.  I thought (assumed) that he still had them when he fled the Black Tower.

 

Later, I was reading how Androl was going to go look for him (Taim) to get the seals.  Then after finding him (and getting disguised as himself to go after Logain), he leaves without having the seals.  20 pages later (or so) there Logain is with the seals talking about how fragile they are.

 

Did I miss something?  Did Taim really lose them when he fled the Black Tower?

 

Sorry this is the one question I have and it has been burning my brain for the past 250 pages (I didn't want to get on any forumns until I was done with the book).

 

Thanks in advance

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Greetings all -

 

I have a quick question.  I just now finished the book.  I must have missed something in my eagerness to get through it, but how did Logain get the seals from Mazrim Taim?  I know that Taim had them before the Black Tower was liberated from the shaddow.  I thought (assumed) that he still had them when he fled the Black Tower.

 

Later, I was reading how Androl was going to go look for him (Taim) to get the seals.  Then after finding him (and getting disguised as himself to go after Logain), he leaves without having the seals.  20 pages later (or so) there Logain is with the seals talking about how fragile they are.

 

Did I miss something?  Did Taim really lose them when he fled the Black Tower?

 

Sorry this is the one question I have and it has been burning my brain for the past 250 pages (I didn't want to get on any forumns until I was done with the book).

 

Thanks in advance

 

You made a mistake with the bolded part. That is when Androl steals the seals from Taim. It's not said straight out, however. When walking away, Androl shows Pevara (I think it was her) a pouch he stole off of Taim. If you were reading quickly you may have missed it, but it's pretty clear it contains the seals.

Edited by Agitel
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Greetings all -

 

I have a quick question.  I just now finished the book.  I must have missed something in my eagerness to get through it, but how did Logain get the seals from Mazrim Taim?  I know that Taim had them before the Black Tower was liberated from the shaddow.  I thought (assumed) that he still had them when he fled the Black Tower.

 

Later, I was reading how Androl was going to go look for him (Taim) to get the seals.  Then after finding him (and getting disguised as himself to go after Logain), he leaves without having the seals.  20 pages later (or so) there Logain is with the seals talking about how fragile they are.

 

Did I miss something?  Did Taim really lose them when he fled the Black Tower?

 

Sorry this is the one question I have and it has been burning my brain for the past 250 pages (I didn't want to get on any forumns until I was done with the book).

 

Thanks in advance

 

You made a mistake with the bolded part. That is when Androl steals the seals from Taim. It's not said straight out, however. When walking away, Androl shows Pevara (I think it was her) a pouch he stole off of Taim. If you were reading quickly you may have missed it, but it's pretty clear it contains the seals.

 

 

You are right!  I reread that part twice looking for that very thing.  But after you pointed it out I reread it again.  Here it is on page 739, "Androl sat down in a heap, trying to still his heart.  Then, he held up the pouch he had pulled off Taim's belt while stumbling to his feet."

 

Thanks!  That was driving me crazy.  I don't know how I missed that (especially after re-reading that very part).

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That being said I do not think Androl stole Logain's thunder, but

while I like the character I do think he stole the thunder of every one

of the characters that have been in the books since the first two

volumes. In many ways he was the final season of a TV series late

addition who then do everything kind of character, however I do not

think he stole Logain's thunder as I think that Logain's part in the

book was both very good and it was fitting.

I completely agree with this.  And I liked Androl, too.  But he had too big a role for a new character in the last book.  Alone he had more POVs than: Min, Logain, Loial, Nynaeve, and Moiraine, which is ridiculous.  Nynaeve and Min are very much main characters, and Moiraine should not have had less screen time than Androl when she has been missing for 8 books.  When you take the combined POVs of Androl and Pevara (i.e. their arc), their arc is larger than Aviendha's, Lan's, and Elayne's.  Totally out of proportion.

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Yeah I agree Androl's part was out of proportion to the rest it was very clear that he was the author's pet character, however like I said I do not think he did anything Logain was supposed to do, I think it was more than Androl got to do everything that unspecified Asha'man was supposed to do and that is why his part got so extremely large. I think that Logain did exactly what he was supposed to, but since he is my second favorite character I would have loved to see more chapters with him in it, that being said I think it is more other characters that the focus on Androl took away from. At least we finally got point of view sections with Logain at least, I have been waiting for that for a long time.

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I was very glad to see how Logain's arc ended. I found it positive and constructive, offering hope for the future.

 

And I'm wondering about that child he saved, a toddler 'perhaps two years of age'... I wonder if he was a particularly ugly child...?

:cool: 

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Andrlol can make gateways but in a face to face fight with a stronger channeler he would get blasted becuase they would easily cut his gateway weave before it formed just like what Demandred did to him on the battlefield.

 

Calling Logian skills as average after a fight with Demandred is hardly fair. Other than Rand no other person on the light side either male or female side would have been able to face Demandred. Egwene in a moment of clarity(rare for her big head) even thinks about that when she decided that she would not make her own 72 person circle and face him on the field.

and yet Androl was able to force both Taim and Graendal to run in fear.  I think he could easily have killed Demandred if he had duplicated what he did at the tower and just started to have thousands of Sharan drop to their death especially effective if he placed the other gateway above the other Sharans, just drop about a hundred sharans on Demandred that should easily have killed him.

 

It was joke that he "defeated" Taim and Graendal. That is the reason that I have been saying that his skill are ridiculuosly owerpowered. Especially compared with other Talents. At least Graendal should have had a counter for his deed, because he was not the first who was born with his skill. There is an the intricate balance present in the world of WOT for everything, so it does make sense to have a way for channeler to neutralize his Talent aside from the Dreamspike.

He couldn't have killed off Demandred, because the latter (+ LTT) also had Talent with Travelling and Gates (see FOH? and indirectly BWB). If I remember correctly he even used it against Logain. 

In case you forgot, Androl was not the only one channeling there.  There were 20+ male channelers who entered the fight, do you honestly think Graendal/Taim would be able to deflect the weaves from 20 people, and still have enough to deflect Androl's puny weave?

Remember, neither of them considered Androl to be a threat (hence not shielding him) so his weaves would have received the absolute least priorty for deflection

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I really think that the problem here is more Taim who tend to just ignore anything but the One Power and then strength in the One Power so he do the typical evil super villain mistake of ignoring the ones he consider to weak to hurt him. It would have cost Taim nothing to shield Androl, or set him on fire for that matter, but he did not bother as he just considered Androl to be an annoyance, here I think the point was less to show that Androl is awesome and more about showing how Taim's arrogance is flawed and a mistake. I sort of like that. I think a good David vs Goliath scene can lift a book.

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I really think that the problem here is more Taim who tend to just ignore anything but the One Power and then strength in the One Power so he do the typical evil super villain mistake of ignoring the ones he consider to weak to hurt him. It would have cost Taim nothing to shield Androl, or set him on fire for that matter, but he did not bother as he just considered Androl to be an annoyance, here I think the point was less to show that Androl is awesome and more about showing how Taim's arrogance is flawed and a mistake. I sort of like that. I think a good David vs Goliath scene can lift a book.

Except for the fact that Taim and Graendal clearly run away because of what Androl was about to do.  You cant say that Taim was clearly underestimating Androl when Taim is escaping from the Black Tower for good because of Androl.  Keep in mind that Taim and Graendal had a ton of channelers and Black Ajah with them that Androl then kills after the forsaken run away.

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Well Androl is not exactly alone either, yes he is very creative with his gateways, but it is not like the others on his side just sit around doing nothing. My point however was that Taim underestimated Androl due to his very limited strength and then it turned out that he could kick ass anyway using his wit and creative utilization of what he got. It would be like the big bad brute who just bush the 12 year old little girl off for off course she would not be a threat to him directly, and he do not even bother to restrain her, and then she go and figure out how to get a gun and comes back and shoots him. Androl is no threat to Tiam directly, but he is smart and he manages to use what he got in ways that are very creative which then points out that it is Taim's own arrogance who defeats him there as if he had only shielded or killed Androl he would not be in that situation, but since he just brush him off as an annoying bug...well some annoying bugs bite.

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Well Androl is not exactly alone either, yes he is very creative with his gateways, but it is not like the others on his side just sit around doing nothing. My point however was that Taim underestimated Androl due to his very limited strength and then it turned out that he could kick ass anyway using his wit and creative utilization of what he got. It would be like the big bad brute who just bush the 12 year old little girl off for off course she would not be a threat to him directly, and he do not even bother to restrain her, and then she go and figure out how to get a gun and comes back and shoots him. Androl is no threat to Tiam directly, but he is smart and he manages to use what he got in ways that are very creative which then points out that it is Taim's own arrogance who defeats him there as if he had only shielded or killed Androl he would not be in that situation, but since he just brush him off as an annoying bug...well some annoying bugs bite.

Well Taim still could have fought back especially considering that all of Logain's powerful followers were already turned.  Instead he ran away like a scared child.

Edited by Charred Knight
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I don't know the situation was chaos and it might be that Taim, who have always been practical, if it is one thing the man is, its practical, that he just found it better and safer to run away from a potentially dangerous situation and just deal with the problem later when he did not have what was it 20+ channelers throwing weaves at him. Taim is not stupid, he knows that he is not immortal, he can be killed, captured or worse by other channelers if they get in a lucky shot on him.

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Taim's turned welyn, mezar, sandomere in addtion of having the likes of miishraile, coteren and god knows how many other turned ashamen and black ajah under his disposal.

 

yet he lost to a pageboy and bunch of kids

 

I am still trying to get my head around it

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Well Androl is not exactly alone either, yes he is very creative with his gateways, but it is not like the others on his side just sit around doing nothing. My point however was that Taim underestimated Androl due to his very limited strength and then it turned out that he could kick ass anyway using his wit and creative utilization of what he got. It would be like the big bad brute who just bush the 12 year old little girl off for off course she would not be a threat to him directly, and he do not even bother to restrain her, and then she go and figure out how to get a gun and comes back and shoots him. Androl is no threat to Tiam directly, but he is smart and he manages to use what he got in ways that are very creative which then points out that it is Taim's own arrogance who defeats him there as if he had only shielded or killed Androl he would not be in that situation, but since he just brush him off as an annoying bug...well some annoying bugs bite.

Well Taim still could have fought back especially considering that all of Logain's powerful followers were already turned.  Instead he ran away like a scared child.

 

 

What good is it to throw weaves at Androl and friends when all Androl had to do was use gateways to cause those weaves to attack Taim and his darkfriend asha'man? Androl's ingenuity caused several of the darkfriend and turned Asha'man to be killed. I do not blame Taim at all for escaping.

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