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Logain's Arc (Full Spoilers)


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I had a hard time getting invested in his turmoil about being powerless, mostly because, well, he's so powerful compared to the average person? Like when people who make three times the national average complain about being poor, that kind of thing. And I'm not saying that his fears of others controlling him aren't utterly justified, just that, you know, when you announce your intention to conquer a large swath of the world ("I am the Dragon Reborn!"), you bring *some* trouble on yourself, you know?

 

This was also a case in which Min's vision shattered anticipation rather than built it. I knew he would end up doing the right thing, so I was mostly just anxious for him to get there.

 

The more I think about it... Logain's been one of my favorite characters in the series, but he basically came across as a sulky brat in this book. 

 

I *did* cry when he told the woman that the Black Tower would always be there to help, though, so maybe I'm not giving the arc enough credit. And I'm glad it was Logain who broke the seals; that seems appropriate. I hope he has fun dealing with Cadsuane in future Black Tower-White Tower relations; not sorry to miss all the petty grievances and jockeying for minor symbols of power and control they'll undoubtedly exchange...

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Personally -and I suspect many will disagree - I loved Logain's arc. 

 

I think you are missing some key factors in your assessment, although certainly it is understandable. However, Logain's madness is that he fears losing the OP, which extends to Power in general. His severing in the first book and subsequently the attempt to Turn him changed him for the worse. He fears that if he isn't powerful enough, that the Aes Sedai and the Shadow will destroy the Black Tower. He thinks he needs power, extreme power, which will make everyone fear him. Channelling strongly isn't what he is talking about. The sa'angreal is a different case, since it is EXTREMELY Powerful, something that can destroy nations. But he wants SOMETHING that will protect him and the Black Tower from people. 

 

He is sick of the prejudice against male channelers, he wants the Black Tower to live in peace. With his madness and torture manifested, he thinks the way to do that is by acquiring something that will make him feared. 

 

He struggles with it, and in the end his inherent good nature wins out, where he realises that helping people and showing them that the Asha'man are heroes, not monsters, gave him exactly what he wanted.

 

His glory I felt fitting, the Sealbreaker and hero of the people. Sure, he didn't go round killing Dreadlords and Forsaken every second minute, but his glory, for me, was much more emotional and important than glory in defeating an enemy. He restored the good name of male channelers. Channelling saidin as a Talent, not a curse.   

 

Logain place was more a symbol, and ideal, rather than an actual fighter. Androl and co. did everything for Logain and his ideals. They follow him, he could have made or broken the Black Tower. It wasn't his power or prowess that was important, but his inspiration. His sheer willpower and dedication to the Light made him. Not the strength of his fireballs. 

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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It was kind of odd that hes story was told threw a different person's POV, but I thought it was fine.  I still think a showdown between him and Taim would have been much more epic then what happened, but w/e.

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Androl played a bigger role than Logain. Dude rescues Logain, rescues Elaynes army, discovers telepathy and impresses a Red Sitter. Logain, aside from breaking the seals, basically whined his way through and lusted after power. His heart was in the right place, wanting to protect and preserve the Black Tower, but still, one of the more powerful male channellers whining like a little boy seems wrong

 

Okay, he did kill a few dreadlords and saved the refugees, but that don't beat making a gateway to bring in lqvq to destroy the enemy

Edited by Ozzie_aiel
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I was disappointed that it was Toveine who was being Turned. Her character was developed better than Gabrelle, and her relation to Logain can mirror Pevara's to Androl. While Toveine being Turned touched my emotion deeper than Gabrelle being Turned, I think that Logain-his Aes Sedai interaction also would be better with Toveine as his Aes Sedai.

 

Also, where was Gabrelle when Toveine being Turned? Shouldn't Taim also Turned her too?

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I agree completely with Barid :)

 

 

Logains finish was for me one of the best! (and I really liked the ending, although I seem to be in the minority on that). I felt it was a fitting (excelent) end to Mins viewing, that his glory didn't rest in his Power, but in him as an individual (but then, I'm a fan of the individual over Power).

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I was disappointed that it was Toveine who was being Turned. Her character was developed better than Gabrelle, and her relation to Logain can mirror Pevara's to Androl. While Toveine being Turned touched my emotion deeper than Gabrelle being Turned, I think that Logain-his Aes Sedai interaction also would be better with Toveine as his Aes Sedai.

 

Also, where was Gabrelle when Toveine being Turned? Shouldn't Taim also Turned her too?

They only needed one more I guess.

 

Gabrelle was/is Logain's lover. I think that a big part of Logain's arc, written with a little bit of subtly, was that Logain realized that Gabrelle didn't feel for him quite what he thought that she felt, and he was trying to win her over. Yes, there were other moral considerations, but his story in no small part was about a guy trying to impress a woman he cares about. Over the course of the book, I think that Gabrelle really does come to care for him.

 

So, there's that.

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I've always thought Logain was a selfish jerk (proclaiming himself the Dragon Reborn with no proof and destroying cities proves it), this book confirmed it with his selfish search for power when the world was about to end, though he came around somewhat at the end.

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Personally -and I suspect many will disagree - I loved Logain's arc. 

 

I think you are missing some key factors in your assessment, although certainly it is understandable. However, Logain's madness is that he fears losing the OP, which extends to Power in general. His severing in the first book and subsequently the attempt to Turn him changed him for the worse. He fears that if he isn't powerful enough, that the Aes Sedai and the Shadow will destroy the Black Tower. He thinks he needs power, extreme power, which will make everyone fear him. Channelling strongly isn't what he is talking about. The sa'angreal is a different case, since it is EXTREMELY Powerful, something that can destroy nations. But he wants SOMETHING that will protect him and the Black Tower from people. 

 

He is sick of the prejudice against male channelers, he wants the Black Tower to live in peace. With his madness and torture manifested, he thinks the way to do that is by acquiring something that will make him feared. 

 

He struggles with it, and in the end his inherent good nature wins out, where he realises that helping people and showing them that the Asha'man are heroes, not monsters, gave him exactly what he wanted.

 

His glory I felt fitting, the Sealbreaker and hero of the people. Sure, he didn't go round killing Dreadlords and Forsaken every second minute, but his glory, for me, was much more emotional and important than glory in defeating an enemy. He restored the good name of male channelers. Channelling saidin as a Talent, not a curse.   

 

Logain place was more a symbol, and ideal, rather than an actual fighter. Androl and co. did everything for Logain and his ideals. They follow him, he could have made or broken the Black Tower. It wasn't his power or prowess that was important, but his inspiration. His sheer willpower and dedication to the Light made him. Not the strength of his fireballs. 

Preach it! Although one thing I disagree with is that Logain's glory hasn't come. We saw the start of it, a foreshadowing, when the Asha'man saved the refugees. His glory is more of a lifetime thing IMO.

 

People whining about Logain being a whiner... well what do you expect? He is mad, he is tortured, he is insecure. Not everybody has to be a badass. He found his way back to what's right.

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I've always thought Logain was a selfish jerk (proclaiming himself the Dragon Reborn with no proof and destroying cities proves it), this book confirmed it with his selfish search for power when the world was about to end, though he came around somewhat at the end.

 

It's not too surprising that he thought he was the Dragon Reborn, considering the long winter and the obvious implications. And his POV suggests that he's a bit madder than we assumed him to be. He's always fought on principle, and has taken great risk to do so.

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A worthless character, Androl is the true leader. 

 

Logain has only endured a small fraction of what the DR has. Even excluding the DR, look at someone like Egwene, the torture, the capture, and Egwene is merely a child of 18...

 

Logain is a whining crybaby.

Edited by Entreri
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A worthless character, Androl is the true leader. 

 

Logain has only endured a small fraction of what the DR has. Even excluding the DR, look at someone like Egwene, the torture, the capture, and Egwene is merely a child of 18...

 

Logain is a whining crybaby.

I think you're being a little harsh.

 

Logain was stilled, generally considered by most a fate worse than death and survived despite having little hope of anything getting better. He's then captured and tortured and manages to resist a turning process, for weeks, that most give in to within days (being generous).

 

The only real thing that happened to Eg that comes close is her capture by the Seanchan. Imo the spanking by the Tower falls a long way short of either stilling, turning or the a'dam.

 

But you are right, she is younger.

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I've always thought Logain was a selfish jerk (proclaiming himself the Dragon Reborn with no proof and destroying cities proves it), this book confirmed it with his selfish search for power when the world was about to end, though he came around somewhat at the end.

 

It's not too surprising that he thought he was the Dragon Reborn, considering the long winter and the obvious implications. And his POV suggests that he's a bit madder than we assumed him to be. He's always fought on principle, and has taken great risk to do so.

Didn't he declare himself the DR before the winter had stretched for so long? I haven't reread EOTW in a while but IIRC there were reports about it and massive battles in Ghealdan, in Two Rivers, the back end of nowhere, at Winternight (supposed to be the start of spring).
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I generally agree with Barad on this one.  I also think it was a nice twist on Min's viewing as the glory for Logain will be less about power and control -- the things he wanted -- and instead he'll be remembered as the one who made male channellers respected again.  That's pretty profound and consequently I thought this was one of the arcs that was finished really well. 

I didn't see him as a whiner, probably someone who is doing a better job of hiding his weaknesses/trauma/possible madness than most.  And when he threw himself at Dem I was thinking this was how his glory would come, he'd kill Dem and not Taim as everyone expected.  Then he got his ass kicked and barely got out alive.  Nice touch.

Androl I liked but he was a little bit of an over achiever. Don't forget to add stealing back the Seals to his improbably long list of achievements.  Mind you, before the book some feared that Fain was going to be the series' Gollum.  I think it was Taim; I mean really, you pull off the biggest heist in history and then keep pulling out the Seals to lovingly stroke (my precious) and keep them on a pouch tied to your  belt.  Really?

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I thought Logain's arc was pretty good overall.  The only serious complaint I have with him is that his last PoV's actually left me thinking he was too internally flawed to be a leader of any magnitude.  That could just be my personal thoughts though - overall, one of the better story arcs under these last three books.

Edited by Mark D
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I've always thought Logain was a selfish jerk (proclaiming himself the Dragon Reborn with no proof and destroying cities proves it), this book confirmed it with his selfish search for power when the world was about to end, though he came around somewhat at the end.

 

It's not too surprising that he thought he was the Dragon Reborn, considering the long winter and the obvious implications. And his POV suggests that he's a bit madder than we assumed him to be. He's always fought on principle, and has taken great risk to do so.

Didn't he declare himself the DR before the winter had stretched for so long? I haven't reread EOTW in a while but IIRC there were reports about it and massive battles in Ghealdan, in Two Rivers, the back end of nowhere, at Winternight (supposed to be the start of spring).

 

If Bel Tine is a true parallel to Beltane, then it's the first day of May, halfway between the spring equinox and the summer solstice. The lingering winter would have had more significance in the southern countries, too. Spring was already a month behind in the Two Rivers.

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What Logain's arc is missing to make it more powerful is a full scene where he's subjected to Turning and where we're exposed to more of his inner turmoil (which would ramp up during the Turning process, I'd imagine). The POVs that we had with him were toward the end of his arc and were filling in his internal feelings as he was turning an emotional corner. And though I wouldn't want to get rid of them and their scenes, Androl and Pevara steal the spotlight away from Logain.

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What Logain's arc is missing to make it more powerful is a full scene where he's subjected to Turning and where we're exposed to more of his inner turmoil (which would ramp up during the Turning process, I'd imagine). The POVs that we had with him were toward the end of his arc and were filling in his internal feelings as he was turning an emotional corner. And though I wouldn't want to get rid of them and their scenes, Androl and Pevara steal the spotlight away from Logain.

 

Ya, I agree.  At least, a scene prior to him being "broken" in some fashion by the Turning would have been beneficial to his story arc.

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I was very worried about his arc because of how much importance was placed on Androl, but it worked very, very well. His angst worked because, in addition to being well written (Sanderson does angst well, e.g., Perrin, The Way of Kings), it was rooted in his experiences being gentled and the attempted Turning. That wondering whether the Turning attempts broke something inside of him was powerful. I think as readers we're entitled to assume that the Turning is an all of nothing thing, but we don't know that, and more importantly he doesn't. I wasn't thrown off by Min's prophecy. We've seen that foreshadowing subverted before (e.g., Sheriam), and there can be plenty of glory for a despot. I was genuinely worried he was going to go there, and although he started veering a bit into mustache-twirling megalomania territory for a bit, the redemption really, really worked, and did bring tears to my eyes.

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I think some people will be disappointed by Logains story arc because after they found out he would rise to glory they expected him to kill Taim or a Forsaken. Logain became peoples favorite character because many fans thought his glory was to be found in his fighting abilities. I LOVE the fact that Logain's glory came from showing people that the Asha Men were not evil and Men channalers were not just okay, but righteous.

 

I think it was awesome that Logain and Egwene both found glory through opposite means. Especially when Men are supposed to be stronger at fighting than women.

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I think some people will be disappointed by Logains story arc because after they found out he would rise to glory they expected him to kill Taim or a Forsaken. Logain became peoples favorite character because many fans thought his glory was to be found in his fighting abilities. I LOVE the fact that Logain's glory came from showing people that the Asha Men were not evil and Men channalers were not just okay, but righteous.

 

I think it was awesome that Logain and Egwene both found glory through opposite means. Especially when Men are supposed to be stronger at fighting than women.

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I think some people will be disappointed by Logains story arc because after they found out he would rise to glory they expected him to kill Taim or a Forsaken. Logain became peoples favorite character because many fans thought his glory was to be found in his fighting abilities. I LOVE the fact that Logain's glory came from showing people that the Asha Men were not evil and Men channalers were not just okay, but righteous.

 

I think it was awesome that Logain and Egwene both found glory through opposite means. Especially when Men are supposed to be stronger at fighting than women.

As is fitting for a Wheel of Time book, AMoL subverted gender norms HARD. Never has the discriminate killing of women by men done more for gender equality.

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I think some people will be disappointed by Logains story arc because after they found out he would rise to glory they expected him to kill Taim or a Forsaken. Logain became peoples favorite character because many fans thought his glory was to be found in his fighting abilities. I LOVE the fact that Logain's glory came from showing people that the Asha Men were not evil and Men channalers were not just okay, but righteous.

 

I think it was awesome that Logain and Egwene both found glory through opposite means. Especially when Men are supposed to be stronger at fighting than women.

 

Agreed, I loved how it didn't turn out the way we expected.  Logain's glory in AMoL was much more meaningful than just being the one to kill Taim or Demandred.

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quite funny in the beginning i really disliked ( read: a nasty word i wont utter ) but in the end i thought he and Pervara was a quite funny couple to follow (  if you cut out all the emotional bits ) they lightened the mood in the otherwise black battle . The ploy with Androl being disguised as himself was funny even if it may have been a little over pronounced. The turning of Evin - god but but hartshattering sad

Edited by Treeberad
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