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Egwene's Arc (Full Spoilers)


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Some proof that Egwene may be a Hero of the Horn:

 

 

 

Bela's death was the runaway winner for most brought up subject, to which Brandon usually arched his arm across the head of Memory Keeper Avienda, pointed at Harriet and said, "Blame her."  At one point he said he wrote a scene where she fought back to life, but Harriet cut it.  She overheard this, said it wasn't true and Brandon responded that he'd wanted to.  He then said that he likes to think that when the horn is called next one of the heroes will be riding a shaggy, gray mare.

 

This seems to confirm that Birgette was a special case when she came back when the Horn called. She was never really born, after all.

 

Of course, Bela has morphed into a gray mare here, and this could just be Brandon's preference and not cannon or anything. But if he wasn't completely joking, its pretty obvious who would be riding Bela... 

When you say she was never really born, in a way, she was. The pattern was working backwards with her- erasing her memories of Gaidal, past battles, etc. However, when she died, she was once again at the pattern's complete disposal.

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Some proof that Egwene may be a Hero of the Horn:

 

 

 

Bela's death was the runaway winner for most brought up subject, to which Brandon usually arched his arm across the head of Memory Keeper Avienda, pointed at Harriet and said, "Blame her."  At one point he said he wrote a scene where she fought back to life, but Harriet cut it.  She overheard this, said it wasn't true and Brandon responded that he'd wanted to.  He then said that he likes to think that when the horn is called next one of the heroes will be riding a shaggy, gray mare.

 

This seems to confirm that Birgette was a special case when she came back when the Horn called. She was never really born, after all.

 

Of course, Bela has morphed into a gray mare here, and this could just be Brandon's preference and not cannon or anything. But if he wasn't completely joking, its pretty obvious who would be riding Bela... 

When you say she was never really born, in a way, she was. The pattern was working backwards with her- erasing her memories of Gaidal, past battles, etc. However, when she died, she was once again at the pattern's complete disposal.

Her memory was being erased. She wasn't growing younger. This is not the strange case of Birgette Buttons.

 

Suttree: Yeah. Sad that we don't have the name.

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Honestly...

 

I thought this book was rushed. There was A TON of stuff that had to happen ofc and because of that I accepted that it WAS rushed. But I mean... if you want to talk about weaves coming out of nowhere? How about Yukiris air cushions? THAT was nowhere. We knew that she had been experimenting with gateways- alright that Ill buy and willingly. But yea- there was a LOT of stuff that kinda just came down without warning.

 

As for Egwene- I didnt like how she was written in this last book. At one point, in the beginning, she was thinking about how Elayne might have a point about the seals and making her own thoughts about it- Elayne tells her to talk to Rand about them and everything seems fine. Then, she does an abrupt aboutface and you feel like you've been slapped with a "WTF just happened?" Also, I thought that Moiraine telling her "Oh dear. Have you forgotten about this?" That COMPLETELY annihilated her standing as Amyrlin. Completely. Gone. It was like she had PMS- or that we just needed to have something dramatic happen in order for Moiraines entrance to matter (matter more then her return did <3). The war scenes were very well done imo- but it was obvious that Egwenes personal life was NOT going to matter as much as....say.... Perrins. But she does have a few moments to herself where she thinks about how guilty she feels to be sleeping when others are fighting, etc etc. Her going numb with grief and rage after Gawayns death is completely true to humanity. You cant take the pain so you ignore it by doing something else. I think that one sequence was written amazingly but I do have one issue. If her weave is the opposite of balefire- why arent some Aes Sedai brought back? I thought they might. Also- in the books its said that she instinctively knows that the weave wouldnt affect people who werent as strongly tied to the DO to the same extent as people who were.  I was sad at her death but there were a lot of close calls in that battle and a lot of people DIDNT survive. Personally I dont know that there IS a white tower- and Egwene's decision to keep the novices and Accepted back from the front lines made perfect sense to me. They are children to her and you dont bring children to a battle. They were getting plenty of use just in healing as it was. That WAS a mothers decision and Egwene does see herself as a mother. What intrigues me is that Cadsuane has no knowledge of any of the deals that Egwene made- does the Hall itself for that matter?

 

All in all, I liked Egwene in this whole series. It does make sense that she died- someone was going to have to and she would be extremely willing to die for her beliefs. Yes, she was annoying at times but at the same time, who wouldnt have been at her age doing the things that she was doing? When she became Amyrlin she did the best she could do. I honestly think that she had the mindset of anyone put in that position- doesnt a captain or general of an army HAVE to appear to be in control at all times even when theyre crumbling inside? She was no less essential then they.

Edited by Alia
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Oh for crying out loud- this may or may not suddenly appear in my post and if it does I do apologize for saying this (twice):

 

Also- the Green Ajah is given written accolades to their performance in the battles- in Egwenes POV it is said that they live up to their name.

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As I said in the sad thread, Egwene's death didn't hit me all that hard at first. Maybe it was because of writing or because I secretly knew that is what would happen (even though I hoped against it), but it was only until after I had finished that I was hit with a wave of sadness at her death. So i guess it wasn't so much the writing, though it was very well written, or the fact she did feel a changed character in that book, but just at the idea of the loss of her character from the world. The thought that I felt summed that up was:

 

At the start, out of the 5 main Emond's Fielders, only one wanted to go.

 

And by the end, only one did.

 

Thinking that is what got me, and it got me quite hard. While her character in the book was far from flawless, and the fact I didn't like her all that much (I certainly didn't dislike her) throughout the series, it was the idea of a lack of Egwene in the Wheel of Time universe that got to me. I think if more than one of the EFs had to die, it wouldn't have impacted on myself as much as it did. 

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If the Wheel goes for an infinite cycles, anything is possible with infinity. Female Dragon wielding saidin, men being weaker having to link, oh yeah.  I can see that. 

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True, true. That doesn't help all that much though, that while it will be Egwene's soul that is spun out and so forth, it won't be Egwene - of the Two Rivers, Amyrlin etc. She is the only one of the original cast of characters that we were introduced to in Emond's field that won't be seeing the 4th Age. I find that kinda heartbreaking, despite the good she did the world.  :sad:

 

 

 

EDIT: I suppose I should start tugging on my braid now.  :tongue:

 

EDIT2:

Moved to discussion thread.

Edited by Vieira151
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One of the things that bothers me about the conclusion of Egwene and Gawn's arc is the way prophecy/dreaming was handled.  It's also my problem with the Siuan/Byrne Min vision wrap up.  What happens is consistent with the dreams / prophecies / visions, but it doesn't really make sense.  I always felt like there would be a crucial decision that would have to be made in order to end up down one path or another.  I guess it can be argued that it happened with both...but it all seemed a bit...understated, if that makes sense.  D.GOOCH

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The purpose of the the 200 page last battle was that everything was rushed. Everything had to be a quick decision, without a lot of thought being put into it. Sanderson intended to create a strong mood of urgency. So when Gawyn died during the LB, Egwene didn't really have time to consider her dreams and prophecies. She was just concerned with doing her duty as Amyrlin Seat.

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I get that -- I just wanted to see some point to it.  With Siuan and Byrne, I would have liked to see them both make the conscious decision to part (guaranteeing death) in order to do something important.  That would have been cool.  The same with Egwene and Gawn.  It just seemed all perfunctory (cross off the list one more prophecy) rather than really necessary to move the plot along.  D.GOOCH

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Siuan and Gareth thought that their divide and die decision came with the Seanchan in ToM, the decision was made by Siuan after Min pointed out that it wasn't. It was very quick tho.

 

I thought that Egs & Gawyns choice came when he chose to go back to her? The whole point there was that they weren't sure which decision led to which outcome, I quite liked the uncertainty there.

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Am I the only one who found the whole anti-Balefire thing to be a bit of an ass-pull?

What do you mean?  Baelfire was outlawed during the War of Power, why would it be any different now?

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Am I the only one who found the whole anti-Balefire thing to be a bit of an ass-pull?

What do you mean?  Baelfire was outlawed during the War of Power, why would it be any different now?

He's talking about Egwene's weave.

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Am I the only one who found the whole anti-Balefire thing to be a bit of an ass-pull?

What do you mean?  Baelfire was outlawed during the War of Power, why would it be any different now?
He's talking about Egwene's weave.

 

Technically, no it's not an ass-pull (although in a series this long, elements introduced in the last book does feel like one). Although a lot of the build-up to it is in the recent books, it is there before she uses it to save the day. Their's the attempt in TAR to shore up the pattern, her dream of the crystal pillars, and a conversation in tGS between her and the Yellow Ajah Head about healing not just being about healing (when they're all trying to recruit her into their Ajah, the Yellow is the only one seen on screen (I think)). Additionally it leaves us with the chicken and egg scenario of (presumably) her 'patch' creates the 'thinness' that's drilled through in the next 2nd Age...

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Egwene? Of all the characters, she ends up dead? Egwene?!

After all she went through?... The Seanchan, Halima, The Tower, Gawyn...

After all her efforts, not only to unite the tower for the last battle, but also to change its basic principals.

All in vain.

I was shocked! So much that, right till the last page of the book, I was expecting her to be brought back somehow.

 

Of all the main characters, SHE was the one that should have survived the last battle.

Rand did his job, fighting the Dark One.

Perrin did his job, saving Two Rivers and protecting the Dragon.

Mat did his job, as a general and with Mashadar.

Moiraine did her job, protecting the Dragon.

Lan did his job, avenging his fallen kingdom.

Nynaeve did her job, caring for them all.

 

Egwene was the one how's job was beyond the last battle. To finish what she started in the Tower, to bring all of the channelers together (or at least to remove the deep rifts between them), to protect them from the Seanchan.

Yet she was the one to bite the dust...

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I wasn't a big Egwene fan until she was a captive in the Tower. I thought she was kind of a know it all and she really annoyed me. Same thing with Gawyn actually, so I was kind of happy when they ended up together. But the last three or four books, she really grew on me. She was such a badass! And her death did hit me the hardest (except for Bela's, lol why'd he have to kill her?!) But wow, Egwene impressed me and she could have done so much good for this new Age! And that line, where her soul rides the wave of power into the light...still hits me hard.

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Egwene? Of all the characters, she ends up dead? Egwene?!

After all she went through?... The Seanchan, Halima, The Tower, Gawyn...

After all her efforts, not only to unite the tower for the last battle, but also to change its basic principals.

All in vain.

I was shocked! So much that, right till the last page of the book, I was expecting her to be brought back somehow.

 

Of all the main characters, SHE was the one that should have survived the last battle.

Rand did his job, fighting the Dark One.

Perrin did his job, saving Two Rivers and protecting the Dragon.

Mat did his job, as a general and with Mashadar.

Moiraine did her job, protecting the Dragon.

Lan did his job, avenging his fallen kingdom.

Nynaeve did her job, caring for them all.

 

Egwene was the one how's job was beyond the last battle. To finish what she started in the Tower, to bring all of the channelers together (or at least to remove the deep rifts between them), to protect them from the Seanchan.

Yet she was the one to bite the dust...

I can't say that her death bothered me much because I've never cared for the character, but I agree with you. I thought she was safe for sure. I thought they were clearly building to a long, long reign of Egwene the Magnificent Amrylin. I was completely shocked that she actually got killed. 

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Guest DRAGON REBORN

i disagree,  i thought egwen's character was handled very well.  i think she was one of the best to kill off.  you can't kill the top 3. can't kill avienda.  I believe it was between egwene or elayne .  egwene's devotion to the tower was an awesome story line.   her sacrife was a lot better than if it would of been elayne.

p.s. i hope they continue the stories.  life after tarmon gaiden,  demandreds rise to power,  rand's life after tarmon gaiden.

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i

p.s. i hope they continue the stories.  life after tarmon gaiden,  demandreds rise to power,  rand's life after tarmon gaiden.

The only thing still to come is "River of Souls" which details some of Dem's activites in Shara. The Outriggers/Prequels have been ruled out by Team Jordan.

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Guest Vern Crisler

Lots of good discussion of Egwene.  I agree with those who think her death was a dumb move.  She had started out with the three boys, and had grown up through Aes Sedai training, Aiel training, and finally taking over as Amyrlin Seat.  She was a major character.  She deserved better than to die fighting Taim, a relatively uninteresting character who should have been dispatched by another minor character, say Logain.  Reading about Egwene's journey was one of the best themes of Wheel of Time, but you know, when a TV series goes on for too long, the writers inevitably kill off a main character in the hopes of rekindling interest in the series.  I think that's what happened with WOT, which should have ended several books ago.  And so, because it continued on for too long, the result was the death of Egwene and some other strong characters who deserved something more than what they got in WOT.  Remember, all four hobbits came back alive in LOTR.  Can you imagine if Sam or one of the others had been killed off for no good reason?  There would have been a riot.

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Lots of good discussion of Egwene.  I agree with those who think her death was a dumb move.  She had started out with the three boys, and had grown up through Aes Sedai training, Aiel training, and finally taking over as Amyrlin Seat.  She was a major character.  She deserved better than to die fighting Taim, a relatively uninteresting character who should have been dispatched by another minor character, say Logain.  Reading about Egwene's journey was one of the best themes of Wheel of Time, but you know, when a TV series goes on for too long, the writers inevitably kill off a main character in the hopes of rekindling interest in the series.  I think that's what happened with WOT, which should have ended several books ago.  And so, because it continued on for too long, the result was the death of Egwene and some other strong characters who deserved something more than what they got in WOT.  Remember, all four hobbits came back alive in LOTR.  Can you imagine if Sam or one of the others had been killed off for no good reason?  There would have been a riot.

Firstly, Egwene was killed at the end, not mid series. This was not a ratings grab.

 

And she didn't die killing Taim. She died to heal the Pattern and to close a gap in it through which the Dark One could have escaped. Plus, her conversation with Rand was the catalyst for him to be able to shake free of the Dark One and achieve what he had to. Not to mention that her actions directly led to Logain breaking the Seals at the exact right moment.

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