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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

Saddest moments in the book

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I am baffled many of you think that the death of a horse was the saddest death in the book , no offense i like animals but really ? Suian and Gareth was for me the most painful , their death was´t splendid and fulfilling ( plot wise )  like Egwenes ( i really like that scene , when she becomes light incarnated) or ( emotion wise ) like Gawyn ( yes i don´t like him ( even if I felt a bit sad at his well meant stupidity )) no Suian just died without any significance at all .

 

The death of Bella was more symbolic and had a lot more meaning behind it than just a simple horse from the books dying.  That's the only reason it was an emotional moment.  In a way, it represented the real death of Egwene.

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Olver's broken-ness throughout the book hit me pretty hard, as well as the scenes with him running from Trollocs.  I loved how that resolved in the scene with Noal, but it did bring tears to my eyes.

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 I would say Egwene's death was the most emotional for me. I found a number of other death scenes surprisingly unmoving for various reasons. Some characters (like Siuan) had too little to do in the book and had no definable story arcs.  They showed up briefly and died. That diminished the impact of their deaths on me as a reader in a big way. Another problem was that most of them died in somebody else's POV's with little  to no psychological  buildup. That was true of Birgitte's death among others. That was supposed to be the horrific GRRM moment BS warned us about. But it came on too quickly and unexpectedly and lacked an emotional punch as a result. Compare this to Masema's death in tGS for example. WAY WAY more emotional  and better written than Birgitte's death. And that's too bad. Should have definitely been  the other way around.

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When Egwene died. She was one of my favorite characters. It was a fitting death, a worthy death, but I really wanted her the remain alive and bring sanity and stability to the Tower.

 

One of my favorite moments was when she dies, she's probably one of the characters I hate in my entire collection of books. I thought Rands pyre being lit was sad.

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Ya if it was a Birgitte PoV where we were able to clearly see her distress and worry over Elayne, her desperate desire to find herself again and whatever else, it would have been much more powerful. As it was, the mere threat of Mellar cutting Elayne's babies out overrode pretty much everything else until Birgitte came back.

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Olver being clawed at by the Trollocs really got me. I was convinced he'd be eaten!

 

Egwene dying. Egwene realising that Gawn had died - trying to find him, then he's gone.

 

I found it sad with Rand walking off at the end.

 

Sad to see Birgitte go but then I remember thinking "she'll go back to the Horn!!" so was happy again.

 

I'm about to start reading it again...

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I actually think Egwene's death was probably the shining moment of her character in some ways. It was a bit like what you would expect to see the day Manetheren fell, thats how I saw it at least.

 

Lots of emotional stuff, to be honest Gawyn and Galad's last discussion was a real pro for Gawyn. He hated Rand yet still told Galad that he would still have a brother left alive. I still wish they had had a few moments to actually talk, Galad doesnt really show much emotion about it other than "oh light.."

 

So many moments I was convinced people were dead though. Mat, Galad, Lan even Faile. I think I will need a re-read in a few days once I finish digesting the book a bit more.

 

I dunno. I think it even said in AMOL that he no longer bore any ill will for Rand. I mean, why should he? He knows Rand didn't kill his mother. His sister is having Rand's kids. He was jealous of Rand but I think he got over that.

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Saddest moments for me:

 

- Logain’s torture and the fact that he was strong-willed enough to take it for weeks without turning. Likewise, the way he was afterward, until his epiphany with the mother and child he was rescuing, made me sad.

- Evin and the others from Logain’s followers that got turned. It made me cry.

- Lan making a suicide run at Demandred. He didn't intend to win, he went there to kill him. I knew he'd survive thanks to spoilers but it still made me cry...his determination was unwavering. He was a man among boys. So was Tam, for that matter, which leads me to...

- Tam taking out Trollocs so Lan could get through.

- Master Luhann's lecture to Perrin. I thought he had gotten there already, but apparently someone needed to tell him.

- Tam setting his son's dead body on fire.

- Bela’s death. I cried a lot.

- Noal showing up to save Olver. I felt that kid’s pain and fear and it was heart wrenching.

- Rand suffering more, even though what he suffered at the DO’s hands was what he was supposed to do. I was just sick of seeing him hurt.

- Nynaeve being so forlorn over Rand and Egwene’s deaths. She’s the only one with the heart to shed tears over the dead. I cried with her, and when Perrin held her to comfort her, that made me cry more. He’s really one of my favorites now.

- When Perrin finally found Faile.

- When Rand rode away, alone, still bonded to those damned bitches. And yes, Min’s on my list now as well.

- Oddly, Moridin. He’s the only one who didn’t join the Shadow for power (Lanfear), revenge and ego (Demandred), or for some other reason like that. He joined because he truly believed that the only way to end suffering and to stop being used was to end it all. He was more loyal to the DO than any of the others and he learned that the DO intended to screw him in the end. I always thought there was something (other than philosophy) that caused him to think as he did, and would’ve liked to have seen it.

 

 

Moments that were supposed to be sad that either made me laugh, clap, or roll my eyes:

- Gawyn charging after Demandred. I knew he had no chance against him and knew he was going to have his ass handed to him, so I danced with glee to get to see it. He has always been a douche and will probably be reborn a douche.

- Egwene’s death.

- Siuan and Gareth. Siuan thought they avoided Min’s viewing and they didn’t. After Gareth’s macho BS about the bond (“I’m so strong! I wish I had done this long ago!”), there was something karmic about seeing the snapped bond cause his stupid death.

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Moments that were supposed to be sad that either made me laugh, clap, or roll my eyes:

- Gawyn charging after Demandred. I knew he had no chance against him and knew he was going to have his ass handed to him, so I danced with glee to get to see it. He has always been a douche and will probably be reborn a douche.

- Egwene’s death.

- Siuan and Gareth. Siuan thought they avoided Min’s viewing and they didn’t. After Gareth’s macho BS about the bond (“I’m so strong! I wish I had done this long ago!”), there was something karmic about seeing the snapped bond cause his stupid death.

 

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one to chortle a bit at Gawyn's death.  I've long thought him an idiot, and the way he died was... expected.

 

It was in striking counterpoint to the way everyone else fell in the last battle.  I *liked* that so many fell to inglorious death, barely noticed in the numbing, ever growing list of the fallen.  It was realistic.  It was sad.  Pretty much everyone there was giving it their all, and virtually all of them fell to indiscriminate bursts of the power or Trolloc blade.

 

Gawyn stood out in that he wanted the heroic, meaningful death, and it was sad that, alone among so many, his end was fruitless, pointless, and just his own damn fault.

 

 

I didn't think of it till afterwards, but Siuan's death was rather poetic.  Back when she first met Mat, she asked him if he would be there to save people in the burning building.  How does she die?  Running into a burning building trying to save Mat, despite knowing it might cost her and her love their lives.  Tai'shar Tear.

 

 

Olver's buildup was great too.  Even in the Blight he's still thinking about what a Gawyn-like hero he's going to be, hunting down the Shaido who killed his parents.  Then he sees what battle really is, but still tries to get to Mat.  A terrified boy crying in a hole and desperately blowing a Horn was one of the great heart-wrenching images of the series.

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Ooh, good call on Suian.

 

I thought Olver's earlier POV was a bit "off," and this one started out like that, but man was it great down the stretch.

 

Logain's entire arc this book was very emotional.

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When the Dark One lost...

 

heh, nah. Honestly I found Birgitte's horror over her lost memories utterly heartbreaking.

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Surprisingly Gawyn (who I can't stand, such an idiot whiner), his speech to Galad before dying, very touching. Of course, he death was completey expected and desired for.  :rolleyes:

 

Rhuarc, to get wasted like that! Perrin should have killed the Ugly One when he had the chance. 

 

When Egwene died, I felt absolutely nothing.  I thought I would be happy.  Oh well, we can't get everything we wish for. 

 

Brigitte's death, also very expected, no impact. Meh.  She came back...now if she stayed dead, different story.

 

 

 

 

In the entire series, when Hopper died was the worst. Damn Slayer! Damn Perrin!

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In the entire series, when Hopper died was the worst. Damn Slayer! Damn Perrin!

 

This, and Verin's death are two saddest moment in WoT for me.

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Moments that were supposed to be sad that either made me laugh, clap, or roll my eyes:

- Gawyn charging after Demandred. I knew he had no chance against him and knew he was going to have his ass handed to him, so I danced with glee to get to see it. He has always been a douche and will probably be reborn a douche.

- Egwene’s death.

- Siuan and Gareth. Siuan thought they avoided Min’s viewing and they didn’t. After Gareth’s macho BS about the bond (“I’m so strong! I wish I had done this long ago!”), there was something karmic about seeing the snapped bond cause his stupid death.

 

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one to chortle a bit at Gawyn's death.  I've long thought him an idiot, and the way he died was... expected.

 

It was in striking counterpoint to the way everyone else fell in the last battle.  I *liked* that so many fell to inglorious death, barely noticed in the numbing, ever growing list of the fallen.  It was realistic.  It was sad.  Pretty much everyone there was giving it their all, and virtually all of them fell to indiscriminate bursts of the power or Trolloc blade.

 

Gawyn stood out in that he wanted the heroic, meaningful death, and it was sad that, alone among so many, his end was fruitless, pointless, and just his own damn fault.

 

 

I didn't think of it till afterwards, but Siuan's death was rather poetic.  Back when she first met Mat, she asked him if he would be there to save people in the burning building.  How does she die?  Running into a burning building trying to save Mat, despite knowing it might cost her and her love their lives.  Tai'shar Tear.

 

 

Olver's buildup was great too.  Even in the Blight he's still thinking about what a Gawyn-like hero he's going to be, hunting down the Shaido who killed his parents.  Then he sees what battle really is, but still tries to get to Mat.  A terrified boy crying in a hole and desperately blowing a Horn was one of the great heart-wrenching images of the series.

 

Totaly agree about Gawyn. His entire POV should be filed under WTF. Using the rings, not telling Egwene. Riding off alone to be a hero. WTF Gawyn,none of that was even necassary. I even said that out loud "WTF". My poor husband, I kept talking out loud to the book the whole way through.

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Bela.  It was sad because Bela has been through so much, and has been there from the absolute beginning.

 

I was horrified at Mellar going to cut the babes out.  I mean, in the entire series this was the one thing that really, really upset me.  That entire scene was extremely upsetting.

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Rand being collared and torturing Min didn't upset you? There were definitely other upsetting moments, like Alanna bonding Rand, that made me walk away and cool down. The babies thing was perhaps a different magnitude of disgusting but not the only upsetting thing in the series.

 

Bela did die protecting Faile didn't she? That's pretty heroic act, although a questionable person to die for.

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Rand being collared and torturing Min didn't upset you? There were definitely other upsetting moments, like Alanna bonding Rand, that made me walk away and cool down. The babies thing was perhaps a different magnitude of disgusting but not the only upsetting thing in the series. Bela did die protecting Faile didn't she? That's pretty heroic act, although a questionable person to die for.

I thought we were just talking about what was upsetting in this book, not the whole series? If we include the rest of the series, then the list grows exponentially. There were a lot of sad moments, including Rand's being tortured constantly, Lan with a broken bond, Alanna soul-raping Rand, etc. Hell, I threw my book across the room when the AS had Rand in a box, only taking him out to beat him mercilessly. That sickened me.

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Egwene's death was definitely bittersweet. Her anguish at losing Gawyn (who was an idiot) was palpable. But the way she channeled that rage (no pun intended)... oh man. The way she discovered the inverse of balefire, and the way it HEALED, and the comparison to the Flame of Tar Valon all made me start crying. Egwene had definitely grown on me ever since her passive resistance in KoD, and she transformed into a force to be reckoned with. 

 

Just something about this book FELT different. Not different in the way Sanderson's books feel different, but just the finality and urgency and REALITY that some of the people you love might die, and ALL of the people you love now must transform into something that can kill. Best encapsulation: Loial's first POV that starts out with him musing about how he wished he were hasty like a human, and then he slowly lets himself become ENRAGED at the Shadow for what it had done to the world. And the war-song was SPECTACULAR. 

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Gawyn death was hard, as well as Egwenes's death. Gawyn never got to make a huge name for himself, only to stand behind Egwene and die in her shadow. That and Tam lighting Rand's pyre.

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Egwenes dying; never been a big fan of her but it still got to me

 

Caemlyns fall; possibly the second most populous city in Randland falling to the Shadow. Added into this is Talmanes almost death

 

Rhuarc dying, killed by someone who is basically his niece

 

The number of people who die. Not just characters but the sheer scale; 1/2 of Elaynes army, 2/3 of Lans, 9/10 of those at Shaidar Logoth

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Definitely Egwene's death. I didn't like her that much in the first couple of books, but I warmed up to her around LoC or ACoS and then her little war in the White Tower in tGS made her one of my 2-3 favorite characters. She was one of the few characters that I thought to myself "If this person survives, I'll be extremely happy." It's sad to me, for her to only be maybe 19 or so during the Last Battle and to have possibly 200-300 years of being maybe the greatest Amyrlin Seat ever taken from her. At least her death was meaningful. Ugh, and now when I do rereads, knowing she dies is going to suck so much. The only problem I had with her going into the book is that fool Gawyn, who doesn't do a single thing in this series other then save Egwene in ToM. The only reason his death upset me was because it made me think that Egwene was probably going to die as well.

Edited by Galium

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when rand finds out egwene is dead :(

 

when rand is ready to give in and doesnt want to let go.

 

hurin's death

 

birgritte losing her memories

 

and rhuarc

 

i seriously thought lan was dead when he sheathes the sword to kill Demandred

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