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Jason Denzel

Saddest moments in the book

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Siuan saved Matt from a burning building, much like her uncle.

 I don't remember the scene very well, but have a vague memory that her intention was to save Mat from the burning tent, but in reality he was already safe, or got out without her help, or something like that?

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I literally gasped aloud when I thought Lan died and when Birgitte got beheaded.  I suppose Egwene's death makes it a three way tie.  Bela was sad too. 

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Gawyn dying really got me.  Also when Rand and the Dark One are facing off and Rand just casually finds out about all the different people dying in the last battle, letting the reader know about all these deaths, got to me to.  Not in a sad/crying sort of way, but a sad/depressed kind of way.  It reminded me too much of the real world where people die all the time and not even a sentence is mentioned.  The gods make war, while thousands of men, with dreams, hopes, families and stories of their own, vanish like so much dust in the wind.

Edited by Plato

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There was nothing really sad or heart breaking in this book. Felt like rush job, a meal eaten in haste while talking.

I would have been sad if Min or Olver died. All those pages and the way Siuan and Bryne died....

oh wait can anyone even remember that? Did it do them justice or did it feel rushed a like shopping list before

the world cup final?

 

No need to reply, just think about it for a moment.

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When Siuan and the Garreth died.

When Graendel took over Rhuarc, I knew he was a dead no matter what then.

When Egwene died

When Galad lost his arm

When I though Faile a character that had grown on me over time was dead for sure.

When Bela died.

When Birgitte says she's being reborn to Elayne.

When Rand's body burned.

When Rand leaves into the sunset.

When I realized that there was no actual funeral written for Egwene my favorite character in all the books, seriously that really made me dissapointed that Sanderson couldn't have inserted that even.

Edited by Raven Servant

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Egwene's flame of tarvalon was as spectacular as it was heartbreaking. But for me, it was Egwene's death being the final piece in the 'blacksmiths puzzle' that truly destroyed me; then i not only mourned Egwene, but RJ as well. Words fail me when it comes to expressing my love for RJ, and the beautiful tale he told. R.I.P Jim.

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Tam lighting Rand's funeral pyre. When he spoke I broke down and sobbed my heart out. Because not only were the words perfect for the moment, it was then you knew the series was done. It still gets me even thinking about Tam's words. Then I would say Noal rescuing Olver.

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Maaaaan. I had to create an account just to say THIS. =)

 

Didnt Gawyn actually get to be a hero for a while? Really! Even if he didnt seem to learn anything most of the time, not even from

his own sacrifice.

The pattern made sure they got trapped among the sharans(!). And if it hadnt been for Gawyn slipping that ring on his finger to

scout the area and later kill over a dozen guards would Egwene have survived to fight the Last Battle? He had a way out and she

couldnt risk channeling. So he secretly gave his life to save hers. Right there he became the hero that he so desperatly wanted to

be. He kept the rings for all the wrong reasons, his motivations were all wrong aswell but  i think he knew that to some extent

because he did end up choosing to use them at the ONLY moment that could have been considered the right one.

 

Later.....

Gawyn was doomed and he knew it, he was dying. Thats the primary reason he went after Demandred, as the only one (as far as

he could see) who had any real edge on the guy.

 

But ofcourse in the end, he was full of himself; He should have told Egwene, and she SHOULD have released their bond. ;)

 

I dont know, i cant hate him, that much i know. Maybe im wrong, Ive only read the books once and its been a long time for me

between KoD and these last three books.

 

On the topic.

Almost EVERY death made me tear up and want to cry. The last third of AMoL took me ages to read through compared to

the previous two and two thirds.

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#1 Seve and Jaril.

 

Rest in no particular order:

 

Rand's attempt at resurrecting the dead girl.

 

Olver's trying to escape from the trollocs.

 

Rhurc getting whacked by Aviendha. Friendly fire is just cold way to die.

 

Lan. Living took the sting out of it.

 

Birgitte's death would have had more bite if I didn't instantly envision her coming back by blowing the horn.

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The reas

 

When Egwene died. She was one of my favorite characters.

One of my favorite moments was when she dies, she's probably one of the characters I hate in my entire collection of books.

 

wut?

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The reason Bela's death was so sad is because she didn't know what she was fighting for, and did it anyway.  Animal or not, she was fearless, and faithful.  And she died not even knowing that she had quite literally saved the world.  Bela's death broke my heart.

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Hmm Saddest Parts...

 

Mellar C-Section plans

Thinking Faile was dead (unlike everyine else I liked her!)

Siuan's death

The funeral

When the trolloc's were clawing at Olver in he rock.

When the Sharans first appeared! - Less of a sad moment and more of a FLAMING PIG KISSING BLOODY STUPID WHAT IN THE NAME OF THE LIGHT IS GOING ON!!!!

When Rand woke up- refer to previous comment

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Going back to Baerlon in TEotW, Min's viewing about the gang's importance included the 3 ta'veren, Egwene, Moiraine, Lan, Thom, and Nynaeve. In the end, all survived except Egwene. And she had a monstrous ride with multiple imprisonments, severe torture, and a mountain of responsibility she shouldered with awesome courage and dedication. Her death stings the most, is the saddest, and one of the most awesome moments in AMoL. Pushing Leilwin through the gateway with her last instructions regarding the seals ... She truly embraced death and was a true Aiel heart. 

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Rhuarc dying as a pawn of compulsion

 

Tam lighting his sons pyre, the greatest hero randland has ever known, while not knowing Rand was watching.

 

The death of Verin after her atonement.

 

Gawyn's death. The man was barely out of childhood. He was cocky and confident throughout the series, as any young man raised and trained as he was would be. In the end, he was selfless, if not a little foolish, and that redeemed him to me. People can act like he was an idiot for trying, but a good soldier doesn't run from danger when other soldiers are dying, even at the expense of his own life. Maybe being a combat vet gives me more respect for him than most others here have. I've never seen a soldier run when his friends and squadmates are still fighting. But I have, and have seen others, charge directly at the danger, knowing our own lives would be a small price to pay for the safety of our brothers in arms, no matter how scared we were. So I do understand what all of the civilians here call foolishness is not that all, its heroism. I would not expect most here to understand that, though.

 

Birgitte losing her memories.

 

Siuane and Brynes death.

 

Perrins desperation while looking for Faile.

 

The unfounded criticism in BS's writing. As a grad student and aspiring fantasy writer, I don't think many understand the enormous undertaking he had on his hands. I also laugh when people think RJ could have finished the series in one book. If RJ had lived, we would be reading till book 16+. He was not exactly known for moving the plot ahead at great speeds, something Brandon had no choice but to do, all the while working on his own fantstic work of fantasy, Tha Way of Kings.

 

But the most heart breaking part of all was the end of the series. Never again will I be impatiently waiting for a new WoT book. After 22 years, a large part of my life, it is all over. The books that took me to another world as a child. The books that took my mind off of the horrors of what was going on around me in Afghanitan and Iraq, if even for a half an hour, here and there. The characters i've loved for so long, and most of all, the end of Robert Jordans legacy. He is missed terribly, and forever has my thanks for everything the series has done for me over the years.

Edited by Apoc81

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Going back to Baerlon in TEotW, Min's viewing about the gang's importance included the 3 ta'veren, Egwene, Moiraine, Lan, Thom, and Nynaeve. In the end, all survived except Egwene. And she had a monstrous ride with multiple imprisonments, severe torture, and a mountain of responsibility she shouldered with awesome courage and dedication. Her death stings the most, is the saddest, and one of the most awesome moments in AMoL. Pushing Leilwin through the gateway with her last instructions regarding the seals ... She truly embraced death and was a true Aiel heart. 

 

I can agree with this, though her death did not at all shock me. If anything, I think it was needed to wake up the White Tower and push them into actually thinking, instead of acting on ancient rules that none understand.

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The unfounded criticism in BS's writing. As a grad student and aspiring fantasy writer, I don't think many understand the enormous undertaking he had on his hands.

Many here and at Theoryland know exactly the undertaking he had on his hands. Additionally there are those with connections to Team Jordan who had behind the scenes glimpses of the process. Between that and the Q&A database it is pretty clear.

 

Regardless care to go to the quality thread and tell us why you disagree with the "unfounded" criticism? There are a fair number of lit majors around these parts who were detailed in their posts and highlighted some very real issues. It would be helpful for you to address specific critiques instead of just waving a blanket dismissal.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78001-quality-discussion-thread/

 

I also laugh when people think RJ could have finished the series in one book. If RJ had lived, we would be reading till book 16+. He was not exactly known for moving the plot ahead at great speeds, something Brandon had no choice but to do, all the while working on his own fantstic work of fantasy, Tha Way of Kings.

Actually RJ could be very economical when needed. Brandon on the other hand, in a portion of the story arc in which space should have been at a premium took a very long time to convey information with his "tell don't show" style and seeming inability to use literary devices like ellipsis to advance the action. Add to that all the bloat and filler which crept into these last three books and it's clear space was not used wisely.

 

It is also ludicrous to say the series would have stretched to 16+ with RJ at the helm. There is nothing to support that claim and it is far more laughable than RJ stating he would finish in one. After seeing these last three books(Brandon was not in favor of the split btw) it's clear one book split into two volumes would have been more than sufficient.

 

Edited by Suttree

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He was not exactly known for moving the plot ahead at great speeds, something Brandon had no choice but to do, all the while working on his own fantstic work of fantasy, Tha Way of Kings.

For the majority of the series RJ moved the plot forward pretty quickly.  The first 6 books (especially the first 4) are pretty fast paced with a lot of plot movement in numerous arcs happening simultaneously.  Yes, the series slowed down a bit around books 9-11, but I found CoT to be the only book in the series that really felt like it was dragging its heals.

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He was not exactly known for moving the plot ahead at great speeds, something Brandon had no choice but to do, all the while working on his own fantstic work of fantasy, Tha Way of Kings.

For the majority of the series RJ moved the plot forward pretty quickly. The first 6 books (especially the first 4) are pretty fast paced with a lot of plot movement in numerous arcs happening simultaneously. Yes, the series slowed down a bit around books 9-11, but I found CoT to be the only book in the series that really felt like it was dragging its heals.

Indeed. To add to this a good deal of that speed up was simply where we were in the story arc. Any aspiring fantasy author should inderstand that. it is pretty ridiculous to compare the conclusion of a series to a point where things are still being set up and expanding. It's apples and oranges. Regardless after the WH-CoT slow down RJ had already increased the pace with KoD and had things pointed towards the finish.

 

We have no idea how skilled Brandon will be with pace in a large series until we see how he handles the mid-late portion of his own Stormlight Archive. I mean if you had judged things as of TFoH or so pace would have been rated as a huge strength for RJ.

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While there's an argument to be made for story structure, other authors definately manage better pacing in long series.

 

Not many, I grant, and the few that come to mind (Eriksson, Feist) have their own issues... but pacing can be better in long series than RJ did.

 

Though how this discussion relates to sad moments, I don't know. So I come to my newest choice for saddest moment: Rand's recognising the empty eyes of Elayne, knowing that ending the DO would kill her (in a metaphorical sense). I think he chose poorly as a result, but sad it was: Rand aiming to fix the world, only to realize the true price was not his life alone.

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 For me, saddest moments are within Agelmar - Lan - Plot.

 

 It is in the first book, Agelmar told us the tragedy of the uncrowned king und his lost nation. That's where we learn much of what it means being a borderlander. Fight against shadow for total life. The Wheel of Time then turns and turns and many many books later, Agelmar ist the general under al'Lan. Their army ist the total manpower of all borderlanders. It is Tarmon'Gaidon. The damn saddest moment? Agelmar notices, what he did. Forced by Lan he has a clear moment of realization. I think, only Lews Therin has had a more powerful moment of: "What for hell have I done?" Proud warrior and leader Agelmar seems really broken here... (I could only give quotation in my language; I think it does not help here).

 

 

Turning Toveine Gazal to shadow is on second rank. Maybe sad is the wrong term; I wanted to stop what was going on as I read she was brought in that hellish rooms. I knew at once, that she has no chance. She was'nt in Androl-Plot before, she always seemed to be stubborn and arrogant, so she was the perfect one to sacrifice here, while male chanellers Emarin and Logain resisted and Pevara was drugged. And of course shadow had enough male channelers here to turn her without problems.

I don't liked this. It was so completely unfair. Toveine-Plot in WoT is a tragedy itself.

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