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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

Saddest moments in the book

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I'll second Perrin searching for Faile.  I never really sympathized with him during the whole Shaido arc (he's just so boring and unlikable...and it drags forever.)  His search for Faile and all out despair before he finds her in this book were really heart wrenching for me though.  Especially since I thought there was a chance she was really dead.

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Siuan and Gareth dying were sad for me. I remember from TFoH that Gareth said he was the last of his line, no family or children. Hoped they would live after The Last Battle.

 

Also, Rhuarc. Hate what Graendal did to him.

 

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1) Egwene's death: I feel that, of all the main characters, she's never had anything handed to her, has always had to undergo trials and tribulations to learn new skills, and just when it felt she deserved a reward she got a noble death. 

2) Olver hiding in the mountain crevice: I like the character and I'm somewhat leaning towards him being Gaidal Cain. But the idea of a child undergoing all that fear while wanting in his heart to be big enough to accomplish heroic feats was wrenching. And I really liked how B.Sanderson wove Faile's part into his story - she got some more noble character development in that she didn't even think to blow it herself and was convinced she would die. Great mini-arc. Plus this is a two-for because Bela died in that chapter, too, and I liked Olver's thoughts about her.

3) Deepe's death: He wasn't even a secondary character, but he was one of the only channelers we've seen on-screen suffering from traumatic injury. His death was pretty sad because he showed himself to be utterly loyal to the Light, even when he was completely overmatched and knew it. Besides, I'm convinced that Emarine, one of the homosexual Ashaman (p.704) had a secret crush on him considering his reaction to Deepe's death which adds a romantic element that makes the story even better for me.

4) Siuan's death: This was actually foreshadowed before. After she, Min and Leane escape the White Tower, Min tells her a Viewing and Siuan says that it does no good worrying about them since they'll come true, anyway. She said something similar when she died in AMoL: she essentially accepted the Will of the Pattern and wasn't afraid to do what she felt needed to be done.

5) Rhuarch's Compulsion then death: He's one of the characters that has been around so long that he feels like a part of the secondary cast. His Compulsion and confrontation with Aviendha were sad mainly because I think this affected the readers just as much as it did Aviendha.

*Honorable mention - Alanna: It was so off-handed and she must have gone through a lot of torture while she was there. Sad way to go considering her heroic actions during the battle at Emond's Field and that she proved her loyalty to Rand by becoming a target and staying alive just long enough to release the Bond.

Edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman

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Saddest moment for me was seeing Cadsuane, not only survive, but succeed Egwene as Amyrlin.

 

Despite her lofty status as a "legend", the woman was totally useless when the heat was finally turned on. She couldn't even defeat Graendal with Amys and Aviendha's aid. Had it not been for the courage of the latter, I'm sure Graendal would have had the old hag bending knee to her –or worse– in no time. Alas, no such luck.

 

We're talking about a character here that not even the Dragon Reborn cared about, as he made her know all too well during their last conversation. And that's taking into consideration that Rand was very compassionate to all of the people who followed him. IMO, it should've been Moiraine who became the next Amyrlin, w/o second thought.

 

Bwahaha. Yeah, I do think she'd make an okay Amyrlin because she wasn't much for tradition, anyway, but still - she underperformed at Thakan'dar, and the whole mutual nod with her and Amys seemed wasted. 

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The saddest moment for me was when Hopper died.  Both in the real world and again to end his soaring soul.  Yeah, Egg died too, but at least she will be reborn.  Alas Hopper!  In case the point was missed, I love dogs and cry a bit inside whenever a tv show or movie decides to kill one.

 

Did RJ ever confirm if souls killed in T'A'R were dead forever or is that from one of the characters. He had confirmed that balefired souls did get Reborn and that we were getting a lot of incomplete knowledge from the mortal characters so I would imagine the same applies to Hopper's death.

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4) Siuan's death: This was actually foreshadowed before. After she, Min

and Leane escape the White Tower, Min tells her a Viewing and Siuan says

that it does no good worrying about them since they'll come true,

anyway. She said something similar when she died in AMoL: she

essentially accepted the Will of the Pattern and wasn't afraid to do

what she felt needed to be done.

Part of what made Siuan's death so sad for me was because she was the kind of woman to go 'the victory of the Light/Rand/Egwene/etc. are more important than my life' and to go through with sacrificing herself knowing the consequences.  However, her death didn't really achieve anything.  As far as I recall she didn't actually help or save anyone, which just makes it feel like she foolishly wasted her life by disregarding Min's viewing (if she'd stayed with Gareth she would have lived), rather than nobly sacrificing hersef for the greater good.

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4) Siuan's death: This was actually foreshadowed before. After she, Min

and Leane escape the White Tower, Min tells her a Viewing and Siuan says

that it does no good worrying about them since they'll come true,

anyway. She said something similar when she died in AMoL: she

essentially accepted the Will of the Pattern and wasn't afraid to do

what she felt needed to be done.

Part of what made Siuan's death so sad for me was because she was the kind of woman to go 'the victory of the Light/Rand/Egwene/etc. are more important than my life' and to go through with sacrificing herself knowing the consequences.  However, her death didn't really achieve anything.  As far as I recall she didn't actually help or save anyone, which just makes it feel like she foolishly wasted her life by disregarding Min's viewing (if she'd stayed with Gareth she would have lived), rather than nobly sacrificing hersef for the greater good.

 

She used Air to lift and wrap up one of the assassins that Mat was struggling with, so she was helping them when the command center was attacked. And she stayed to help even after Min told her that if she didn't go to Bryne, she would die. So she was somewhat in the background but still helped prevent Mat from being killed.

Edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman

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4) Siuan's death: This was actually foreshadowed before. After she, Min

and Leane escape the White Tower, Min tells her a Viewing and Siuan says

that it does no good worrying about them since they'll come true,

anyway. She said something similar when she died in AMoL: she

essentially accepted the Will of the Pattern and wasn't afraid to do

what she felt needed to be done.

Part of what made Siuan's death so sad for me was because she was the kind of woman to go 'the victory of the Light/Rand/Egwene/etc. are more important than my life' and to go through with sacrificing herself knowing the consequences.  However, her death didn't really achieve anything.  As far as I recall she didn't actually help or save anyone, which just makes it feel like she foolishly wasted her life by disregarding Min's viewing (if she'd stayed with Gareth she would have lived), rather than nobly sacrificing hersef for the greater good.

 

I agree. I just knew it was happening, and I was just think to myself as she and Min went into the tent "Fool woman! Damnit Siuan, what are you doing?". If she had died in the initial Shara attack, that would have been much better for me, because when the command tent exploded that came as a total shock for me, and I thought they had all been... 'Romanda-d'. 

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Overall, there were a lot of deaths.  More than I was expecting.  I was thinking it would be mostly "extras" and maybe a couple of b-list characters just to give it some impact, but I was way off!  They took out major players in the series, and some of thing quickly and with very little warning, and not much fan-fair afterwords.  I remember shouting "Holy Cow! NO Stinkin WAY!!" like five or six times!  My wife, who has read the entire series except aMoL (because I called Dibs on reading it first :) had to sit and listen to me make my exclamations.  She wanted to ask me soooo bad, but she knew I wouldn't tell her. lol

 

The saddest moments for me though, in no particular order:

Loial and the Ogier wading into the most gruesome fighting, over and over.  

Gawyn realizing he was going to lose, then losing.  Compounded with his talk with Galad.  Then made even worse when Galad fell to Demondred too.  I was completely shocked.  I couldn't stop reading even though I was furious.

Bela was bad.

Siuan dying.  It was worse because she had finally got things good with Garyth, and when he died, it was just all bad.

Avienda killing Rhuarc was insane.  That guy was the living embodiment of the Aiel.  

Almost forgot.  When the Sharans came pooring out of the massive gateway right into the heart of the AS camp.  That was so out of left field.  I wasn't even thinking of those guys and all of a sudden - BAM!  And they had tons of male and female channelers.  That was bad!

 

There was just so much.  This book was a crazy emotional roller coaster.  

Edited by jbrock76

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Bela dying.

 

 

If anyone other than Rand should have made it, it should have been Bela.  She should have spent her twilight years in open pasture eating apples until she burst because she went through as much as many of the main characters.  It would have been more fitting that Rand rode out of camp on Bela on the final page.

 

That damn horse should have been at least a hero of the horn.

Edited by leafs43

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I’m not a native English speaker, so I apologies for the possible misspellings in following text.

 

The saddest moment, and shocking as well, to me was definitely Egwene’s death, because she became one of my favorite character after she rises to the Amyrlin Seat. I always thought she will survive from the Last Battle and she will become the greatest Amyrlin ever. So it was a huge shock to me, but I’m glad that the death scene was wrote beautiful and I can admit that I cried my eyes out when I read the scene. Even just now thinking the death scene makes me cry and I just have to re-read the death scene over again and again. The entire book was very sad because of all the deaths and I’m a quite sure about that I haven’t ever before cried so much as when I read the AMOL. I finished AMOL yesterday and I’m still a quite emotionally sensitive because to me the book was like a real rollercoaster rode of emotions.

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WHEN RAND DIDN'T DIE. And Bela of course. And Hurin. Loved that guy.

 

 

Yeah, felt bad about Hurin, the guy deserves to be a hero of the horn. Gaul also,the balls on that guy... Wonder if there are any aiel as heros of the hornn...

Edited by MyLord

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There were sad moments, none of them made me tear up at all... except for one, this one I literally creid at, and that was Rand's funeral, I thought he was dead for sure

 

Egwene dying was kinda sad, but I never liked her to begin with, I thought Gawyn's death was more sad considering the effort he put himself through and his sacrifice for his love and how he accomplished absolutely nothing through it all and then dying in his brothers arms

Edited by Sanity's_Theif

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When I thought Lan was going to die. Man I love that guy. 

 

"I’ve only time for one last lesson…

“I have you,” Demandred finally growled, breathing heavily. “Whoever you are, I have you. You cannot win.”

“You didn’t listen to me,” Lan whispered.

One last lesson. The hardest…

Demandred struck, and Lan saw his opening. Lan lunged forward, placing Demandred’s sword point against his own side and ramming himself forward onto it.

“I did not come here to win,” Lan whispered, smiling.“I came here to kill you. Death is lighter than a feather.” Demandred's eyes opened wide, and he tried to pull back. Too late."

 

 

 

Those words brought me back to so many years ago reading the early days when Lan was teaching Rand..It was so fitting and I really thought he had died. 

 

To be honest, i was disappointed when I found that he didn't... it gave that powerful scene almost no meaning.

Edited by teehee

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When I thought Lan was going to die. Man I love that guy. 

 

"I’ve only time for one last lesson…

“I have you,” Demandred finally growled, breathing heavily. “Whoever you are, I have you. You cannot win.”

“You didn’t listen to me,” Lan whispered.

One last lesson. The hardest…

Demandred struck, and Lan saw his opening. Lan lunged forward, placing Demandred’s sword point against his own side and ramming himself forward onto it.

“I did not come here to win,” Lan whispered, smiling.“I came here to kill you. Death is lighter than a feather.” Demandred's eyes opened wide, and he tried to pull back. Too late."

 

 

 

Those words brought me back to so many years ago reading the early days when Lan was teaching Rand..It was so fitting and I really thought he had died. 

 

To be honest, i was disappointed when I found that he didn't... it gave that powerful scene almost no meaning.

Agreed man. Agreed.

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Bela's death, Gawyn dying in his brother's arms. Probably the worst for me was Tam lighting his son's funeral pyre.

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Saddest moments for me were when it sunk in how expensive the Last Battle turned out to be.  

 

In ToM, you read about how Ituralde is somewhat traumatized from battle after battle, and his seasoned confidence starts to slip a little as he says to himself "well, folks, maybe this is the mess we just don't get out of", over and over again.  Well, come AMoL, it's like that for many main characters, and then some actually start dying.

 

Also, the diminished size of the once-massive army by the end, and the corpses being overrun by new vegetation growing at Shayol Ghul - that was harsh.  The idea that these pitched battles, the heroism, and the stench of it all was about to be forgotten was tough to take.

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Egwene dying was a big shocker for me. Same with Siuan and Gareth. Never liked Gawyn, so whatever. It was also sad knowing that right at the end, Rand basically has 6 unborn children, (maybe more if Min was knocked up), that he would never meet. These children would grow up knowing that their father was the dragon, and never have him there. I'm sure they'd understand, but come on, he'd be a wicked father.

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 It was also sad knowing that right at the end, Rand basically has 6 unborn children, (maybe more if Min was knocked up), that he would never meet. These children would grow up knowing that their father was the dragon, and never have him there. I'm sure they'd understand, but come on, he'd be a wicked father.

 Not sure why people think Rand will never see his children?

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 It was also sad knowing that right at the end, Rand basically has 6 unborn children, (maybe more if Min was knocked up), that he would never meet. These children would grow up knowing that their father was the dragon, and never have him there. I'm sure they'd understand, but come on, he'd be a wicked father.

 Not sure why people think Rand will never see his children?

 

Seconded.  The scene with Elayne prior to the LB makes it pretty clear that he is devastated about not being able to see his children grow up because he believes he will die in the LB.

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He might see them, but they cannot know know that he is both their father and the dragon or it jeopardizes the dragon's peace. Either he can pretend to be the father or he can visit with them as a friend

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I think the saddest part of the book for me was Rand's funeral at the end, because so many people who mattered didn't know the truth, though Nynaeve and Cadsuane obviously picked up on it.  I can imagine Tam crying over his dead son, when his son wasn't in fact dead.  Rand not telling Tam the truth felt ... un-Rand to me.  

 

Next saddest for me was Siuan's death.  I liked that character quite a bit and her death just felt totally pointless.  

 

Egwene's death sucked obviously, but here is the thing:

She went out like a hero.  She served a purpose and somebody awesome will take her place. Cadsuane is like an older version of Egwene.  

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4) Siuan's death: This was actually foreshadowed before. After she, Min

and Leane escape the White Tower, Min tells her a Viewing and Siuan says

that it does no good worrying about them since they'll come true,

anyway. She said something similar when she died in AMoL: she

essentially accepted the Will of the Pattern and wasn't afraid to do

what she felt needed to be done.

Part of what made Siuan's death so sad for me was because she was the kind of woman to go 'the victory of the Light/Rand/Egwene/etc. are more important than my life' and to go through with sacrificing herself knowing the consequences.  However, her death didn't really achieve anything.  As far as I recall she didn't actually help or save anyone, which just makes it feel like she foolishly wasted her life by disregarding Min's viewing (if she'd stayed with Gareth she would have lived), rather than nobly sacrificing hersef for the greater good.

 

 

It felt though that her, after being so awesome, dying like that, alongside Perrin's opposite choice in the same place, was the message. The point was that all we can do is our best, and there's no way to know what way it'll end up.

 

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