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Japboix1

Question about Egwene from someone only on book 5

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Hi, I'm new to the whole Wheel of Time series and only started reading it a while back. At the moment I'm on the fifth book and I have a question I want answered without having too much revealed, hence why I don't just search for an older thread.

 

So my question is this. Is Egwene going to continue being so... annoying, for lack of a better term, for the rest of the books?

 

I honestly did like Egwene in the beginning of the series. She was easily in my top 3 characters in the first and second books and I enjoyed reading about her. Her remarks about males as a whole got irritating at times but I could deal with it.

 

But the last few books she's been really against Rand and acting more like the typical image of an Aes Sedai. She's becoming very judgemental and seems to act like she knows better, even when she clearly doesn't (like when she tries to comfort Aviendha, her guesses at why she's upset are often way off target). I just want to know if she's going to continue on this path. I'd like to brace myself for it if she is.

 

I'm trying not to hate, seriously, but I am getting seriously annoyed with Egwene at this point in the series and I'd honestly like to know, without spoilers if possible, whether or not she will continue to develop in this direction. I'm also very aware that there have probably been other threads on stuff like this (there usually are for book series) but looking through them might end up spoiling things for me.

Edited by Japboix1

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Hi Japboix1, and welcome to the wonderful world of WoT!

 

This question is very difficult to answer.  Everyone has different tastes, so what one person calls annoying another calls level-headed.  And without going into spoilers, it's even more difficult.

 

If you feel that Egwene's tendency to look down on others is annoying, I personally feel that it doesn't go away very much as the books progress.  However, I really enjoy Egwene as a character--faults and all--so someone else might give you a different answer.  I'd tell you to brace for more Aes Sedai behavior from her.  Her character grows, but some flaws remain.

 

Hope that helps!

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LOL !!!

 

I'm not laughing at YOU, Japbox1..when you get far enough along to peruse the rest of the forums you may well be shocked at the sheer number of threads saying the exact same thing. I must confess - I am in YOUR boat on this one. I can not STAND Egwene. For all the reasons you mention - and many more.

 

I won't spoil anything for you. I will just say that it is almost universally understood that - at her core - Egwene is just fundamentally unlikable.

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King

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Thanks. Yeah, Mashiara Sedai, I do find her annoying though I agree that not everyone will think so. It's mostly the hyporcisy and her tendency to blame Rand for a lot of things that aren't even his fault (like Aviendha's anger towards him, even if he's the cause of it he didn't do anything to antagonize her, yet Egwene constantly berates him for it). I do like a lot of her personality traits like her desire to learn, and her respect for her teachers, it's just her attitude to Nynaeve and Rand that has been really bothering me. But from your answers I guess I'll just have to brace myself in the future. I simply don't like her overall personality. To each his own I guess.

 

I also don't like the way she constantly blames men for things. I know a lot of women in the series do, but it just seems more pronounced with Egwene since I don't really like her.

 

Thanks for the answer. I'm off to finish the fifth book now XD

Edited by Japboix1

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Egwene is the single most divisive character in the series without a doubt. Some people love her and some hate her. I do find it odd that you would comment on her hypocrisy this early on and say nothing of Nynaeve. Early in the series she is faaaar worse but perhaps it doesn't grate as much because it's played to comedic effect at times.

 

Bottom line for Egwene she comes to have an end goal in mind and let's nothing get in the way of that. She has great respect for her teachers, pushes for evolution/new ways of doing things, is not afraid to admit mistakes and is always looking to grow. She drinks a bit too much of the AS kool aid for my liking as things go along but she continuously works for the greater good and does what she thinks best for the world as it marches towards TG. That said I have a hunch that your feelings will not change on the topic.

Edited by Suttree

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She's not getting any less judgmental. She's still one of my favorite characters. She as several Moments of Awesome coming up, but she doesn't change in the way you'd like her to.

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Just like Suttree said, she is very goal driven. She also strongly believes that Aes Sedai are the greatest most perfect creation on Randland. With those two issues, she head is shoved squarely and deeply where the sun don't shine. She is just too black and white.

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I think the reason Nynaeve isn't as annoying in her sexism is, in addition to the comedic value, she possesses atleast some humility.  Egwene, unless actually brought to heel like the Wise Ones did in the middle books, is so certain of her infallibility that you just want to slap her.  Nynaeve can be irritating, but deep down she is a truly compassionate person.  The major reason Egwene is more likable in the first two books is because there are fewer chapters from her POV, when you see what's actually going on inside her head, you like her less; whereas with Nyn you see her being as hard on herself as she is on anyone else.

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 She also strongly believes that Aes Sedai are the greatest most perfect creation on Randland.

As I mentioned above she puts too much faith in the WT as an institution for my liking. Nevertheless she also clearly sees AS faults, calls them out on being fools and vows they must change their ways or become obsolete. She knows they are far from perfect.

 

@Toromoe

 

Egwene has show compassion throughout the series. Just to use one example look at how she was the only friend to stick by Rand when it came out he could channel. She also is as hard on herself as anyone in the series and most assuredly knows she isn't infallible.

 

 

 

The AS attempted to make her a puppet and she often can not any sign of weakness due to her position. Nevertheless she admits her mistakes readily and is introspective. It is one of the ways she is constantly able to grow.

 

TGS

Had she fallen into the same trap as Siuan? It was a danger. She had been trained by Siuan, after all. If Egwene had explained in more detail how well her work in the White Tower was going, would the others have stayed their hands?

 

It was a difficult line to walk. There were many secrets that an Amyrlin had to hold. To be transparent would be to lose her edge of authority. But with Siuan herself, Egwene should have been more forthcoming. The woman was too accustomed to taking action on her own. The way she had kept that dream ter'angreal against the Hall's knowledge and wishes was an indication of that. Yet Egwene had approved of that, unconsciously encouraging Siuan to defy authority.

 

Yes, Egwene had made mistakes. She could not lay all the blame on Siuan, Bryne and Gawyn. She had likely made other mistakes as well; she would need to look at her own actions in more detail later.

 

 

 

Edited by Suttree

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I think that if you don't like her at this point (and I don't either) that you are unlikely to have the opinion changed as the series progresses. So I'd brace for that.

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Nynaeve rules because she just has sooo much...HEART///She wears it on her sleeve.

 

And while it is sorta percieved that BIRGITTE is the ''female Mat'' - it really, imo, is - in terms of NARRATIVE humor - Nynaeve.

 

The Somara chapters in FOH still crack me UP!!!

 

 

Fish

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Japboix, I think the replies to this thread alone tell you the entire story. We have a standing rule that Egwene can only be discussed in this manner in a dedicated thread, because arguments about her have derailed many a thread (which tells you all you need to know, that there are passionate advocates for both opinions).

 

So let me put my own cards on the table, for whatever it's worth. I didn't love Egwene in TEotW, but those were minor annoyances. See, I'm a Rand-fan, and I didn't like how she picked on him (I guess I was at an age that I didn't like how girls can usually pick on boys, either). However, she scored major points with me at the end of TEotW and throughout TGH, mostly for how she handled Rand, and also the nightmare she went through. That all went away from TDR through LoC/ACoS, though, for exactly the reasons you point out. She seemed so full of herself, and it just wasn't fair! On top of everything else Rand has to suffer, why poke him with needles? I don't want to ruin your own impressions of the series, so I won't say any more right now, except to completely reject Mark's conclusion. I discovered her character again around CoT-KoD, and I'm firm in my belief that you shouldn't give up hope of ever liking it until after you see how you're affected by KoD. For some, it makes no difference in an already solid assessment of her; for others, like me, it just turns the whole picture on its head.

 

PS

Since we don't currently have an active thread about Egwene, feel free to use this one to your hearts' content, everyone. Just do Japboix a favor and don't mention any spoilers, and don't let it devolve into a shouting match either, okay?

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Hi, I'm new to the whole Wheel of Time series and only started reading it a while back. At the moment I'm on the fifth book and I have a question I want answered without having too much revealed, hence why I don't just search for an older thread.

 

So my question is this. Is Egwene going to continue being so... annoying, for lack of a better term, for the rest of the books?

 

I honestly did like Egwene in the beginning of the series. She was easily in my top 3 characters in the first and second books and I enjoyed reading about her. Her remarks about males as a whole got irritating at times but I could deal with it.

 

But the last few books she's been really against Rand and acting more like the typical image of an Aes Sedai. She's becoming very judgemental and seems to act like she knows better, even when she clearly doesn't (like when she tries to comfort Aviendha, her guesses at why she's upset are often way off target). I just want to know if she's going to continue on this path. I'd like to brace myself for it if she is.

 

I'm trying not to hate, seriously, but I am getting seriously annoyed with Egwene at this point in the series and I'd honestly like to know, without spoilers if possible, whether or not she will continue to develop in this direction. I'm also very aware that there have probably been other threads on stuff like this (there usually are for book series) but looking through them might end up spoiling things for me.

 

She gets more and more annoying.Sorry.

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She's annoying yes, there are times when I hate reading any scene with her in it. The biggest flaw I see in her is her "face" she rarely ever shows or says what she truly feels and that to me makes her very difficult to actually like or relate to, this is in most of the tower trained people. But then again my favourite AS tend to be Cadsuane, Moiraine and Nynaeve, with Verin sometimes as well, because even though they can be harsh, manipulative and irritating they arent afraid of making mistakes, they do what they think is right regardless of the WT.

 

Egwene is the most adaptive person in the books, when she sets her mind on something she will become that something. When shes an apprentice WO shes an almost perfect one when she isnt putting her own arrogance beliefs first, but even then she really is doing what a real Wise One would do, because that is their goal to make the woman strong enough to do what she believes in and not to request confirmation from others.

 

When she becomes an Aes Sedai... well there you have it, a perfect Aes Sedai by modern standards is not exactly likeable but its a damned sight better than a lot of the other Aes Sedai she could mirror.

 

Like her or hate her, she is probably the only one other than Rand to really go through the same degree of pressure, they both go through a crucible, Egwene chose hers whilst Rand did not, but part of Egwenes choice is that she will never allow herself to be a pawn again(re: a'dam or anything else)

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I think she improves later on, she's not nearly as annoying in books 9/10 + as she was around the middle of the series. But on the flip side, Elayne takes her place as the single most rage inducing character in the series.

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Oh, no no no. This is definitely not about Elayne, nor about AS deficiencies. Let's not derail an Egwene-thread (though I'm sure we're up to the task), 'k?

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Eggy becomes a roller coaster ride after this point. Sometimes you will think she is awesome and then you will want to bale fire her the next. I do agree with elayne being a more consistent rage target after this

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Egwene is an alpha female with none of the self doubt or humility that another potential alpha female like Nyn to keep her more humble. She's also so young that she has little of the experience to temper her drive, ambition, and skill like Cads or Moi.

 

An example of where this makes her come off looking absolutely terribly is early in LoC. You're almost there Japboix, and it's not a huge spoiler, but I'll tag it anyway.....

 

 

When she meets Nyn in TAR and nightmare rapes her and nearly makes her drink that nasty stuff....all to hide her own deceit. But worst of all, reflecting on her character, is how she comes away like a gleeful child, giddy that she was able to treat Nyn that way. Very few scenes in the whole series makes a main character look more petty or insecure

 

 

Granted, she has come a ways from that, which is exactly what redeems her character a bit. But the bottom line is that Egs is never a particularly likable person.....but she's probably a person you'd like in charge if the fit hits the shan.

 

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Egwene is the single most divisive character in the series without a doubt. Some people love her and some hate her. I do find it odd that you would comment on her hypocrisy this early on and say nothing of Nynaeve. Early in the series she is faaaar worse but perhaps it doesn't grate as much because it's played to comedic effect at times.

 

Bottom line for Egwene she comes to have an end goal in mind and let's nothing get in the way of that. She has great respect for her teachers, pushes for evolution/new ways of doing things, is not afraid to admit mistakes and is always looking to grow. She drinks a bit too much of the AS kool aid for my liking as things go along but she continuously works for the greater good and does what she thinks best for the world as it marches towards TG. That said I have a hunch that your feelings will not change on the topic.

I know Nynaeve is hypocritical as well, but the point I'm at is where she starts to see that she actually is hypocritical and does try to change, albeit slowly, and so I'm holding judgement on her for the moment. My problem with Egwene was that she seems to have gotten more arrogant as it's come along. I liked her in the beginning. Then she started blaming Rand for random things that had me scratching my head. Like the one time Aviendha got mad at him (during the phase where she was coming to terms with the vision from Rhuidean) and Egwene told him to stop aggravating her, despite the fact that Rand actually hadn't done anything.

 

I didn't intend for this thread to get a lot of views, just wanted to know what I was in for. It was just how quickly Egwene seemed to act like a full Aes Sedai, despite the fact that she hasn't even been raised yet, that bothered me. As a side note, are there going to be a lot of characters like that? I saw above that Elayne is going to get annoying later on.

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Reading books about perfect characters would get boring, no?

I can take imperfection. I don't like characters who blame others for no real reason, especially when they're supposed to be good guys.

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Reading books about perfect characters would get boring, no?

I can take imperfection. I don't like characters who blame others for no real reason, especially when they're supposed to be good guys.

 

I've always been a fan of Egwene, flaws and all, even up to now. That said, I don't think your opinion of her will be changing. But she's a character that encourages much discussion. I think one element of good stories is when the protagonists themselves are at odds with each other instead of being in agreement and on the same 'team' from start to finish. Egwene's known Rand her whole life. Even if she was wrong, from what I remember of the situation, while she did make an assumption, thinking Rand had somehow aggravated Avi seems like a reasonable conclusion. Rand is also somewhat clueless himself... and Avi's situation is a little complicated, in ways that neither Eggy or Rand understand.

Edited by Agitel

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Well, if you happen to think about it, Rand is the ultimate upstart. He's been acting like he's all that since pretty much Fal Dara (if for a totally different reason, then). But as early as Tear he's been threatening people with death to simply get them to obey him (despicable people, but still). RJ did a great job of making us empathize with him to the extent that we're more than willing to dismiss all of that, using the exact same excuses he uses himself. For me, at least, it took KoD and TGS to finally hold Rand accountable for all he's been doing all of that time.

 

But then, that doesn't mean I like him any less for it. If anything, I feel for him more, for the way he practically loses himself under the weight of responsibility.

 

Back to the issue at hand, Egwene does come across as mightily arrogant. That's because she is. It's her MO to act as if she's already everything she hopes to be. However, it's also her MO to hope to be whatever is best and most inspiring in her surroundings (a Wisdom like Nynaeve, then an AS like Moiraine, then Green Ajah to fight the Shadow, then a Wise One (the list goes on, but I'll stop here to avoid spoilers). Basically, she's big on "fake it 'till you make it".

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Reading books about perfect characters would get boring, no?

 

The tricky thing about Egwene's "flaw" is that it's lack of compassion. Often, character flaws make a character more human, and easier to relate to, but Egwene's flaw makes her less human and harder to relate to. Real people don't have Egwene's lack of compassion unless something really significant is responsible: severe personality disorder, fanaticism for some grand ideal, whatever. Egwene doesn't have any of those problems. We could call her an AS fanatic, but really she's just partisan; we have her PoV and she doesn't think like a fanatic. She's level-headed and progressive, but the compassion just isn't there. Is that a flawed character, or is it unrealistic psychology?

 

So the the OP, I say you might later be impressed by some of Egwene's accomplishments. She can be clever and magnanimous. But there's always going to be a bizarre lack of compassion from her.

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Egwene does not have a lack of compassion. We see her show it a number of times throughout the entire series. True she embraces here role and goes on to make tough decisions but that is far from a lack of compassion.

 

I also find it weird when people get so indignant about some her actions and could care less about say Moiraine and Lan contemplating murdering someone in a village because they knew she was AS(in a way that shows they had done it before). One of the things about Egwene is a fair amount of the time she is held to a totally different set of standards than every other character.

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