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Not In The Book Discussion (Full Spoilers)

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Androl's use of gateways seems to be unique to him, and we did see him, at least, using them offensively on the battlefield.

 

I'm okay with Talmanes living if only because he established himself as such a badass in the Prologue that I didn't want him to die! I like to think that he is one of the "bodyguards" for Olver as he wanders off to dispose of the Horn of Valere, and that the two of them will get into plenty of adventures together. :)

Yes, but once Androl shows it off, it should be a major weapon in the arsenal.

I'm not sure that it could have been with anyone for else. For anyone else, the amount of the OP it takes to make a gateway is prohibitive. You can generally do a LOT more damage with other things for the same ultimate OP cost than from a gateway. Androl is special, unique, in that his ability to make gateways is, for whatever reason, a Talent, not relative to his strength in the OP. Anyone else tries that, they get a couple out at most. And they were used quite effectively, by Talmanes with the Dragons.

This.

 

Also any other Channeler (unless another has a Talent) needs to stay put for at least an hour before they can open a Gateway. Androl is also (so far) unique because he needs a lot less time to do it. Standing still in a battle is going to be hard.

 

But Androl was at the last battle...so couldn't he have dropped more lava on people himself? People in the series have alwasy seemed to be remarkably unimaginative and inconsistent in their use of the OP.

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Lini never met Elayne.A real shame.

 

Morgase was mentioned 3 times in total. Come on, she was a pretty major character...

 

Way too little Moiraine and Nynaeve. Why did Moiraine come back at all? To remind people who should've known about them already the wording of the Dragon prophesies? That's pretty much all she did this book besides sitting and watching Rand fighting the DO. And what about the reactions of those who cared for her about her comeback? We barely saw this at all.

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the Ogier meeting witht the Seanchan Ogier.  I thought we were going to see the two groups meeting

We see them together on the battlefield.  I would assume that the two groups simply came together at some point and wordlessly opted to work alongside each other (Ogier seem to be of few words when in battle).

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Something i didnt quite understand:

 

1. Was it just me, or did Demandred seem a wee bit looney?  From LoC i took him as a serious, business like dude that wore lace and black suits.  The Shara wild guy seemed kinda crazy with big eyes.

 

2.  Demandred asks himself who the heck is this swordsman, and he thinks "Asmodean?"  Doesnt he know big A got offed?  And when Rand was sparring in the waste with Lan - I swear Asmodean claimed not to know the sword. 

 

3.  How did Eqwene know Moridin?

1. Aside from his ranting at Lews Therin on the battlefield, he seemed to be a pretty level-headed guy.  Even his ranting might have served a strategic purpose.  Demandred knew that Lews Therin hated to see others fight for him, and that he might be able to goad him into a direct confrontation.  He also knew that he would have an advantage over Rand in a head-to-head fight, particularly if Sakarnen is the sa'angreal that was allegedly stronger than Callandor.  The rantings would further potentially boost the morale of his own troops ("Our leader is bold enough to face the Dragon Reborn!") and demoralize the forces of the Light ("The Dragon isn't here to save us from this horrible monster!"). 

 

2. This one struck me as a bit off, if just because Demandred should have known that Asmodean wasn't handy with a sword, although I suppose that could just be ignorance on his own part.  As far as suspecting that Asmodean was still alive, Demandred has been told that he is dead, but has not seen the body himself.  He seems the type that would doubt facts that he cannot verify himself.  In addition, we have seen that the Forsaken are fairly dismissive of the talents of anyone not from the Age of Legends.  Indeed, Demandred thinks to himself that the enemy commander must be Lews Therin, because no one else would have the centuries of experience necessary to face him in combat.  Likewise, he assumes that no modern man could be as skilled as Lan, and that he must therefore be someone from his own time. 

 

3. Rand knows who Moridin is, and I assume he made that information known to others.

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Another thing that struck me as a bit off, and maybe someone else has already mentioned it, but it seemed like the good guys had a knowledge of the True Power when previously they hadn't even known of its existence.

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Maybe I missed it, but did we ever find out how Mat managed the resurrecting villagers at the river source? Last mention I can find of it is page 863, when Mat runs into Grady before heading off to Shayol Ghul. Grady asks what the deal was and Mat blows him off saying he'll explain later. Is there some hinting or explanation of what exactly happened that I didn't pick up?

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Maybe I missed it, but did we ever find out how Mat managed the resurrecting villagers at the river source? Last mention I can find of it is page 863, when Mat runs into Grady before heading off to Shayol Ghul. Grady asks what the deal was and Mat blows him off saying he'll explain later. Is there some hinting or explanation of what exactly happened that I didn't pick up?

 

I don't think that it was spelled out, but the villagers always ended up in their beds in the morning.  So, they could be killed one day, wake up the next, and be gateway'd in.

 

Or, were you asking about how did Matt arrange it?  That I don't know.

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I don't think that it was spelled out, but the villagers always ended up in their beds in the morning.  So, they could be killed one day, wake up the next, and be gateway'd in.

 

I missed that entirely. Where was that? Was it just an oddity of the Pattern fraying?

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I don't think that it was spelled out, but the villagers always ended up in their beds in the morning.  So, they could be killed one day, wake up the next, and be gateway'd in.

 

I missed that entirely. Where was that? Was it just an oddity of the Pattern fraying?

 

Hinderstap was the village that the Band of the Red Hand encounters in TGS Chapter 27/28.

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Hinderstap was the village that the Band of the Red Hand encounters in TGS Chapter 27/28.

 

Boy, no wonder I had no idea what was going on. Thanks for clearing that up, Jnai and dreadlord.

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Hinderstap was the village that the Band of the Red Hand encounters in TGS Chapter 27/28.

 

Boy, no wonder I had no idea what was going on. Thanks for clearing that up, Jnai and dreadlord.

Did you...not read TGS?

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Well, to be fair linking some undead there, with an incident from TGS (you know, 3 years ago), that many people would rather forget, is understandable.

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Well, Brandon said it required a little bit of rewriting, so probably not Romanda. It could be Bela, because that's the type of revelation and the way BS would make it. It's almost certainly not Egwene as people had suggested because that would have been a major rewrite.

 

Siuane maybe?

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the things i really wanted to be in there but were not

 

1. loial addressing the stump and having his shining moment as he convinces the ogier to unite with humankind.

2. afterglow, there was no bloody afterglow.

I think that, between the way-forward ter'angreal; Min's vision of Logain's glory which no man had seen before (which hadn't happened yet at the end of the book, but which you could see the start of), Rand's vision in his battle with the Dark One, and all of the other prophecies, we have more than enough information to piece together what happens afterwards.

 

I never read Tolkien, but watching the last Lord of the Rings movie, the one thing that I absolutely could not stand is that the movie just would not end. It should have ended with the ring being destroyed. Then there was the seen with everybody bowing to the hobbits, and that was nice, but absolutely everything after that was superfluous bordering on obnoxious. It completely ruined the movie. I'm glad they didn't throw in a bunch of awfulness here like that.

You never read the book so that's why you didn't like the movie ending? Read the book then. Granted youll hate it for different reasons. If they would've made the book 100% accurate it would've had about nine more beings but everyone fulfilling to some plot point.

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I doubt Tinkers have the talent of Singing anymore. While other people could've had the talent, in the AoL, the Singing was mostly limited to the Aiel and the Ogier. That implies some sort of genetic component. After thousands years of mixed blood, it seems unlikely they would have the Talent.

 

In my view the Tinkers and the Aiel are the same people. They are the people the Aiel used to be, but the Tinkers held to the the Jenn Aiel way of life. I guess we have to draw our own conclusions that eventually the song would have gained momentum with the Aiel as the Keepers of the Dragon's Peace, along with the Oglier and others. It was a shame that that story line wasnt elaborated more though, just that one mention (in a joke by Mat - I think) of Rand singing and the plants growing around him.

 

The message is that the Dragon and his song brings life and peace to the world, and that is integral to the Dragon having peace and life within himself - that is what defeated the DO. My guess is that as the earth was restored to health the singing gifts would have also been restored. It really wouldnt have been difficult to throw that in there somewhere....Rand walking along, the land blossoms around him, the Tinkers hear him and know instinctively that he is singing the 'song of life' which would resonate with them because of their beliefs? Anyhow.....disappointing :(

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About how the Seals were stolen:

TOR Edition, Pg267

He did not fear revealing these things. He had touch the True Power, and so the Dark One knew his heart. There were no surprises here, at least nothing that should have been a surprise.

 

This is the scene Rand opens himself to Mierin in a dreamshard. Brandon said there would be consequences for Rand's TP usage. This is it. It's how the DO knew where the Seals were. He probably sent Taim to retrieve them. Nothing exciting.

No the question is how did Logain get them back.  If Taim had them on the battle field, who does Logain have them before the Egwene and Taim fight

 

Yes, my question too....

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Actually, Androl steals them from Taim, then passes them on to Logain. 

 

When did that happen? Could you let me know the page number please? I looked back to that and couldnt see it....not saying it isnt there but I couldnt find it in my first read. It didnt mention Androl stealing the Seals back.

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It wasn't directly stated, but Androl managed it when Taim let him get so close.

 

or at least that it what I got out of it.  The seals aren't very big and Androl can make a gateway in an instant, Taim probably didn't even notice them being moved out of his pocket.

 

Edit:  I stand corrected, it was indeed stated.  This is what I get for reading too fast.

Edited by Torn Shadow

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